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IM4given

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Independent, Fundamental, Premellinial, Militant, Baptists ???

Is that what I've attached myself to?

Great! I like that in a fellowship.

Ian Paisley, once said with some sincerity, "FunnyMentalPeople."

I believe it was Billy Kelly or Rod Bell who said, "The main stream religions just pass us by."

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I'll have to disagree with this line.
"Awarding war veterans with higher positions in the church, such as being deacons "
I don't recall anything in my KJV 1611 Bible of the qualifacations of a deacon to be a war veteran.

Other than that I think that they did a pretty good job.


Bob

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
I'll have to disagree with this line.
"Awarding war veterans with higher positions in the church, such as being deacons "
I don't recall anything in my KJV 1611 Bible of the qualifacations of a deacon to be a war veteran.

Other than that I think that they did a pretty good job.


Bob


Hmm seems like a standard practice to me - after all War Veterans worked hard to preserve our religious freedom, did they not? I don't think it is so much as as a "qualification" as it is an honor bestowed upon them , a way of saying thank you for the sacrafices that the soldiers have made.
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Hmm seems like a standard practice to me - after all War Veterans worked hard to preserve our religious freedom, did they not? I don't think it is so much as as a "qualification" as it is an honor bestowed upon them , a way of saying thank you for the sacrafices that the soldiers have made.


As long as they meet the qualifications in the pastoral epistles, I have no problem with honoring them in this way. I don't believe I would ask my pastor to wait until one was available if we needed a replacement/addition. :smile
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I agree that being a deacon is an honor, but not just beacause that he is a war veteran. As long as the man that is being nominated for the position is qualified by what the Bible says are the requirements of a deacon, then it doesn't make any difference if he's a war veteran or not. You can't just elect a man to an office in the church just because you want to say "thank you" for defending our faith and our country. That is unbiblical.
Whether it's common practice or not, any church that does not adhere to what the Bible says are the requirements of church office is not a true Bible believing church. The Bible is vey plain in what the requirements are for pastors and deacons should be. They are very serious and important offices to hold.

Bob

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
I agree that being a deacon is an honor, but not just beacause that he is a war veteran. As long as the man that is being nominated for the position is qualified by what the Bible says are the requirements of a deacon, then it doesn't make any difference if he's a war veteran or not. You can't just elect a man to an office in the church just because you want to say "thank you" for defending our faith and our country. That is unbiblical.
Whether it's common practice or not, any church that does not adhere to what the Bible says are the requirements of church office is not a true Bible believing church. The Bible is vey plain in what the requirements are for pastors and deacons should be. They are very serious and important offices to hold.

Bob


okay I agree with you on that - if two men are equally qualified by Biblical standards to be a deacon and one is a veteran and one is not a veteran - then I think the preference ought to go to the one who is a veteran. I do not think just being a veteran is enough to qualify for the position. Maybe you ought to modify the wikipage to clarify that point. :amen:

It is sad to say, but most churches now days are predominately women and children, and it is tough to find enough men to fill the roles as deacon, period. :pray
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Great article on the IFB's from Wiki. Thanks, Janet! :thumb

I have a question, though, pertaining to music. What is ragtime? And, what are the organs that they are talking about? Also, they mentioned some other things that I have never heard. I guess my church is not in favor of Southern Gospel to that extent. LOL.

P.S. ~ I also agree with the other point that was brought up. Good explanations, folks! :-)

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

This was one of the links that was given as an example of Gospel music found in most IFB churches -my church has wonderful music such as this
(please also note the absence of bongo drums :cool )

[tube]M0njsHgAGBA[/tube]

and another!

[tube]XzsI5y9rbTI[/tube]

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For some reason I cannot see the link--- IM. My PC system does this sometimes. I dunno? It is the same way with U-Tube videos---I can't see them, either. :lol:

BTW, I can't stand "Bongo drums." LOL.

P.S. ~ I don't question that it is wrong, at all. I just really don't know what it is. :lol

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

IAM4given wrote:

if two men are equally qualified by Biblical standards to be a deacon and one is a veteran and one is not a veteran - then I think the preference ought to go to the one who is a veteran.



No, the preference should go to whom the Holy Spirit leads. Not to whom we think that it should go to.

Look in Acts 1:15-26
15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Now, look at verse 24 especially, It says that they prayed to the Lord, that He would show whom He wanted.
When they cast their lots, (or as we do today in conducting church business....they voted) the Lord chose Matthias.
Just where do we as members of the church, think that we can elect someone to a church office, without following the Lord's leading?

If the Lord has led the church to elect a veteran to hold office then so be it. BUT, if the Lord leads to someone else being elected, and the church does contrary to the Lord's leading, then that church is not right with the Lord, and the Lord will hold the pastor accountable.
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I think that whoever wrote that did a pretty gob of explaining IFB! :clap:


I'd have to disagree, as I've already detailed on the other forum. These attributes might describe the "stereotypical" IFB church, but they sure don't describe mine, or any of the ones I've attended. I would not be a part of a church with all of these attributes, because I do not agree with a number of them.
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IAM4given wrote:


No, the preference should go to whom the Holy Spirit leads. Not to whom we think that it should go to.

Look in Acts 1:15-26
15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Now, look at verse 24 especially, It says that they prayed to the Lord, that He would show whom He wanted.
When they cast their lots, (or as we do today in conducting church business....they voted) the Lord chose Matthias.
Just where do we as members of the church, think that we can elect someone to a church office, without following the Lord's leading?

If the Lord has led the church to elect a veteran to hold office then so be it. BUT, if the Lord leads to someone else being elected, and the church does contrary to the Lord's leading, then that church is not right with the Lord, and the Lord will hold the pastor accountable.



Great scripture postings, rwwilson. Very correct, when you are speaking of "cast their lots." :amen:

"Awarding war veterans with higher positions in the church, such as being deacons "

I think that Wiki doesn't know about all IFB churches in the country. One of my deacons is a "war veteran"---the other is not: however, we have plenty of "war veterans" from all the wars, in my IFB church. :thumb

A good article all in all, for me---though. :-)
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I'd have to disagree that IFBs 'originated in the American South.' And their description of the music service sounds more like the 'praise bands' that we are supposedly shunning!

Candelelight, electric organs are the instruments used in most small churches nowadays that still have organs. They are the 'cheap' alternative to pipe organs, which are expensive and require huge amounts of space. Ragtime is an early 20th century music style (think Scott Joplin's 'The Entertainer) which was a precursor to jazz and is marked by its heavy syncompation. It's not rock music, and people that eschew rock might put up with ragtime. I would personally avoid attending a church that used that style music.

I find the heavy emphasis on 'IFBs use Southern Gospel music' in this article to be rather interesting -- and, from my perspective, incorrect!

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Thanks, Saylan. I agree totally with your post. Neither of my IFB's (past or current) would promote this.

I know what "Jazz" is and I have heard it before. I have heard the name "Ragtime" but, if I have heard it in the past---it is gone from my brain.

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Hey - I am not the one who wrote that wiki page, I just ran across it this morning and thought it was a very good article. If that is not your church and that is not how you do things, then maybe you are not IFB, I don't know? That is between you, your pastor and God. IFB is not a big broad spectrum of beliefs as some seem to think that it is. If anything it tends to be rather exclusive - ie it excludes those people who want to live like the world, such as those who believe drinking alcohol on social occassions is okay,or eating in restaurants that serve alcohol is okay, or women who insist on cross dressing as men wearing pants and chopping off their hair, etc. If you think that is too harsh and too judgemental, then perhaps you are not IFB? I happen to be an IFB Baptist - "yarn died and a mile wide" as my old preacher used to say - from the top of my head to the tips of my toes.

It does me good to see that there are still a few truly IFB members left on this board, but that number seems to be shrinking by the day!

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Hey - I am not the one who wrote that wiki page' date=' I just ran across it this morning and thought it was a very good article.[/quote']


I know, Janet. I thought it was a VERY good article, all in all. :thumb

I just didn't know what the music was about.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I recall in the church I grew up in there was a plaque with a list of names of war veterans under it, both those who had been killed as well as those who had come home alive. I believe all it amounted to was recognizing those who served, living and dead, who fought for the freedoms we enjoy in America.

Actually today that be few that think of veterans, both living and dead, as they once did. Yes even respect for those who truly served their country is not there. Oh many do it with their lips, but few do so with their hearts and deeds, we all know about lip service when there is nothing behind it.

I think most any community will have at least one veteran, maybe more, that the war took a bad toll on and they can not function in society. Just take a look at how he is treated and or talked about and you can get a good idea of what I'm referring to.

There is something about the horrors of war, seeing you best friends and or even enemies killed, laying on the ground dead, maybe with their bodies torn to pieces, that leaves the minds of some where they cannot function. I know of about 3 or 4 Vietnam veterans that if this group. Most people look down on them and say, they ought to get their act together, they have no right to be that may, after all there is those in our mist who suffered the same things and they're seem to be alright. I promise you, even those veterans that seem OK, if you can get them to open up you will find that life for them is hard to deal with because of those wars days and the nightmares they live with.

The Vietnam Days forever change the outlook of which America has on those who served our country in the armed service and there be few that are truly thankful for the great sacrifices they made and show it in their deeds.

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Hey - I am not the one who wrote that wiki page, I just ran across it this morning and thought it was a very good article. If that is not your church and that is not how you do things, then maybe you are not IFB, I don't know? That is between you, your pastor and God. IFB is not a big broad spectrum of beliefs as some seem to think that it is. If anything it tends to be rather exclusive - ie it excludes those people who want to live like the world, such as those who believe drinking alcohol on social occassions is okay,or eating in restaurants that serve alcohol is okay, or women who insist on cross dressing as men wearing pants and chopping off their hair, etc. If you think that is too harsh and too judgemental, then perhaps you are not IFB? I happen to be an IFB Baptist - "yarn died and a mile wide" as my old preacher used to say - from the top of my head to the tips of my toes.

It does me good to see that there are still a few truly IFB members left on this board, but that number seems to be shrinking by the day!


Who are you responding to? That article is one person's description of one church. Not concurring precisely with all aspects of that description does not make one cease to be an IFB. My church agrees with all the Biblical doctrines espoused in that article, and we practice standards of Biblical separation. Our standards are in some ways stricter than those described in this article; however, we do not practice congregational silent prayer, we do not have a choir and we do not use Southern Gospel in our worship services. In other words, we do not 'do things' exactly as this aricle demands. Does this disqualify us from calling ourselves an IFB church?

Independent -- Individual churches governed by God's Word and congregational vote that shun hierarchical authority outside
the local church.
Fundamental -- Holding to the fundamental doctrines of the Christian faith as described by a literal application of the Bible
Baptist -- Practicing church distinctives historically held by groups of Christian believers calling themselves Baptists.
B -- Bible as sole authority
A -- Autonomy of the local church
P -- Priesthood of every believer
T -- Two church officers: pastor/bishop and deacon
I -- Individual soul liberty
S -- Separation: individual, congregationally, and church/state
T -- Two church ordinances (as opposed to sacraments): believer's baptism by immersion and the Lord's Supper

Disclaimer: this list is only a man's description of the Biblical church and may be fallible. Run all points by Scripture before agreeing/disagreeing. (Sorry, I don't have my Bible with me right now.)
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I recall in the church I grew up in there was a plaque with a list of names of war veterans under it, both those who had been killed as well as those who had come home alive. I believe all it amounted to was recognizing those who served, living and dead, who fought for the freedoms we enjoy in America.

Actually today that be few that think of veterans, both living and dead, as they once did. Yes even respect for those who truly served their country is not there. Oh many do it with their lips, but few do so with their hearts and deeds, we all know about lip service when there is nothing behind it.

I think most any community will have at least one veteran, maybe more, that the war took a bad toll on and they can not function in society. Just take a look at how he is treated and or talked about and you can get a good idea of what I'm referring to.

There is something about the horrors of war, seeing you best friends and or even enemies killed, laying on the ground dead, maybe with their bodies torn to pieces, that leaves the minds of some where they cannot function. I know of about 3 or 4 Vietnam veterans that if this group. Most people look down on them and say, they ought to get their act together, they have no right to be that may, after all there is those in our mist who suffered the same things and they're seem to be alright. I promise you, even those veterans that seem OK, if you can get them to open up you will find that life for them is hard to deal with because of those wars days and the nightmares they live with.

The Vietnam Days forever change the outlook of which America has on those who served our country in the armed service and there be few that are truly thankful for the great sacrifices they made and show it in their deeds.



Great post, Pastor Jerry! :amen:
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
I recall in the church I grew up in there was a plaque with a list of names of war veterans under it, both those who had been killed as well as those who had come home alive. I believe all it amounted to was recognizing those who served, living and dead, who fought for the freedoms we enjoy in America.

Actually today that be few that think of veterans, both living and dead, as they once did. Yes even respect for those who truly served their country is not there. Oh many do it with their lips, but few do so with their hearts and deeds, we all know about lip service when there is nothing behind it.

I think most any community will have at least one veteran, maybe more, that the war took a bad toll on and they can not function in society. Just take a look at how he is treated and or talked about and you can get a good idea of what I'm referring to.

There is something about the horrors of war, seeing you best friends and or even enemies killed, laying on the ground dead, maybe with their bodies torn to pieces, that leaves the minds of some where they cannot function. I know of about 3 or 4 Vietnam veterans that if this group. Most people look down on them and say, they ought to get their act together, they have no right to be that may, after all there is those in our mist who suffered the same things and they're seem to be alright. I promise you, even those veterans that seem OK, if you can get them to open up you will find that life for them is hard to deal with because of those wars days and the nightmares they live with.

The Vietnam Days forever change the outlook of which America has on those who served our country in the armed service and there be few that are truly thankful for the great sacrifices they made and show it in their deeds.


I know what you mean Bro. Jerry - Vietnam Vets have really been treated badly - mostly because of the harsh liberal media and Communists such as JAne Fonda who called them "baby killers" and worse! The men in those days were drafted into the military - they had no choice but to go and fight- and they fought very hard for the freedoms we have in America today. However, it seems that people and politicians are willingly giving up their freedoms and constitutional rights for the sake of "change" - so sometimes I wonder what our Military are fighting for anyways? I still say that all things equal Miitary personell and Vets deserve to be given preference - and if a church really prays about it I am sure God would lead them in that direction as well. Like that old hymn says "Onward Christian Soldiers, marching off to war..."
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