Members heartstrings Posted May 20, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 I've heard preachers, many times, say that "wine" is a "type" or symbol of "joy". I can't understand why that would be other than being reminded of my wayward uncle calling it "happy juice". But I would say more specifically that instead of "joy" it would represent "enjoyment" or pleasure. Any of the pleasures of this world could be a "wine" of sorts, when we let ourselves be caught up in them. I mean, drugs, sex, money, power, even recreation can all be good things. But all of these things, if misused have the real potential to destroy us and other people around us. Just like wine, it can mock us in the end.1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 17And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. DennisD and HappyChristian 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DennisD Posted May 20, 2011 Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 Hebrews 11:25 (KJV) Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted May 20, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 :thumb: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted May 20, 2011 Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 Grapes do not have alcohol in them, there is no alcohol in grapes until they are fermented. You can void fermentation by introducing hermetic recipient and cooking it in a water bath or double broiler to destroy organisms that cause fermentation. Grapes juice will ferment on their own, having added nothing to the juice. The winebibber, the drinking man, with feel very uncomfortable in our congregation, and he would be a person I would not want to associate with. He will be a disgrace to any church he is associate with, and the stumbling block for weak Christians and the lost. Its quite amazing at the many excuses some will come up with to sear over their conscience in order to consume alcoholic drinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted May 20, 2011 Administrators Share Posted May 20, 2011 Jerry8, I'm sorry, but wishful thinking doesn't make the natural content of alcohol in grapes go away. It's there, and that's a scientific fact... Thomas Welch pasteurized grape juice to stop the normal fermentation process, in the attempt to create non-alcoholic wine for use in communion services. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted May 20, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 .........The winebibber, the drinking man, with feel very uncomfortable in our congregation, and he would be a person I would not want to associate with. .......... ....a friend to publicans and sinners... ...........And he went into the Pharisee's house and sat down to meat..............Luke 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted May 20, 2011 Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 No wishful thinking, natural grape juice has no alcohol in it, its a plain and simple truth. That is not true if there has been any fermentation. There has to be fermentation for grape juice to have alcohol within it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JerryNumbers Posted May 20, 2011 Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 ....a friend to publicans and sinners... ...........And he went into the Pharisee's house and sat down to meat..............Luke 7 2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted May 20, 2011 Administrators Share Posted May 20, 2011 No wishful thinking, natural grape juice has no alcohol in it, its a plain and simple truth. That is not true if there has been any fermentation. There has to be fermentation for grape juice to have alcohol within it.. Jerry8, you need to check your facts. You're wrong. Period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted May 20, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2Co 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you When two are "yoked" together, it means they are pulling the same load; working together. For instance, a man who was in the same line of business as myself, did not have some of the equipment that I had. So he would sub out some of the production to me. That made him my customer. Later, he wanted to go into business with me as a partner. I declined because he was an alcoholic and had liquor on his breath most of the time. I could no do that because that would be yoking together with an unbeliever, not to mention the safety risks. But he still likes me and respects me and I still treat him like a friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DennisD Posted May 20, 2011 Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 Jerry8, you need to check your facts. You're wrong. Period. I have not been able to find anything that confirms grapes have alcohol in them, even a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members no name joe Posted May 20, 2011 Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 (edited) I have not been able to find anything that confirms grapes have alcohol in them, even a little. http://www.morethanorganic.com/fermentation "Fermentation requires two things : sugars and yeasts. A ripe organic grape is full of natural sugars and there are wild yeasts living on its skin. As soon as the skin of the grape is broken, fermentation can begin. To make wine, all the winemaker has to do is collect his grapes and gently crush them, releasing the sugary juice and exposing it to the yeasts. Fermentation will continue until all the sugar has been turned into alcohol or the level of alcohol in the juice reaches around fifteen percent, whichever is sooner. At around fifteen percent alcohol, the yeasts will die naturally and any left over sugars will remain in the wine." This is true, grapes have sugar. The skin has wild yeast living on it (if you do not believe it, wild yeast is everywhere. In fact, you can capture wild yeast and make bread). As soon as it is crushed, the wild yeast immediately begins to eat the sugars, which turn sugar into alcohol. Winemakers control this process, and usually get rid of the wild yeast and add their own yeast. However, fermentation begins as soon as the skin is broken. Edited May 20, 2011 by kindofblue1977 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DennisD Posted May 20, 2011 Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 http://www.morethanorganic.com/fermentation "Fermentation requires two things : sugars and yeasts. A ripe organic grape is full of natural sugars and there are wild yeasts living on its skin. As soon as the skin of the grape is broken, fermentation can begin. To make wine, all the winemaker has to do is collect his grapes and gently crush them, releasing the sugary juice and exposing it to the yeasts. Fermentation will continue until all the sugar has been turned into alcohol or the level of alcohol in the juice reaches around fifteen percent, whichever is sooner. At around fifteen percent alcohol, the yeasts will die naturally and any left over sugars will remain in the wine." This is true, grapes have sugar. The skin has wild yeast living on it (if you do not believe it, wild yeast is everywhere. In fact, you can capture wild yeast and make bread). As soon as it is crushed, the wild yeast immediately begins to eat the sugars, which turn sugar into alcohol. Winemakers control this process, and usually get rid of the wild yeast and add their own yeast. However, fermentation begins as soon as the skin is broken. So, that says fermentation can't begin until the skin is broken. Which tells me there is no alcohol in them from the beginning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted May 20, 2011 Author Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 Ok I'm readY! How do I capture some wild yeasts? :runforhills: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members no name joe Posted May 20, 2011 Members Share Posted May 20, 2011 So, that says fermentation can't begin until the skin is broken. Which tells me there is no alcohol in them from the beginning. Correct. When the skin is broken and teh grapes pressed for juice, natural fermentation begins immediately, so a very small amount of alcohol (a small enough amount that it doesn't matter) is present. The longer it sits, the more teh wild yeast will eat the sugars and convert it into alcohol, giving it a higher and higher alcohol content over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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