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What are your views on gambling?


IM4given

What are your views on gambling?  

6 members have voted

  1. 1. What are your views on gambling?

    • A) Since the word gambling is not specifically mentioned in the Bible, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas!
      0
    • B) I buy lottery tickets or play BINGO or have poker nights with my friends on a regular basis - what is so wrong with having a little fun?
      2
    • C) We go on Casino Cruises once in awhile, but not on a regular continual basis.
      0
    • D) I buy raffle tickets to win prizes for fund raisers occassionally - if it's for a good cause.
      1
    • D) Gambling is morally wrong.
      14
    • E) We believe that Christ Followers would never gamble, since the Bible teaches that "casting lots" is a sin against God.
      10


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I do not think we have had this discussion on this board (or if we did it was a really really long time ago!) So what are your views on gambling, and why do you believe as you do? I posted this in the IFB forum but since I have not gotten any comments I thought I would try again in the general forum. I am genuinely interested in your responses to this question.

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I had a little bit of trouble picking any one specific option. I think that gambling is very poor stewardship and an unwise use of money. I don't think raffle tickets are gambling if you are buying them with the intention of giving to an organization and not just to try to win money. Rather, it's more of a bonus to get the ticket. It's an effective way to get people to donate money to a good cause.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
I had a little bit of trouble picking any one specific option. I think that gambling is very poor stewardship and an unwise use of money. I don't think raffle tickets are gambling if you are buying them with the intention of giving to an organization and not just to try to win money. Rather' date=' it's more of a bonus to get the ticket. It's an effective way to get people to donate money to a good cause.[/quote']

Why not just donate to the organization instead of buying a ticket?
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I chose "D" because gambling is morally wrong. It is not being a wise steward of our money just as Kevin said in his post.

However, we do own several decks of cards that we occasionally play without gambling.

In Christ,
PreacherE

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I chose "D" because gambling is morally wrong. It is not being a wise steward of our money just as Kevin said in his post.

However, we do own several decks of cards that we occasionally play without gambling.

In Christ,
PreacherE

I enjoy playing cards with my friends and family, as well. We never use them for gambling. :smile
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
How about just "Gambling is morally wrong". That is an option I could pick that would cover the wide spectrum of gambling.

Cards and horses (and oodles of other objects as well) are used frequently for betting but neither cards nor horses are wrong in and of themselves.



Okay I fixed it. Is that better? :thumb
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Gambling is one of the devil's many playgrounds. Since he loves it, I want nothing to do with it or any of its forms. That's the flip-side of the concept that the Bible's intent, or description, of it is morally and spiritually evil. Since the Bible is clearly against it immediately I want to know why. With that in mind we can take a look at all of Biblical precepts and see an underlying intent to bring glory to God. Gambling does not do that.

I have a theory and it goes something like this:::::::::::

#1. Jesus said that no-one can serve God and Mammon.

#2. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, "Mammon". What or "Who" is that????????? I'm wondering if that might be the name of the demon that is in control of "Money-Lust". The reason that I say this is that one given to gambling develops the mental illness of supreme greed, wherein no amount of money is ever enough.. It seems that the mental illness of greed lends itself to a description of demonic influence.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
Gambling is one of the devil's many playgrounds. Since he loves it, I want nothing to do with it or any of its forms. That's the flip-side of the concept that the Bible's intent, or description, of it is morally and spiritually evil. Since the Bible is clearly against it immediately I want to know why. With that in mind we can take a look at all of Biblical precepts and see an underlying intent to bring glory to God. Gambling does not do that.

I have a theory and it goes something like this:::::::::::

#1. Jesus said that no-one can serve God and Mammon.

#2. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, "Mammon". What or "Who" is that????????? I'm wondering if that might be the name of the demon that is in control of "Money-Lust". The reason that I say this is that one given to gambling develops the mental illness of supreme greed, wherein no amount of money is ever enough.. It seems that the mental illness of greed lends itself to a description of demonic influence.


I live in a state where the Lottery is supposed to be used to help fund Education. I do not think that is true - I think it just makes a few people rich, by taking money from the ones who can least afford it. The reality is often that even when a person does win a lottery, it ruins their lives and makes them even more miserable. Yet there are lots of Christians around here who stand in line every one else to buy their scratch off tickets, and see no wrong in what they do.

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I voted against the issue on the ballot in November, I live in Ohio. They wanted a casino near Cincinnati.

I didn't make a selection from the choices above. It's just more leverage for Satan and I don't gamble.

Does anyone here have a 401K based on the stock market?

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Hmmm... I never thought of investing in the Stock Market as gambling, interesting idea though. I do not have any money so that high-finance stuff is beyond my range of knowledge!

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist
I live in a state where the Lottery is supposed to be used to help fund Education. I do not think that is true - I think it just makes a few people rich, by taking money from the ones who can least afford it. The reality is often that even when a person does win a lottery, it ruins their lives and makes them even more miserable. Yet there are lots of Christians around here who stand in line every one else to buy their scratch off tickets, and see no wrong in what they do.

1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

That is precisely what I had in mind when I posted what I did. Pennsylvania under Gov. Ed Rendell is just like that.
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There are Casinos here in Florida too - they offer "free cruises" to get you on their ships to gamble. There are a lot of Seniors who gamble like this for fun. There is a Seminole Reservation in Tampa that has a big Casino and BINGO hall. They use the money from that to fund their tribe. Most people see no wrong in making bets on sport events or horse races, or even flipping quarters or pitching pennies.

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  • Advanced Member

I haven't bought a lottery ticket in 23 yrs, wouldn't bet a blind man it's dark outside, and don't have enough money to be frivolous with it......came from Florida where the Lottery is almost deified.... my personal view and instruction to my congregation is, God didn't give you the ability to earn a living so you could be wasteful when so many are going without, in need of your benevolence and kindness. I don't think, me personally that is, that "being rich in good works, ready to distribute.... " gives me much room to toss that with which I've been entrusted as steward away on gambling - in any venue.

Used to be financial crime investigator....almost all of it I ever encountered involved greed and willingness to gamble to feed it.

But, thats redneck preacher opinion....and it wont buy you a cup, let alone one with some coffee in it! :Green

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Gambling is a real waste of money---and, only setting a person up to "get hooked." The devil loves this "addiction" as well. Something that starts out, as what one might think is innocent, is certainly going to get out of control. When Satan gets reign in this area---it is a serious problem. He is like "smoke under the door." When you let him creep in---he will. Gambling is this way.

BTW, even as an unsaved person---I knew that gambling was just throwing money away. It is a "high" that people have trouble with---beyond belief. I have no desire to participate in this type behavior.

They don't call Las Vegas "Sin City" for nothing. Praise God we have born-again Christians surrounding that area. :amen:

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Gambling is a real waste of money---and, only setting a person up to "get hooked." The devil loves this "addiction" as well. Something that starts out, as what one might think is innocent, is certainly going to get out of control. When Satan gets reign in this area---it is a serious problem. He is like "smoke under the door." When you let him creep in---he will. Gambling is this way.

BTW, even as an unsaved person---I knew that gambling was just throwing money away. It is a "high" that people have trouble with---beyond belief. I have no desire to participate in this type behavior.

:goodpost:

Although I didn't vote in the poll, I agree with those who say that gambling is unwise. I'm not sure about "morally wrong." Maybe it is. (I'd be interested to hear why some chose that option.) The only hesitation I have about that is that we "gamble" in other situations all the time. Someone mentioned the stock market, raffles and drawings, etc. The Christian school I grew up in had fund raisers that involved selling candy bars. Students who sold certain amounts of bars were entered in various drawings for prizes of all sizes. Those drawings were the highlights of our days. Now, I do see a difference between raffles and fund raisers and the kind of gambling that goes on in Vegas...but there are shades of gray here, IMO. Maybe a definition of gambling for the sake of discussion is needed. Here's dictionary.com's:

gam-ble? ?
verb, -bled, -bling, noun
?verb (used without object)
1. to play at any game of chance for money or other stakes.
2. to stake or risk money, or anything of value, on the outcome of something involving chance: to gamble on a toss of the dice.
?verb (used with object)
3. to lose or squander by betting (usually fol. by away): He gambled all his hard-earned money away in one night.
4. to wager or risk (money or something else of value): to gamble one's freedom.
5. to take a chance on; venture; risk: I'm gambling that our new store will be a success.
?noun
6. any matter or thing involving risk or hazardous uncertainty.
7. a venture in a game of chance for stakes, esp. for high stakes.


I'm not sure the main problem is that a person is "throwing money away." How many of us have exchanged money for entertainment like a board game, a half hour in the arcade, or a day at an amusement park? We have nothing to show for our money except for the fact that we had a good time. We basically "threw it away," if we're talking eternity here. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, necessarily.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Annie thanks for posting here. Here are some things you might want to consider:

What does the Bible have to say about gambling?

The Bible condemns covetousness and materialism.
The tenth commandment states:

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

For testimony?s sake and the love of the lost and your fellow Christian, you are not to covet.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

Honest work is commanded. Gambling encourages a something for nothing attitude.
Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

Gambling is addictive.
1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Expedient defined: "useful, proper, profitable." You are not to partake in anything that can be addicting.

You are supposed to work for what you get.
Proverbs 13:11 Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished: but he that gathereth by labour shall increase.

Ecclesiastes 5:10 He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity. 11 When goods increase, they are increased that eat them: and what good is there to the owners thereof, saving the beholding of them with their eyes? 12 The sleep of a labouring man is sweet, whether he eat little or much: but the abundance of the rich will not suffer him to sleep.

1 Timothy 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

There is grounds for wise investment of one?s wealth with a hope of sensible return for instance in a savings account, money market or maybe even the stock market.
Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

The accumulation of wealth through exploitation of others is condemned. The lottery is exploitation. Honest work and honest wages go together.

Everything you do is to be done to the glory of God.
1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

We are to separate ourselves from the ungodly.
2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

We are to separate ourselves from the ungodly. Judge for yourselves how you would rate Las Vegas, NV with the effects of gambling ? they have sown a culture of greed and exploitation.

The most convincing Bible proof is when Jesus hung dying on the cross. The Roman soldiers cared only for who would benefit from His loss. They cast lots to see who would get His clothing.

Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

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[quote="IM4given"]Annie thanks for posting here. Here are some things you might want to consider:

What does the Bible have to say about gambling?

[b]The Bible condemns covetousness and materialism. [/b]
The tenth commandment states:

Exodus 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

For testimony?s sake and the love of the lost and your fellow Christian, you are not to covet.

Romans 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

[b]Honest work is commanded. Gambling encourages a something for nothing attitude. [/b]
Ephesians 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

2 Thessalonians 3:10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat. 11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies. 12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.

[b]Gambling is addictive. [/b]
1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

Expedient defined: "useful, proper, profitable." You are not to partake in anything that can be addicting.
[b]
You are supposed to work for what you get. [/b]
Proverbs 13:11 Wealth gotten by vanity shall be diminished: but he that gathereth by labour shall increase.

Ecclesiastes 5:10 He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity. 11 When goods increase, they are increased that eat them: and what good is there to the owners thereof, saving the beholding of them with their eyes? 12 The sleep of a labouring man is sweet, whether he eat little or much: but the abundance of the rich will not suffer him to sleep.

1 Timothy 6:6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. 9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. 10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows. 11 But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

[b]There is grounds for wise investment of one?s wealth with a hope of sensible return for instance in a savings account, money market or maybe even the stock market.[/b]
Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

The accumulation of wealth through exploitation of others is condemned. The lottery is exploitation. Honest work and honest wages go together.

[b]Everything you do is to be done to the glory of God.[/b]
1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

[b]We are to separate ourselves from the ungodly. [/b]
2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

We are to separate ourselves from the ungodly. Judge for yourselves how you would rate Las Vegas, NV with the effects of gambling ? they have sown a culture of greed and exploitation.

The most convincing Bible proof is when Jesus hung dying on the cross. The Roman soldiers cared only for who would benefit from His loss. They cast lots to see who would get His clothing.

Matthew 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.[/quote]

:goodpost:

I agree with most of what you've written here. Certainly, some kinds of gambling, as addictive, self-oriented, and exploitative as they can be, have proven to be dangerous and deadly, spiritually as well as physically. What I'm not sure about is how investing money in the stock market is any different, in principle, than, say, playing penny poker with friends. Let me hasten to add that I've never played penny poker or anything else for money, unless you count playing Skee-ball for prizes. (How is that different?) And, what is different--in principle--about paying money to compete in an event? For example, each fall my daughters enter our town's fiddling competition. They each pay five dollars to enter. The winner of the contest (which was my daughter last year :clap: ) takes home a cash prize of twenty-five dollars. Second prize is fifteen dollars. OK...Let's look at what happened here: 1)Each contestant paid money to get into the competition. 2) The money was gathered together and used as prizes for those who won. Those who won did so at others' loss. How is this different in principle than what happens around a gaming table? Sure, one competition is peopled with fresh-faced fiddlers, and the other with hardened poker faces...but what is the real difference? (I'm asking, not insinuating.) Perhaps the difference is the skill level involved...I don't know. Are poker and blackjack all luck/chance? The fiddle competition has elements of both luck/chance and skill. (To clarify, I'm not saying I believe there is such a thing as luck/chance...I'm using that as a term for "that which is beyond the control of the contestant.")

To clarify again, I understand the addictive quality (and host of other problems) with some kinds of gambling. Of course, the Christian should steer far away from those activities. My questions have more to do with how what we do every day (enter competitions, Christian school fund raisers, stock market, etc.) is any different IN PRINCIPLE than the "gambling" that we're talking about. Those questions make it hard for me to say that all gambling, across the board, is sinful, or morally wrong. We "take risks" with money and other things all the time, on a daily basis, hoping, working, and praying for positive outcomes. Sometimes those positive outcomes are realized at the expense of someone else. Sometimes others' positive outcomes are realized at our expense. That just seems to be the way life works. Of course, we know that a sovereign God is in control, not luck or chance. But even so, we do take what we perceive to be "risks."

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  • Advanced Member

How about this?
Gambling means taking chance on or risk. It is not just only money, but life or living. For example: If the person loses a job or has no job, he is taking chance to move to other place or stay that area to find a job but he doesn't know if he can be able to find the job or not. This person is taking a risk. That is gambling.
Or the person is taking chance to have very serious surgery. This patient doesn't know whether will live or die. This is the matter of life or death. That is gambling.
Stock is taking risk. That is also gambling whether the stock will grow or downfall. It is same as playing games.
Not all people won the gambling become miserable. Some people can not be able to handle money as overspending that would lead to miserable. Some can be able to control money as investment.
However, the person need to be careful with it. Don't get a hook to it. Keep it under control. If he can't control it, get out of this gambling. Also if the person has evil heart like greedy or covet to want to win to find a way to be rich, that is wrong.
The bible didn't say "Gambling is sin." It did say, "haste to be rich shall not be innocent". Is that called sin?
What if the person just happen won and put it in kid's or kids' future fund or church fund or missionaries support or any good cause and make a good living to serve the Lord better than before? This is not haste to be rich. I can't find the words, "gambling is sin" in the bible.

Evan57

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist


I agree with most of what you've written here. Certainly, some kinds of gambling, as addictive, self-oriented, and exploitative as they can be, have proven to be dangerous and deadly, spiritually as well as physically. What I'm not sure about is how investing money in the stock market is any different, in principle, than, say, playing penny poker with friends. Let me hasten to add that I've never played penny poker or anything else for money, unless you count playing Skee-ball for prizes. (How is that different?) And, what is different--in principle--about paying money to compete in an event? For example, each fall my daughters enter our town's fiddling competition. They each pay five dollars to enter. The winner of the contest (which was my daughter last year :clap: ) takes home a cash prize of twenty-five dollars. Second prize is fifteen dollars. OK...Let's look at what happened here: 1)Each contestant paid money to get into the competition. 2) The money was gathered together and used as prizes for those who won. Those who won did so at others' loss. How is this different in principle than what happens around a gaming table? Sure, one competition is peopled with fresh-faced fiddlers, and the other with hardened poker faces...but what is the real difference? (I'm asking, not insinuating.) Perhaps the difference is the skill level involved...I don't know. Are poker and blacKJack all luck/chance? The fiddle competition has elements of both luck/chance and skill. (To clarify, I'm not saying I believe there is such a thing as luck/chance...I'm using that as a term for "that which is beyond the control of the contestant.")

To clarify again, I understand the addictive quality (and host of other problems) with some kinds of gambling. Of course, the Christian should steer far away from those activities. My questions have more to do with how what we do every day (enter competitions, Christian school fund raisers, stock market, etc.) is any different IN PRINCIPLE than the "gambling" that we're talking about. Those questions make it hard for me to say that all gambling, across the board, is sinful, or morally wrong. We "take risks" with money and other things all the time, on a daily basis, hoping, working, and praying for positive outcomes. Sometimes those positive outcomes are realized at the expense of someone else. Sometimes others' positive outcomes are realized at our expense. That just seems to be the way life works. Of course, we know that a sovereign God is in control, not luck or chance. But even so, we do take what we perceive to be "risks."


Wow! Your daughers play the fiddle!!! That is so cool :thumb Would love to hear/see that. I love the fiddle...love the banjo too. :Green
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Wow! Your daughers play the fiddle!!! That is so cool :thumb Would love to hear/see that. I love the fiddle...love the banjo too. :Green

:ot: Yeah. They play mostly classical music, but where we're from, every violinist's gotta learn to fiddle, too. Their daddy plays string bass in a bluegrass band, and sometimes the band lets the kids fiddle along on the mics, which they think is pretty fun. I'm fine with that, as long as they keep up with their Bach, Vivaldi, and Seitz concertos as well. :cool Maybe if I ever figure out how to upload video, I'll post a clip of them fiddlin'.
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:ot: Yeah. They play mostly classical music, but where we're from, every violinist's gotta learn to fiddle, too. Their daddy plays string bass in a bluegrass band, and sometimes the band lets the kids fiddle along on the mics, which they think is pretty fun. I'm fine with that, as long as they keep up with their Bach, Vivaldi, and Seitz concertos as well. :cool Maybe if I ever figure out how to upload video, I'll post a clip of them fiddlin'.


Very, very cool! :thumb Much better than gambling! :Green

Love the fiddle, but I do like some good violin too. :cool
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    • KJV ME!

      Now it is time for me to step out of my shell and let go... I AM STRICT KJV!... In scripture God said he would preserve his word... Well did he or didn't he?... If there is every translation under the sun, then he didn't but I KNOW HE DID!... The preserved word of God called the KJV is for the English people has been around for over 400 years and what is interesting to me, is the KJV was translated in 1611 and the Pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock in 1620... Coincidence?... A new book the preserved KJV word of God for the New World... So take that you KJV naysayers... I have been reading, studying and digging through the KJV for over 50 years... My belief is 100% Christ and scripture says so... Glad to be here and its time to take these shackles off!   
      John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
      I am... Brother Ramsey
       
      · 1 reply
    • stan1964stanssb

      Praise God I found such a powerhouse of the outpouring of His Spirit and unapologetic in regards of the defense of the KJV Bible. When I became a Christian back in 1984, I was told to get & read the KJV. It's been my choice all these years.
      · 0 replies
    • 1Timothy115  »  Ukulelemike

      Mike,
      RE: This is why I am here, why are you?
      Also, the land in Egypt wasn't land God gave them it was land Joseph through Pharaoh gave them. God gave them Canaan.
      Dave 
      · 1 reply
    • Alan

      Praise the Lord! Sherry and I, safe, tired, and joyful,  are back in Taiwan.
      · 0 replies
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