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Which wine is the good wine?


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Yes...what is "the luna"? Moon worship?


Goodness no. It's another way of saying to look to above -- to God. The Bible is clear. All this stuff about grape juice and low alcohol content and everything else that isn't in the Bible is phooey. Alcohol has many good properties when used in moderation and it is indisputable that wine was a central part of daily life in both Biblical times and modern times. What does the Bible say about those who prescribe rules about what, and what not to eat and drink? Modern day pharisees seeking a holier than though position of self righteousness that cast guilt and shame over others. Lying about God's precious word -- be accursed. Edited by mattd
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While names in the Bible often reflected a person's nature, this was not always the case.
I agree that Proverbs 31 is godly advice.
Scripture tells us that people were not saved pre-cross... only called righteous. It is Christ's blood that cleanses us from all sin, the blood of goats and bulls could not meet the requirement that was needed to purchase our Salvation.
Strong drink and wine, because of their deceiving qualities, will cause one to forget one's poverty and misery.

Never got to that point in my life where I felt life was not worth living, no. The point with the alcohol is not for the saved is because the saved are not in misery. He has turned our sorrow into joy. We are not ready to perish. Perich in Proverbs 31 is speaking of the condemned according to most commentaries I have read.


I agree, the saved don't need alcohol to alleviate their misery, and I think Lemuel's mother knew that very well. I don't put too much stock in commentaries.
It doesn't make sense to give strong drink to someone who is about to drop off into Hell. The whiskey won't do them a lick of good. My Dad died from cancer and they gave him drugs for pain. Back, years ago, it would have been something like Laudnum or whiskey. Tha't's what it's talking about,; someone in physical agony.

BTW, do you think King David made it to Heaven? He seemed confident that he would get there when he said "I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever"...so did Brother Job when he said "mine eyes shall behold Him..." They were looking forward to the Cross, my friend.
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Goodness no. It's another way of saying to look to above -- to God.
The word 'luna' does not mean above... it means moon. Look it up.

The Bible is clear. All this stuff about grape juice and low alcohol content and everything else that isn't in the Bible is phooey
. The Bible is clear. "Look not thou upon the wine WHEN IT IS..."

Alcohol has many good properties when used in moderation and it is indisputable that wine was a central part of daily life in both Biblical times and modern times.
and yet the Bible tells us LOOK NOT.


What does the Bible say about those who prescribe rules about what, and what not to eat and drink? Modern day pharisees seeking a holier than though position of self righteousness that cast guilt and shame over others.
You may want to go back and read the Bible some more. That is not what it says. The passage in Romans about not judging in meat and drink is referring to the lost judging the saved because of what they would not eat or drink.
Lying about God's precious word -- be accursed.
Perhaps if you attend to more study of God's Word you will not be so quick to falsely accuse His people as you have here.
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Goodness no. It's another way of saying to look to above -- to God. The Bible is clear. All this stuff about grape juice and low alcohol content and everything else that isn't in the Bible is phooey. Alcohol has many good properties when used in moderation and it is indisputable that wine was a central part of daily life in both Biblical times and modern times. What does the Bible say about those who prescribe rules about what, and what not to eat and drink? Modern day pharisees seeking a holier than though position of self righteousness that cast guilt and shame over others. Lying about God's precious word -- be accursed.


I'm sorry, but God is not luna. We look to Him and Him alone. No more recommendations to look to the luna, okay?

Matt, to say that "stuff" about grape juice and low alcohol content is phooey simply because the Bible doesn't say so is absolute ignorance. God gave us brains and the ability to use them. And just because there are people who happen to believe what God says, in the very Bible you proclaim to defend, about partaking in wine being unwise does not make them a modern day pharisee.

Now, your language is distinctly familiar - the luna nonsense and the be accursed. We banned someone who used that lingo: and I'm wondering if he's not back now. Do not attempt to have us "look" to the moon instead of God and then proclaim a curse on US for "lying" about God's Word - it is not truly precious to you if you can counsel someone to "look to the luna" and try to say it is another way of saying look to God. Be warned.
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I agree, the saved don't need alcohol to alleviate their misery, and I think Lemuel's mother knew that very well. I don't put too much stock in commentaries.
It doesn't make sense to give strong drink to someone who is about to drop off into Hell. The whiskey won't do them a lick of good. My Dad died from cancer and they gave him drugs for pain. Back, years ago, it would have been something like Laudnum or whiskey. Tha't's what it's talking about,; someone in physical agony.

BTW, do you think King David made it to Heaven? He seemed confident that he would get there when he said "I will dwell in the house of the Lord for ever"...so did Brother Job when he said "mine eyes shall behold Him..." They were looking forward to the Cross, my friend.

Until the cross, all souls went to one of two compartments of Sheol/Hades. The righteous went to the compartment where Abraham was. (See Luke 16:19-31) When Jesus died on the cross, His soul descended into the lower part of the Earth (Sheol/Hades) to minister to the souls that were captive in the righteous compartment and to set them free. At that time, they saw the One whom they had believed on during their life.
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Goodness no. It's another way of saying to look to above -- to God. The Bible is clear. All this stuff about grape juice and low alcohol content and everything else that isn't in the Bible is phooey. Alcohol has many good properties when used in moderation and it is indisputable that wine was a central part of daily life in both Biblical times and modern times. What does the Bible say about those who prescribe rules about what, and what not to eat and drink? Modern day pharisees seeking a holier than though position of self righteousness that cast guilt and shame over others. Lying about God's precious word -- be accursed.


While I agree with you that the Bible does not require total abstainance from alcohol, my main point is that this should not be an issue that divides Christians. People can reasonably conclude that Jesus did not serve wine at Cana, just as people can reasonably conclude that he did. People can reasonably conlude that it is wise to never drink alcohol, just as people can reasonably conlude that moderation is ok....people reading the same Bible can reach different conclusions.

My belief is that moderation is ok. I have not been convicted or convinced otherwise. Though if I did feel like God wanted me to abstain wholly, I would obey. Others here, who love and serve Christ, believe that total abstainance is required. I can respect that.

What I cannot agree with is that just because a follower of Christ has a different belief on this issue, it should lead to division. It is not an issue to be divided over. Your statements seem divisive to me and judgmental of those who merely hold a different view than you. They have given careful study to Scripture just like I have and we have reached different conclusions. We can discuss the reasons in a civil manner. However, when you start saying people are self righteous for holding an opinion different than yourself, you too, are being self righteous in saying your way is better than theirs.

And I agree that saying look to luna is not saying look to God. In addressing God, we should use names of God set forth in Scripture. God is has not manifested himself in the moon, and we are not too worship creation. God has manifested himself in Christ, and we are to look to and worship only the Creator. Edited by kindofblue1977
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Until the cross, all souls went to one of two compartments of Sheol/Hades. The righteous went to the compartment where Abraham was. (See Luke 16:19-31) When Jesus died on the cross, His soul descended into the lower part of the Earth (Sheol/Hades) to minister to the souls that were captive in the righteous compartment and to set them free. At that time, they saw the One whom they had believed on during their life.


Does the fact that they spent time in the "righteous compartment" change the fact that they were going to end up in Heaven?
I ask again; did King David and Job make it to Heaven? Because you just said Jesus set the righteous free from the "righteous compartment". Where did He take them to after that?
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Does the fact that they spent time in the "righteous compartment" change the fact that they were going to end up in Heaven?
I ask again; did King David and Job make it to Heaven? Because you just said Jesus set the righteous free from the "righteous compartment". Where did He take them to after that?

Have they gone to heaven? Good question. In Matthew 27, we see that upon Christ's resurrection, many of the saints that slept were seen in the holy city. I believe that this is confirmation that Christ had indeed set captivity captive as was prophesied by Isaiah. I do believe that 'many of the saints' refers to some of these patriarchs that had previously died.

Where are they now? Good question. There is no Scripture that says they ascended, but there is Scripture that implies such. Paul tells us that when Christ comes in the clouds, He will bring with Him those that sleep. This may be referring to those saints of the Old Testament... which would mean that they are now in heaven and will come with Christ in the clouds when Christ receives those who have died after the cross unto Himself.

This could also refer to those souls that returned to the Lord (to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord) coming in the clouds with Christ to be reunited with the resurrected bodies.

More than likely is is both the saints of old and the souls of the post-cross saved who will be with Christ on that day.

Whether someone is in heaven or not is an entirely different topic than which wine is good. You may want to open another thread and pursue that thought. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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Happy Christian: I say look to the Luna eater than look above. It's a figure of speech. But if it troubles you, I will forego. And you comment that Jesus would not give people alcohol makes little sense. It's like saying "God wouldn't create something that ..." when we know he created everything.

And I don't know who've you banned in the past and I don't appreciate being threatened. How do I get the power to ban. We could band together and do some serious banning! Give me the power. War Eagle! (the universal salutation for those that follow Auburn - so you're not bewildered). I want to ban.

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Have they gone to heaven? Good question. In Matthew 27, we see that upon Christ's resurrection, many of the saints that slept were seen in the holy city. I believe that this is confirmation that Christ had indeed set captivity captive as was prophesied by Isaiah. I do believe that 'many of the saints' refers to some of these patriarchs that had previously died.

Where are they now? Good question. There is no Scripture that says they ascended, but there is Scripture that implies such. Paul tells us that when Christ comes in the clouds, He will bring with Him those that sleep. This may be referring to those saints of the Old Testament... which would mean that they are now in heaven and will come with Christ in the clouds when Christ receives those who have died after the cross unto Himself.

This could also refer to those souls that returned to the Lord (to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord) coming in the clouds with Christ to be reunited with the resurrected bodies.

More than likely is is both the saints of old and the souls of the post-cross saved who will be with Christ on that day.

Whether someone is in heaven or not is an entirely different topic than which wine is good. You may want to open another thread and pursue that thought.


Yeah, I thought so too. You were the one who said Lemuel was not a saved man. Edited by heartstrings
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Happy Christian: I say look to the Luna eater than look above. It's a figure of speech. But if it troubles you, I will forego. And you comment that Jesus would not give people alcohol makes little sense. It's like saying "God wouldn't create something that ..." when we know he created everything.

And I don't know who've you banned in the past and I don't appreciate being threatened. How do I get the power to ban. We could band together and do some serious banning! Give me the power. War Eagle! (the universal salutation for those that follow Auburn - so you're not bewildered). I want to ban.



I know what War Eagle is, thank you. Yes, it does trouble me. Thank you for foregoing - figures of speech in which God is replaced by the moon are not scriptural.

Jesus would give people alcohol to get them drunk (which is what I specifically said)? Oh, then Habbakuk 2:15 is a contradiction. Yes, God created grapes with alcohol content in them...but it is man that turned it into something on which a person can get drunk.

Ah, I didn't threaten you. I warned you. And my warnings are always promises. :coolsmiley:
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I know what War Eagle is, thank you. Yes, it does trouble me. Thank you for foregoing - figures of speech in which God is replaced by the moon are not scriptural.

Jesus would give people alcohol to get them drunk (which is what I specifically said)? Oh, then Habbakuk 2:15 is a contradiction. Yes, God created grapes with alcohol content in them...but it is man that turned it into something on which a person can get drunk.

Ah, I didn't threaten you. I warned you. And my warnings are always promises. :coolsmiley:


God created alcohol. He created everything. And I want the power to ban. It is important that I receive the power, to protect them. I want to ban. What must I do to be ordained with the power? I want to ban. War Eagle! Hey!
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God created alcohol. He created everything. And I want the power to ban. It is important that I receive the power, to protect them. I want to ban. What must I do to be ordained with the power? I want to ban. War Eagle! Hey!


I know what God created.

Sorry, but you don't qualify for the power...mockery isn't becoming of a Christian who is supposed to be having a serious discussion.

Dennnis - :D I've always thought CS actually meant "whining!" :biggrin:
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