What is Sin?

[HappyChristian]

[quote="IM4given"]what about this verse:

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Am I to assume that if someone is insisting on particpating in these things, even though it is contrary to scriptures, that I am not to associate myself with them? That seems really harsh, don't you think? What if I just say to myself, its okay for other people to do these things, but that doesn't mean I have to. [u]Would it be a sin for me to continue to have company with these sorts of "friends?"[/u][/quote] Yep...this is a command, not a choice. But note that it isn't just "someone." It's someone who is called a brother...in other words, a Christian. It isn't wise to hang around non-Christians who do this kind of thing, because evil communications corrupt good manners. But at the same time, it isn't wrong to have lunch with an unsaved person - that might be the only way you can show them the love of Christ. KWIM?

[Guest Guest]

LuAnne wrote:

That's where the problem comes in. Principles of scripture are to be applied to our lives under the guidance and teaching of the Holy Spirit. [b]But too often people want to apply the principles after filtering them through the world. That doesn't work[/b].

:goodpost:

Excellent thread, Janet. Great posts, IFB's.

[b]I Peter 5:5-11[/b]...5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all [i]of you[/i] be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for GOD RESISTETH THE PROUD, AND GIVETH GRACE TO THE HUMBLE. 6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time: 7 Casting (throw) all your care upon him; for he careth for you. 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: 9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. 10 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle [i]you[/i]. 11 To him [i]be[/i] glory and dominion for ever and ever. A-men'. [i][b]"Glorify God."[/b][/i] [b]KJV 1611 AV.[/b]

[IM4given]

Okay here is another question I thought of -

what about the people who use "John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." to say that onyone who thinks all of these other things are sinful are just being too "legalistic?" They think that as long as they go around "loving one another" they are keeping the commandment and therefore the rest of us are just being hateful for pointing out sin when we see it?

[OLD fashioned preacher]

I know for fact, many think that once they have been saved from hell, they can live anyway they chose, that it makes no difference.

They feel being as there is not a sin that will now send us to hell we're safe, so we are going to enjoy life to its fullest. I've heard this from people who attend church regularly and from those who only attend on special occasions.

My son-in-laws mother feels this way, she found her last 2 husbands in the barrooms. I might add, her and her husbands have always attended barrooms much more frequently than church services. You know, church services is not as exciting as the barroom are at nighttime.

"What shall we say then, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? God forbid"

Like so many - if their sinful life is lived w/o conviction of the Holy Ghost upon them. if they can continue w/o chastisement from God --- then Heb 12 says they are spiritual "bastards and not sons".

[Guest Guest]

I have learned that the Bible is "full circle"...so to speak. We are to apply all of it to our daily lives. I believe that John 13:34 is where the unsaved (as well as other Christians) get confused with IFB doctrine. We are not under the law as the Jews, but...it has always been GRACE throughout the Bible that has saved "sinful" man. The Jews just needed to make the sacrifices "in addition" to the GRACE that God had given them through His mercy. Since we don't need to "make sacrifices" thank goodness ...we are still supposed to follow the 10 commandments as closely as we can. I know I have broken them all (in my heart) therefore the NT church was established. Praise be to God!!

I FOREVER thank Our Father in Heaven for sending his precious Son, Jesus Christ, to die on that cruel cross at Calvary so that we might have redemption through His shed blood.

Janet...we are NOT Jesus Christ. :tum The unsaved (as well as other Christians) will use this to hurt us.For there is none not righteous...no not one We are sinful Christians striving to live according to what Jesus Christ has commanded us (not suggested) us to do. We are to be Christ followers!

Psalm 119:43-48...43 And take not the word of truth utterly out of my mouth; for I have hoped in thy judgments (ordinances). 44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever. 45 And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts. 46 I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed. 47 And I will delight in thy commandments, which I have loved. 48 My hands also will I lift up unto thy commandments, which I have loved; and I will mediate in thy statutes. "Disciplined to Heed the Word" KJV 1611 AV.

[JerryNumbers]

Only difference in us and the Jews is our life is suppose to be a living sacrifice.

I feel with my whole heart that many use grace & liberty as an excuse not to make living sacrifices with their lives, I be one of the worse. How many of us really deny ourselves for the sake of Christ?

So many times in my life, I still do something, or fail to do something, and it will hit me like a ton of bricks that I just failed my Father & Savior. I have way to much tunnel-vision.

I know of a saved woman who goes to the boat, she knows better, I say that because she has stated flatly that it is wrong for a Christens to gamble, I have been told by some of her close friends for them not to mention to their pastor about her trips to the boat. She smoothes her conscience over by putting $100.00 in the officering plate and or a percentage of winnings.

I mentioned to one pastor about the bad habit of one of his male church members, his race horses, his gambling, ad his taking bets from others, that he ought to preach strongly against this. I like this pastor very much, but he is way wrong in this area, he said, I better not, I'll touch it lightly sometimes, we can sure use the money he gives our church nearly every month from all his winnings. To me its purely blood money, and the blood on it belongs to our Savior.

Of course there are many churches who deal in blood money, but I feel our Lord and Savior can take less money that has not His blood on it, and do more with it than He can such blood money. I know there will be many who will disagree with this outlook.

[IM4given]

SO I am not the only one who thinks these are important?

Exodus 20
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.


and I am not the only one who does not think that the New Testament does not cancel out the Old Testament?


Romans 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

[IM4given]

Only difference in us and the Jews is our life is suppose to be a living sacrifice.

I feel with my whole heart that many use grace & liberty as an excuse not to make living sacrifices with their lives, I be one of the worse. How many of us really deny ourselves for the sake of Christ?

So many times in my life, I still do something, or fail to do something, and it will hit me like a ton of bricks that I just failed my Father & Savior. I have way to much tunnel-vision.

I know of a saved woman who goes to the boat, she knows better, I say that because she has stated flatly that it is wrong for a Christens to gamble, I have been told by some of her close friends for them not to mention to their pastor about her trips to the boat. She smoothes her conscience over by putting $100.00 in the officering plate and or a percentage of winnings.

I mentioned to one pastor about the bad habit of one of his male church members, his race horses, his gambling, ad his taking bets from others, that he ought to preach strongly against this. I like this pastor very much, but he is way wrong in this area, he said, I better not, I'll touch it lightly sometimes, we can sure use the money he gives our church nearly every month from all his winnings. To me its purely blood money, and the blood on it belongs to our Savior.

Of course there are many churches who deal in blood money, but I feel our Lord and Savior can take less money that has not His blood on it, and do more with it than He can such blood money. I know there will be many who will disagree with this outlook.

Personally, I think it is the Prime Responsibility of a Preacher to have the COURAGE to preach about sin - unfortunately there are those who are more concerned with the amount in the offering plate, than they are concerned for the welfare of the flock they have been entrusted with. It really trips me out when I see a preacher who will not call SIN for what it is!

Hebrews 10
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28 He that despised Moses law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

[IM4given]

Okay, now I have to ask some more questions. I have been accused of using my own personal opinions to define and name sin. That seems to be a favorite tactic of some people, when they do not like what the Bible teaches, then they just start attacking who ever it was that pointed out the scriptures to them. It is my belief that these are the same ones that would withold money from the offering plates if a preacher dared to speak out against the "pet sins" of the congregation or would stomp out of the door in disgust to find a different church to find a preacher who will only say the things that they want to hear, rather than sit and listen to the Truth of the Word, repent of their sin and change their ways.

Jesus himself taught us that
Matthew 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

How does one go about deciding what the Bible teaches and what is just one person's opinon? I have been told that cross-dressing, drums in a worship service, alcohol, etc., etc. are simply my own personal opinion that these things are not really sinful, no matter how often I use scriptures to support my position. However, I have sat in churches and listened to the Word of God, with some mighty courageous and well-respected men of God, who dared to speak out and call those sins for what they are. This did not come from just one man who had his opinion about what was true and right and what was sinful and wrong, but many preachers. You will not hear the TV Evangelist speak out on sin - can you imagine how quickly people would change the channel?

[Guest Guest]

Only difference in us and the Jews is our life is suppose to be a living sacrifice.

This is what I have been taught.

I feel with my whole heart that many use grace & liberty as an excuse not to make living sacrifices with their lives' date=' I be one of the worse. How many of us really deny ourselves for the sake of Christ?[/quote']

Very true, Pastor Jerry.



YES!!! It is overwhelming, and it grieves me that I have disappointed Our Heavenly Father by my wrong actions.

[Guest Guest]

SO I am not the only one who thinks these are important?

No. I do too, Janet.

In fact...I have a wooden plaque of the 10 Commandments hanging above the commode in our second bathroom. I already pointed out # 2 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" to my brother. You know how it is missing from the RCC? Larry noticed it after looking at #5 "Honour thy father and thy mother" which of course, is #4 in the RCC. He seemed to comprehend that right away. :pray for his salvation.

and I am not the only one who does not think that the New Testament does not cancel out the Old Testament?

No. It does not. They are an extension of one another. How could they be canceled out? We just happen to live in the NT church. The IFB, IMHO, preaches/teaches 98-99% truth (at least in most IFB churches.) That is of course, if they stick closely to the KJB and do not deviate. IMO, there is a "sleight" margin...and, I say "sleight" b/c we are human. Human weakness can get in there, IMO. God forbid.

Romans 13
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Praise God!! :goodpost:

[IM4given]

Okay, here is a great discussion/debate/agrument I found myself in some time ago - the word "tattoo" is no where to be found in the Bible.

However, the scriptures DO say:
Leviticus 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

So does this mean that tatoos are sinful, or is that merely my opinion?

When I say that tattoos are sinful and foridden, then people will get all bent out of shape and tell me how ridiculous that verse is, because if that one is true then that means that I have to also insist that the one before it -" Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard" must also be true and we certainly don't see men going around with that type of hairstyle anymore these days, now do we? :loco

So are they arguing against me and my "opinion" or are they arguing against the scriptures?

(What it tells me is that the stronger they argue against the scriptures then the more tattoos they must have all over their bodies!)

[Guest Guest]

When I say that tattoos are sinful and foridden, then people will get all bent out of shape and tell me how ridiculous that verse is, because if that one is true then that means that I have to also insist that the one before it -" Ye shall not round the corners of your heads, neither shalt thou mar the corners of thy beard" must also be true and we certainly don't see men going around with that type of hairstyle anymore these days, now do we?

Certainly raises a consistency issue doesn't it. I wonder how many IFB pastors there are who believe tattoos are wrong but don't wear a beard. Of course, orthodox Jews do wear beards(or long sideburns at least) because of this passage.

[Guest Guest]

However, the scriptures DO say:
Leviticus 19:28 Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.

So does this mean that tatoos are sinful, or is that merely my opinion?

It is safe to say that tatoos are sinful. However, when a new person comes into the IFB...I don't think it is really wise to start quoting these scriptures of Leviticus at them. :lol The Holy Spirit should do the job for the unsaved. You know...don't force the Spirit. LOL. As for a believer? I really think they should know these scriptures...or should have be taught them, at least. If they have been, they "might" be acting rebellious. I dunno. I have known of some Christians to have them removed, in fact. They say it is expensive...and it hurts. Ouch!!

[deputydog530]

And this is why we are saved by grace through faith and not works. Because we would just fail to meet the mark. :smile