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Which wine is the good wine?


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Actually it was king Lemuel's mother who said that, not Solomon. And she wasn't necessarily speaking of those who are perishing for eternity. This was in the Old Testament, and this was talking about people having big problems in this physical/material life that they couldn't cope with.
Lemuel's mother may have originally spoken those words, but the instructions were echoed by Solomon. Read the beginning of the book, it clearly states 'The proverbs of Solomon...'.

Also, Solomon tells us in the first chapter that a wise man will hear, but fools despise wisdom. Over and over he states the wise will receive instruction and heed it.

Proverbs 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:

Proverbs 1:7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Proverbs 1:33 But whoso hearkeneth unto me shall dwell safely, and shall be quiet from fear of evil. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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The thing is, if the wine Jesus made in Cana was alcoholic in content, then He has no business sending drunkards to the lake of fire. (the Bible does say drunkards will go to the lake of fire)

You may ask how I can make such a bold statement.

Well, according to the account found in John 2, the guests at the wedding had already 'well drunk'. Had the supply of wine that they had exhausted been alcoholic in nature, then they would have already been on their way to drunkenness or already drunk. Jesus would have been adding to their drunkenness consigning them to the lake of fire.

Even if it were not alcoholic, and the wine that Jesus produced was alcoholic, the fact that Jesus did not tell them to only drink in moderation shows that He approved of the drinking of wine in abundance... contributing to drunkenness.

Jesus came to seek and save that which is lost, not to help them further down the road to destruction. The wine He made was not an intoxicating wine, else He would have warned them not to get drunk.

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There be many that want to drink so bad that they will never understand the evils of alcoholic drink.


No, I already addressed this in an earlier comment:


Depends on how much you drink, your body type, and the alcohol content of the wine you are drinking. Jewish wine usually doesn't have as high of a alcohol content as most modern wine. I don't drink even "small, elegant" amounts because I just don't really care for alcohol, but when I did, I could drink two glasses of wine (16% alcohol) without it affecting me (which is weird because I have a small body type, under 120lb). My mom, on the other hand, gets dizzy from even a tablespoon of wine, if she takes some for medical purposes.


I don't care for drinking, I just don't think it is sinful in and of itself. I think the arguments on both sides have been almost exhausted though, so there's not much reason to continue. I do think drinking can be rather dangerous and most people don't have a good reason for it. Drinking often results from and results in sin.
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No, I already addressed this in an earlier comment:



I don't care for drinking, I just don't think it is sinful in and of itself. I think the arguments on both sides have been almost exhausted though, so there's not much reason to continue. I do think drinking can be rather dangerous and most people don't have a good reason for it. Drinking often results from and results in sin.


You may have addressed, yet it is still a fact.

Why would I say that, because so many defend alcoholic drinks while the Bible has little good to say about it, and gives many reason not to drink that "Liquid Devil," And that is exactly what alcoholic drinks are, those who drink it are deceived.




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Grapes have a natural yeast which will ferment the juice naturally. This is seen as the bloom on a grape. When put into a fresh wineskin the juice will naturally ferment, giving off carbon dioxide and expanding the skin. This is why the scripture says you would not put new wine into old skins and the new fermentation would burst the skins. Vinegar is formed when a vinegar fly gets into the wine intoducing a bacteria which turns the alcohol in the wine to vinegar. The word vinegar comes from the French, vin = wine and aigre = sour, sweet and sour in French is aigre-doux. These days, yeast is extracted from the grapes and purified and makes a stronger on "purer" wine.

I would say that new wine in the scripture is unfermented and old wine is after it has naturally fermented in the skins. Lu 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
However, Ac 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine. may mean fermented, but not matured, wine.

I am not sure that fermenting can be described as rotting. It is the same process that makes bread and we would not call that rotting, but preserving, If you have ever made sourdough bread you are using the same process. You add water to flour and let it ferment, you feed it with more flour and water until tou have enough yeast then you add it to the flour to make your bread. ( I tried it once and failed miserably.) http://www.io.com/~sjohn/sour.htm The sour dough would be the leaven in scripture.

Well, the "vinegar" that my mom accidentally created had no flies in it...It fermented in the jar - from the natural alcohol in it.
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The thing is, if the wine Jesus made in Cana was alcoholic in content, then He has no business sending drunkards to the lake of fire. (the Bible does say drunkards will go to the lake of fire)

You may ask how I can make such a bold statement.

Well, according to the account found in John 2, the guests at the wedding had already 'well drunk'. Had the supply of wine that they had exhausted been alcoholic in nature, then they would have already been on their way to drunkenness or already drunk. Jesus would have been adding to their drunkenness consigning them to the lake of fire.

Even if it were not alcoholic, and the wine that Jesus produced was alcoholic, the fact that Jesus did not tell them to only drink in moderation shows that He approved of the drinking of wine in abundance... contributing to drunkenness.

Jesus came to seek and save that which is lost, not to help them further down the road to destruction. The wine He made was not an intoxicating wine, else He would have warned them not to get drunk.


Who created opium, canabis, and coca? Did you know that fermentation even occurs in nature and that animals sometimes get drunk off eating fermented fruits? Does Jesus make men get high on the Marijuana, canabis or Opium He created? He created food too, But does Jesus make people overeat? I don't drink alcohol myself, and I don't get high.....I hate the stuff. So I'm not looking for an excuse to drink; I'm only interested in the Truth. Did the mighty Creator, Jesus Christ, who created all those drugs in plants, and the alcohol in fruits, turn that water into fermented wine in John Chapter 2?. I need the biblical truth so I can give it to my friends who desperately need it. Edited by heartstrings
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Who created opium, canabis, and coca? Did you know that fermentation even occurs in nature and that animals sometimes get drunk off eating fermented fruits? Does Jesus make men get high on the Marijuana, canabis or Opium He created? He created food too, But does Jesus make people overeat? I don't drink alcohol myself, and I don't get high.....I hate the stuff. So I'm not looking for an excuse to drink; I'm only interested in the Truth. Did the mighty Creator, Jesus Christ, who created all those drugs in plants, and the alcohol in fruits, turn that water into fermented wine in John Chapter 2?. I need the biblical truth so I can give it to my friends who desperately need it.


The biblical truth that cannot be disputed is not to get drunk on wine, but to be filled with the Spirit. Beyond that, it is up to the individual as they read Scripture and are guided by the Holy Spirit. For example, I drink wine and beer with dinner sometimes, and do not think there is anything in the world wrong with that. Others I know feel that for them, it is not right. To violate their conscionce on the issue would be to sin. No one can point to any one scripture and say yes it is ok, or no it is not ok without doing great linguistic gymnastics. The universal biblical principal is that it is unwise and a sin to drink in excess. People who do not believe the Bible will often admit that. Drinking in excess leads to poor judgment, harmful behaviors, foolishness, etc.

Beyond that, I do not think one can categorically call any consumption of alcohol a sin. It is just not supported by scripture.

I, for one, believe he did create actual wine, just by studying the culture of the day. However, do I have actual proof of that? No. Neither do those who say he made grape juice. I just know the Bible says he made wine from water. But as to the principal, it remains the same...do not get drunk on wine. Just like we are not to be a glutton and abuse food, we are not be drunk by abusing alcohol. Edited by kindofblue1977
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Who created opium, canabis, and coca? Did you know that fermentation even occurs in nature and that animals sometimes get drunk off eating fermented fruits? Does Jesus make men get high on the Marijuana, canabis or Opium He created? He created food too, But does Jesus make people overeat? I don't drink alcohol myself, and I don't get high.....I hate the stuff. So I'm not looking for an excuse to drink; I'm only interested in the Truth. Did the mighty Creator, Jesus Christ, who created all those drugs in plants, and the alcohol in fruits, turn that water into fermented wine in John Chapter 2?. I need the biblical truth so I can give it to my friends who desperately need it.

The Bible says that the guests of the wedding feast had 'well drunk' before Christ turned the water into wine. The guests had drunk well. Let that sink in for a moment. If what they drank well was alcoholic, then they were already on their way to drunkenness. (if not already in a certain stage of it)

Here comes Jesus. Do you honestly believe He would give alcohol to someone who had already well drunk? it just isn't logical since His purpose was not to steal kill and destroy. Habbakuk states that there is a woe for the one that puts the bottle to his neighbor's lips, that makes him drunk also. Notice the woe is not just for getting one drunk, but also for putting the bottle to one's lips.

Now, back to the wedding feast. The men had already been drinking... so much that they exhausted the supply that the bridegroom had provided. Why would Jesus want to bring woe upon Himself by putting alcohol to His neighbor's lips?

The Word of God tells us Jesus manifested His glory in that first miracle. How would giving someone a product of decay manifest His glory?
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Well, the "vinegar" that my mom accidentally created had no flies in it...It fermented in the jar - from the natural alcohol in it.


The bugs that change the alcohol in wine to acid are also carried in the air, You can make vinegar in a crock, by filling it with vinegar and when you draw some off, you top it up with wine. Why anyone would, I can't imagine as vinegar is much cheaper.
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Scripture is clear enough that Christians shouldn't drink alcohol and is also clear that such is for fools. No Christian in right relation with Christ could drink alcohol with a clear conscience.

Agreed. Alcohol is for the bitter and those who are ready to perish. It is for the condemned, not for those who are promised shall never perish. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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Scripture is clear enough that Christians shouldn't drink alcohol and is also clear that such is for fools. No Christian in right relation with Christ could drink alcohol with a clear conscience.



Yes, but sad, many will not accept that truth.

Ro 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

And become stumblingblocks by consuming alcoholic drinks.
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From what I read in my Bible, the child of God will never perish.

So, Solomon must be speaking of giving wine to one who is not a child of God. One who is ready to perish.


Alcohol is for the bitter and those who are ready to perish. It is for the condemned, not for those who are promised shall never perish.


Do you mean by this that you believe it is sinful for Christians to drink alcohol but not sinful for Christians to ply lost people with alcohol?
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