'Visions and dreams'

[John81]

A sense of personal guidance, however real, and authoritative revelation, as in the complete Scriptures, are two rather different things, I think.

Blessings.

When we seek God's direction we are not seeking after "a sense of personal guidance", we are seeking God's will for our lives. God's revealed will for our lives will never contradict Scripture so the two are never at odds as to which is authoritative.

[dantheman2]

You don't believe God calls people to certain vocations...or let's someone know who to marry...or warns of danger...or installs or rejects leaders...or answers the myriad of prayers asking for wisdom, direction and guidance for a plethora of life issues...etc.?

Certainly the Bible teaches that he works through his providence but the Bible certainly teaches that he does not speak to us today as he did with those inspired writers/prophets/etc.

[John81]

Certainly the Bible teaches that he works through his providence but the Bible certainly teaches that he does not speak to us today as he did with those inspired writers/prophets/etc.

Just how did God speak to each of the inspired writers, prophets, apostles and others?

[dantheman2]

Just how did God speak to each of the inspired writers, prophets, apostles and others?

Personally throught the Spirit. He speaks to us now through his word.

[Seth Doty]

Personally throught the Spirit. He speaks to us now through his word.

I don't think you would get any argument that God speaks through the scriptures, but are you saying that God does NOT also speak to Christians on a personal level through the Spirit? If that were the case what would be the point of the Holy Spirit indwelling believers? Perhaps I am misunderstanding what your saying...

[dantheman2]

I don't think you would get any argument that God speaks through the scriptures, but are you saying that God does NOT also speak to Christians on a personal level through the Spirit? If that were the case what would be the point of the Holy Spirit indwelling believers? Perhaps I am misunderstanding what your saying...

I am saying that God does not speak "personally" through the spirit today. He speaks through his word. It is all we need according to Peter. All leaves no room for anything else.

[Seth Doty]

I am saying that God does not speak "personally" through the spirit today. He speaks through his word. It is all we need according to Peter. All leaves no room for anything else.

I suppose I disagree with you then.

"John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

"John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

"Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"

"1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."

I am curious what you think the role of the Holy Spirit is then if you do not think he speaks to Christians on a personal level.

[dantheman2]

I suppose I disagree with you then.

"John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

"John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come."

"Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"

"1 John 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us."

I am curious what you think the role of the Holy Spirit is then if you do not think he speaks to Christians on a personal level.

The first two passages are clearly speaking not of us today but of the Appostles and other inspired individuals. Not one of these passages teach that any Christian is inspired or has the HS personally speaking to him today.

[John81]

I for one am very thankful for the personal guidance the Holy Ghost has blessed me with over the years.

[Seth Doty]

The first two passages are clearly speaking not of us today but of the Appostles and other inspired individuals. Not one of these passages teach that any Christian is inspired or has the HS personally speaking to him today.

You don't think so? then what is the point of the Holy Spirit also being called the "comforter"? How could he be the "comforter" without speaking to Christians? Even if we were to throw out personal experience I would say there is overwhelming biblical evidence that the Holy Spirit does speak and lead people directly today though obviously never in a way that would contradict the bible. All you have presented to support your position that he does not is a misunderstanding of a couple of verses in peter. If a Christian never has experienced the Holy Spirit guiding him that would seem to indicate a problem somewhere. I will repeat and rephrase a question I asked earlier. If you do not believe the Holy Spirit speaks to Christians today what is his purpose in indwelling the believer and what role does he fill?

"John 14:16-26 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

"John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

I maintain the purpose of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer is to convict of sin, open ones understanding of the scriptures, and provide guidance in areas where the scriptures may not provide a detailed answer of the will of God. All of those roles require that he speak to the believer directly. Edited August 7, 2011 by Seth-Doty

[dantheman2]

You don't think so? then what is the point of the Holy Spirit also being called the "comforter"? How could he be the "comforter" without speaking to Christians? Even if we were to throw out personal experience I would say there is overwhelming biblical evidence that the Holy Spirit does speak and lead people directly today though obviously never in a way that would contradict the bible. All you have presented to support your position that he does not is a misunderstanding of a couple of verses in peter. If a Christian never has experienced the Holy Spirit guiding him that would seem to indicate a problem somewhere. I will repeat and rephrase a question I asked earlier. If you do not believe the Holy Spirit speaks to Christians today what is his purpose in indwelling the believer and what role does he fill?

"John 14:16-26 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

"John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me."

I maintain the purpose of the Holy Spirit in the life of a believer is to convict of sin, open ones understanding of the scriptures, and provide guidance in areas where the scriptures may not provide a detailed answer of the will of God. All of those roles require that he speak to the believer directly.

I did not say that the HS is not the comforter. The question is who was being spoken to. Who was the comforter being sent to? What purpose was the comforter sent for? Context, not pretext.

[Seth Doty]

I did not say that the HS is not the comforter. The question is who was being spoken to. Who was the comforter being sent to? What purpose was the comforter sent for? Context, not pretext.

Suppose you answer your own questions and provide scriptures as to why you think your view is correct. I already expressed what I believe the purpose and role of the Holy Spirit is today and you apparently do not agree with it so please explain your position.

[dantheman2]

Suppose you answer your own questions and provide scriptures as to why you think your view is correct. I already expressed what I believe the purpose and role of the Holy Spirit is today and you apparently do not agree with it so please explain your position.

I can't give you much of an answer to question. The subject of the HS is one which I need to study. There are certain things about the Spirit which I do know and am confident to affirm. I know that the Bible tells us that the HS indwells us. The Bible does tell us that we are sealed by the HS. The Bible does not say that we have miraculous abilities today nor does it say that the HS opperates directly upon us today.

[Seth Doty]

I can't give you much of an answer to question. The subject of the HS is one which I need to study. There are certain things about the Spirit which I do know and am confident to affirm. I know that the Bible tells us that the HS indwells us. The Bible does tell us that we are sealed by the HS. The Bible does not say that we have miraculous abilities today nor does it say that the HS opperates directly upon us today.

I appreciate the honesty. I would urge you to study out the role of the Holy Spirit today as it is an important issue for a Christian. I would be the first to admit that there are many groups like the "pentecostals" that greatly abuse and misrepresent the role and working of the Holy Spirit, but their error in that direction does not justify falling into error in the opposite direction by denying that he teaches or works in the lives of believers at all. The working of the Holy Spirit is not at all as the "faith healers" or what not on the television would portray it, but he does work and speak to believers today.

[John81]

I appreciate the honesty. I would urge you to study out the role of the Holy Spirit today as it is an important issue for a Christian. I would be the first to admit that there are many groups like the "pentecostals" that greatly abuse and misrepresent the role and working of the Holy Spirit, but their error in that direction does not justify falling into error in the opposite direction by denying that he teaches or works in the lives of believers at all. The working of the Holy Spirit is not at all as the "faith healers" or what not on the television would portray it, but he does work and speak to believers today.

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