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What is Sin?


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I don't think the Bible declares that a man is better than a woman, but He does declare they both have their own place in God's creation, and if they are not in their own place which God has determined they can't follow Christ closely. No one can follow Christ closely if they are partaking of sin, any sin, sin separates, any sin seprates. Sad to say many of both man and woman feel they're following God real close, even though they're partaking of sins and they will argue they're just as spiritual as anyone else and are indeed following God very closely. Many such people will nearly attack you if you point out any sin they're partaking o and accuse you of hate and being ungodly.

Many such people feel as long as they do not have another God, do not lie, bear false witness, do not kill, no adultery or fornication, covets their neighbors wife or anything else, honor thy father & mother, they're doing God's will with their life. Seems as well that they feel that anything that is a sacrifice for them or any family member is never required of them by God.

A Christian school this year got a warning for violating the recruiting rules against their football team, they proclaim that is the same thing as getting a warring ticket for speeding, that any thing that does no punish you has no meaning at all, if there is no punishment you did no wrong. That is the mind set of many Christians, but I suppose they fail to understand there will come a day of reckoning.

22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

James 1:22 (KJV)

5 Having a form of godliness,

2 Tim 3:5 (KJV)

Sad to say, all some have is a form of godliness, nothing more, many of which never even hear the Word.

Of course God does tell us to examine our self, we are not to examine our self to the one setting in the pew beside us, in front of us, or behind us, not the pastor behind the pulpit, or those of the world, the example we are to examine our self against is Jesus Christ, who made many sacrifices in His life that He might be the perfect example and be fit to pay the price for our sins on that old cross. Jesus was a living sacrifice, He denied Himself many times, how many of us have really denied our self, yes, God expects it of us.

1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Romans 12:1-2 (KJV)

This life God expects us to live, the living sacrifice He expects of us, it will not be grievous to us the least bit if we really love our Savior.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

1 John 5:3 (KJV)

How many people have we smart mouthed instead of having convictions for wrong doings who God has sent into our lives to help us draw closer to Him by pointing out we're doing wrong? As we read about Jesus in the New Testament we find many who even did our Savior this way.

Most of the time we look for any excues we can in order to follow the world and have the good life that we see those of the world living, plus we want to stay in good standing with them.

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I don't think the Bible declares that a man is better than a woman' date=' but He does declare they both have their own place in God's creation, and if they are not in their own place which God has determined they can't follow Christ closely.[/quote']

:amen: The husband is the head of the family...as Christ is head of the church. My pastor says that he believes that the wife (mom) is like the "Holy Spirit" in the family. So, "when mama ain't happy, the whole family ain't happy" applies here. I was told, as a young girl, that the mom "was the glue that held the family together." Also, she is the "nucleus" of the family. Thus, the same principle applies, IMO. They are to work together in unity for the family. The children follow that example.



YES! Satan does this to people. Well, Satan, the world, and the flesh...that is.



Works based, IMHO.



Matthew 7:16-20...16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt (bad) tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good (healthy) tree cannot bring forth evil (bad) fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. KJV 1611 AV.

I think that there is also some rotten Christian fruit in the world. :sad

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Ive never responded to the pants/dress issue because it is such a heated debate. I have decided to put in this 1 post on the issue.

First, Deuteronomy 22:5 gets taken out of context. The word pertaineth deals with ownership. It is dealing with ownership of what a man has and what a woman has. A man would not put on his wifes cloths, and a woman would not put on her husbands cloths. etc. The only diference in what was worn at the time of this writting was the colors of the clothing. Men were not wearing pants around.

Second, Breeches pertain (are owned) only by the priests. Breeches is mentioned 5 times and each time it is for the priest. They were underwear to keep the sweat from the garments, cover nakedness while the priest changed into the temple garments, etc. He did not run down to walmart in his breeches.

I have spent litteraly years studying this issue. Why? To be right with God. I dont believe it is sin for a woman to wear pants that are modest and made for a woman. However, if a woman has the preference to wear a dress all the time, more power to her. If her husband wants her in a dress, go for it. She should just be sure it is modest. See where im going with this? Modesty is the issue.

I have been handed books by people who told me "this will prove women should wear dresses only". Yet they cant show me scripture, other than Deut 22:5 which I have discussed.

I have seen many women who hold to the dress only issue that were not modest at all. clinging dresses at the knee, wearying nylons. Nylons are to make the leg more appealing. How is this modest? skirts with form fitted blouses.... Ive heard them scof at a woman in pants (made for women) that were loose and modest. the woman in pants was dressed more modestly than the one in the dress.

Now lets talk about men. How many men, including preachers have I seen in tight suits that are revealing. To many. And yes, women sin though the eye also. If you dont have the issue of sin through the eye praise God, most people do.

My point is the key is modesty. We need to quit making private interpretations and follow the word of God. There are some awsome posts here. this issue is like any other sin. Those who justify drinking alcohol, etc.

This post is not to start debate or upset anyone. Just sharing a fraction of my findings on an exahustive study of this issue.

Weather you want to wear a dress or pants (women) go for it, just make sure its modest and God honoring.

God Bless :2cents

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Thanks so much deputydog for more than your :2cents . I really appreciate that you took the time to write this, and that you spent "years studying this issue."

:amen::goodpost:



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Ive never responded to the pants/dress issue because it is such a heated debate. I have decided to put in this 1 post on the issue.

First, Deuteronomy 22:5 gets taken out of context. The word pertaineth deals with ownership. It is dealing with ownership of what a man has and what a woman has. A man would not put on his wifes cloths, and a woman would not put on her husbands cloths. etc. The only diference in what was worn at the time of this writting was the colors of the clothing. Men were not wearing pants around.

Second, Breeches pertain (are owned) only by the priests. Breeches is mentioned 5 times and each time it is for the priest. They were underwear to keep the sweat from the garments, cover nakedness while the priest changed into the temple garments, etc. He did not run down to walmart in his breeches.

I have spent litteraly years studying this issue. Why? To be right with God. I dont believe it is sin for a woman to wear pants that are modest and made for a woman. However, if a woman has the preference to wear a dress all the time, more power to her. If her husband wants her in a dress, go for it. She should just be sure it is modest. See where im going with this? Modesty is the issue.

I have been handed books by people who told me "this will prove women should wear dresses only". Yet they cant show me scripture, other than Deut 22:5 which I have discussed.

I have seen many women who hold to the dress only issue that were not modest at all. clinging dresses at the knee, wearying nylons. Nylons are to make the leg more appealing. How is this modest? skirts with form fitted blouses.... Ive heard them scof at a woman in pants (made for women) that were loose and modest. the woman in pants was dressed more modestly than the one in the dress.

Now lets talk about men. How many men, including preachers have I seen in tight suits that are revealing. To many. And yes, women sin though the eye also. If you dont have the issue of sin through the eye praise God, most people do.

My point is the key is modesty. We need to quit making private interpretations and follow the word of God. There are some awsome posts here. this issue is like any other sin. Those who justify drinking alcohol, etc.

This post is not to start debate or upset anyone. Just sharing a fraction of my findings on an exahustive study of this issue.

Weather you want to wear a dress or pants (women) go for it, just make sure its modest and God honoring.

God Bless :2cents

:amen::goodpost::amen: very well put.
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This is a short list of things that are abominations to God. My question is this - is an abomination the same thing as a sin?

Clearly women who wear men?s clothes and men who wear women?s clothes are an abomination. But is it sin?

Deuteronomy 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Sodomy/homosexuality is also an abomination. Sodomites often like to cross-dress and pretend to be the other gender. But is it sin?

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Just about anything to do with graven images in an abomination. But is it sin?

Deuteronomy 7:25 The graven images of their gods shall ye burn with fire: thou shalt not desire the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it unto thee, lest thou be snared therein: for it is an abomination to the LORD thy God.
Deuteronomy 7:26 Neither shalt thou bring an abomination into thine house, lest thou be a cursed thing like it: but thou shalt utterly detest it, and thou shalt utterly abhor it; for it is a cursed thing.
Deuteronomy 27:15 Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.

Ill-gotten money in the offering plate is an abomination. But is it sin?

Deuteronomy 23:18 Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

Lying and Cheating are abominations. But are they sin?

Proverbs 11:1 A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

Proverbs 12:22 Lying lips are abomination to the LORD: but they that deal truly are his delight.

These two are interesting?. But are they sin?

Proverbs 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Should we be ashamed if we commit an abomination? Is committing an abomination something we need to ask forgiveness for and repent from doing?

Jeremiah 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.

Only the people who are written in the Lamb?s book of life will enter into heaven. I have heard it said that God writes your name in his book with indelible ink! So what does this verse mean anyways?

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

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Ok, since it has come around to this again, I want to address two issues related to the pants vs. dresses argument. I had wanted to post them before as I felt things were left up in the air, but considering how contentious things were getting, like deputydog530, I didn't want to get into it just then. :wink Hopefully that is not such an issue in the IFB forum.

Anyway, first off I want to say that while I think everyone here agrees that ladies should dress in modest apparel based on [bible]1st Timothy 2:9[/bible], I do not think everyone agrees on what "modest apparel" means. I believe this is one example of how greek being such a specific language is helpful.

Here is the greek word for "apparel" in this passage:

Strong's Number: 2689
Original Word Word Origin
katastolhv from (2687)
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
kat-as-tol-ay' Noun Feminine
Definition
a lowering, letting down
a garment let down, dress, attire

This is the ONLY time this greek word is used in scripture, and it is rather particular. Every other time our english bible uses the english word "apparel" it is translating a different greek word.

For example, in [bible]Acts 20:33[/bible] the word Paul uses means:

Strong's Number: 2441
Original Word Word Origin
iJmatismov

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In keeping with the topic of this thread to do you believe it is sinful for a woman to wear men's clothing and for men to wear women's clothing?


Yes, but I believe the others do as well, they just disagree over what is mens clothing and what is womens clothing.
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It is my belief that it is the Feminist Movement that has adversely influenced good Christian Women, and is infiltrating our churches, into the false belief that Women ought to wear pants. Indeed, it was the founding members of the feminist movement that invented the style of women wear pants...

However I believe that a Christ Following Christian woman ought to distance herself as far from the Feminist Movement and its evil agenda in every single way that she possibly can, because their agenda is in direct opposition to God's Agenda for your life if you are going to follow Him. Would this be considered sin to follow a wordly agenda?


THE FEMINIST AGENDA -- In their leaders? own words:

1. "The simple fact is that every woman must be willing to be identified as a lesbian to be fully feminist." (National NOW Times, Jan.1988).

2. "Since marriage constitutes slavery for women, it is clear that the women's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution. Freedom
for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage." (radical feminist leader Sheila Cronan).

3. "Being a housewife is an illegitimate profession... The choice to serve and be protected and plan towards being a family-maker is a choice that shouldn't be. The heart of radical feminism is to change that." (Vivian Gornick, feminist author, University of Illinois, "The Daily Illini," April 25, 1981.

4. The most merciful thing a large family can do to one of its infant members is to kill it." (Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, in "Women and the New Rage," p.67.

5. "In order to raise children with equality, we must take them away from families and communally raise them." (Dr. Mary Jo Bane, feminist and assistant professor of education at Wellesley College and associate director of the school's Center for Research on Woman).

6. "Marriage has existed for the benefit of men; and has been a legally sanctioned method of control over women... We must work to destroy it. The end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women. Therefore it is important for us to encourage women to leave their husbands and not to live individually with men... All of history must be re-written in terms of oppression of women. We must go back to ancient female religions like witchcraft." (from "The Declaration of Feminism," November 1971).

7. "Overthrowing capitalism is too small for us. We must overthrow the whole... patriarch!" (Gloria Steinhem, radical feminist leader, editor of 'MS' magazine).

8. In response to a question concerning China's policy of compulsory abortion after the first child, Molly Yard responded, "I consider the Chinese government's policy among the most intelligent in the world."(Gary Bauer, "Abetting Coercion in China," The Washington Times", October 10, 1989).

9. "Let's forget about the mythical Jesus and look for encouragement, solace and inspiration from real women... Two thousand years of patriarchal rule under the shadow of the cross ought to be enough to turn women toward the feminist 'salvation' of this world." (Annie Laurie Gaylor, "Feminist Salvation," "The Humanist", July/August 1988, p.37.

10. "By the year 2000 we will, I hope, raise our children to believe in human potential, not God." (Gloria Steinhem, editor of 'MS' magazine.)

Source: Center for Children's Justice in Denver, CO (Robert Muchnick - www.childrensjustice.org )

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Did you know there is a website for Christian Feminists? That sounds like an oxymoron to me! :bonk:


Oh my goodness. That is an "oxymoron." If I should happen to stumble across that one, I will avoid it like the plague. LOL.
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Yes, that is exactly what I mean, John. Why do people seem to be able to idenitfy the sin in others, but have problems identifying the sin in themselves? I am guilty of getting in a hurry and wanting to go over the speed limit, but not only is it breaking the law, it is committing a sin as a Christ following Christian.

It is not about anyone trying to be better than anyone else. It is simply trying to exhort one another to become better Christians. what is wrong with doing that?

I was taught that is what we are SUPPOSED to do as Christ Followers

Hebrews 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.


Christianity isn't meant to be a solo adventure. There are times we can see the sins of others while some of our own sins go unseen by us. This is why it's so important to have true Christian friends and mentors in our lives.

When I was in university a very small group of us were devoted to following Christ. We were accountable to one another. If one of us saw a problem or possible problem with another we would talk with them. We could be fully open and honest with one another. We would call sin sin but we did it out of and in brotherly love and true concern for one another. That was one of the best times of my life.
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Thanks Seth!


It is not a very accurate picture. The outer robe was more like a suit coat today, they took it off in public quite commonly. Historically, Jewish men had a shirt and pants under that and women had a dress under their robes. Taking off the outer robe was simply a thing to do when it was less formal. Scripture sometimes calls this "naked" but it is not "naked" as we generally use the term today and it was perfectly alright in certain situations.

[offtopic]Could this be where the Mormons get their views on this when they worship in the Mormon Tabernacle?[/offtopic]

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I thought of another good question regarding sin. Is the Modern Feminist Movement a sin against God? Is it okay for a woman to believe that she is just as good as a man, equal in every way, and that being in the workforce is a way to prove her equality? The feminist also believe that being an ordinary housewife is just a way for a man to keep a woman as a "second class citizen." I believe part of that Feminist culture is to look like a man, dress like a man, and wear those cute cropped hair styles that tell the world they are modern liberated women.


The bible teaches us that women were made from the man to be the man's help meet.

Genesis 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Genesis 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

Does the Bible specify what the woman's role is supposed to be? I think it does.

Psalm 127
3 Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.
4 As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.
5 Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

Ruth 3:11 And now, my daughter, fear not; I will do to thee all that thou requirest: for all the city of my people doth know that thou art a virtuous woman.
Proverbs 12:4 A virtuous woman is a crown to her husband: but she that maketh ashamed is as rottenness in his bones.

Proverbs 31
10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
27 She looketh well to the ways
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