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Are These Two Theories Biblical?


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Are The Theories Of Theistic Evolutionism And Old Earth Creationism Biblical?  

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  1. 1. Are The Theories Of Theistic Evolutionism And Old Earth Creationism Biblical?

    • No.
      20
    • I don't know.
      1
    • Yes.
      3


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I believe the Bible when it says that evening and morning were the days...not thousands of years each. Goodness' date=' why in the world would God need thousands of years to say "let there be light?!?" :lol:[/quote']


:goodpost: Amen!




Thank you - God!! :smile

The First Book of Moses Called Genesis Chapter 1 - really sums it up. "The History of Creation"

In Christ Jesus ~

Molly
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The Bible is not a science book, and was not written for the purpose of saying how God created the world.

I believe in an old earth. I believe in evolution within a species, though I do not believe in cross species evolution. I do believe that species evolve and change over time. Look at us...we have become taller and larger over time. We have developed a tolerance for lactose, etc.

No one was there when God created the world. No one knows how he did it. Genesis chapter 1 was written to be very poetic and to reveal a part of the nature of God. It was not written as a scientific treatise.

Even if God did create it in 7 literal days (which I am not at all convinced of), it cannot be disputed that he took billions of years designing the universe and the earth prior to its creation. I don't think God just woke up one day and said, "Oh, I'm going to create the world" and the the next day started speaking it into existence. The universe is far to complex for that.

I believe God caused things to happen for the earth to come into being. I believe he caused the Big Bang, and knew exactely what he was doing.

Science explores our curiosity about creation, religion our awe of creation.

There are many things in the Bible not to be taken literally. Psamls are fillled with examples, as is Revelation. The first couple of chapters in Genesis seems to me to be written in poetic form, and poetry is not to be taken completely literal. It uses form, language and images to convey a message.

The message of the creation story? To tell us that God created, what God created was good, that God created man in his image, and that creation is fallen and in need of redemption.

Does it matter how God creted the world? No. What matters is that we recognize him as the creator and our need of redemption. That is the message of Scripture.

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The universe is far too complex? God is a God of complexities, and He can do whatever He wants! If He desired to speak it into existence in 7 days, He could. Of coures He didn't just wake up and speak it - He's known for all of eternity past that earth would be created.

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The universe is far too complex? God is a God of complexities' date=' and He can do whatever He wants! If He desired to speak it into existence in 7 days, He could. Of coures He didn't just wake up and speak it - He's known for all of eternity past that earth would be created.[/quote']

I'm just saying that this universe was not created without billions of years of forethought. God, I'm sure, made extensive plans. A person does not go out and decide to build a house on day 1, and and day 2 start building. He studies the land, studies designs, thinks about the needs, etc.

God is a God of detail. I have no doubt that he went into great deatail in planning this world. Doing so would have taken an extraordianry amount of time. Of course, God being eternal, had billions of years to design this universe.

I don't like to argue about how God created the world. Because when it comes down to it, none of use know for certain. No person was there to witness the spectacular event. I find it counter productive to argue about whether he created it in 6 literal days or whether the 6 days were merely poetic and figurative to convey a greater message. What we can all agree on is God created the world, the world is now fallen, and is need of his grace and redemption.
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I understand what you're saying - and I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement!!!

I know God is a God of detail. I'm sure you would agree that one can't escape knowing that when one studies the Word of God! My only hitch with the idea of his planning taking an extraordinary amount of time (it could've, I'm not saying it didn't) is that God, being God Almighty, really wouldn't need to plan - and even if He did plan, He wouldn't need an extraordinary amount of time - He is God and knows all things, so He knew what He was going to do all along. KWIM?

What greater message could be conveyed in believing that the 6 days are poetic and figurative? The message I get from Genesis 1 is that God is all powerful - just the words out of His mouth created something beautiful from nothing. That's pretty great a message, IMO!!
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I understand what you're saying - and I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement!!!

I know God is a God of detail. I'm sure you would agree that one can't escape knowing that when one studies the Word of God! My only hitch with the idea of his planning taking an extraordinary amount of time (it could've, I'm not saying it didn't) is that God, being God Almighty, really wouldn't need to plan - and even if He did plan, He wouldn't need an extraordinary amount of time - He is God and knows all things, so He knew what He was going to do all along. KWIM?

What greater message could be conveyed in believing that the 6 days are poetic and figurative? The message I get from Genesis 1 is that God is all powerful - just the words out of His mouth created something beautiful from nothing. That's pretty great a message, IMO!!


:amen:

What can God NOT do? Our God knows the thoughts of 6 billion people right now. He can hear every prayer offered at the same time around th world and respons perfectly. He knows everything that has and will happen. He can, and did, create the world just as He said He did in His Word.
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My problem in saying that God just could have done it and did not need that much time to design this world is that in my mind that simplifies God and takes away the complexity and beauty of his his nature in the way I think about God.

Man is created in the image of God. Mand cannot build a building without forthought and design. In the same way, I don't think God could have just created the world without forthought and design. That would go against the very nature of God.

The Bible is an intricate book and is put together very coherently. It is not a coincidence that Jesus fulfilled OT prophesy. That, again, shows forthought and design by God.

An author does not sit down and write a book without design in advance.

I am not limiting God in any way. I am just saying that it is in God's character to design things of beauty. He laid out the foundation of the world in his mind before he even began creating. Something so intricate, so beautiful, could not have been created on a whim. To do so would go against the very nature of God being very detailed and involved in his creation.

I think we all agree here, but just think about different aspects of God. You are focussing on God being all powerful, which he is. I am focussing on God being caring, detailed, and complex, which he his. It all depends on how you look at God.

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My problem in saying that God just could have done it and did not need that much time to design this world is that in my mind that simplifies God and takes away the complexity and beauty of his his nature in the way I think about God.

Man is created in the image of God. Mand cannot build a building without forthought and design. In the same way, I don't think God could have just created the world without forthought and design. That would go against the very nature of God.

The Bible is an intricate book and is put together very coherently. It is not a coincidence that Jesus fulfilled OT prophesy. That, again, shows forthought and design by God.

An author does not sit down and write a book without design in advance.

I am not limiting God in any way. I am just saying that it is in God's character to design things of beauty. He laid out the foundation of the world in his mind before he even began creating. Something so intricate, so beautiful, could not have been created on a whim. To do so would go against the very nature of God being very detailed and involved in his creation.

I think we all agree here, but just think about different aspects of God. You are focussing on God being all powerful, which he is. I am focussing on God being caring, detailed, and complex, which he his. It all depends on how you look at God.

I see where you're coming from here. And I agree that He is complex, detailed and caring!! And I am thrilled that He is all of that. But it is all combined with His power! Becase He is Who He is, I believe that He can create a world as beatiful, complex, detailed and wonderful as ours just by the Word of His mouth. And that includes all of His attributes, not just His power!

Yes, man was made in His image - but man is not anywhere near Him in our abilities, so we need to do a lot of things God wouldn't need to do! We are imperfect, He is perfect (I know you know that...), therefore we cannot just speak something into existence. But God can! How awesome a thought is that!?!

I don't think you are limiting God! It's how you are looking at something, and it's interesting to discuss it. I do, however, think many times that we humans forget that our thoughts and ways are not His! We are so limited and finite, and He is unlimited and infinite. And that is such a wonderful thought...who would want a God who was no better than we are?
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The Bible is not a science book, and was not written for the purpose of saying how God created the world.

I believe in an old earth. I believe in evolution within a species, though I do not believe in cross species evolution. I do believe that species evolve and change over time. Look at us...we have become taller and larger over time. We have developed a tolerance for lactose, etc.

No one was there when God created the world. No one knows how he did it. Genesis chapter 1 was written to be very poetic and to reveal a part of the nature of God. It was not written as a scientific treatise.

Even if God did create it in 7 literal days (which I am not at all convinced of), it cannot be disputed that he took billions of years designing the universe and the earth prior to its creation. I don't think God just woke up one day and said, "Oh, I'm going to create the world" and the the next day started speaking it into existence. The universe is far to complex for that.

I believe God caused things to happen for the earth to come into being. I believe he caused the Big Bang, and knew exactely what he was doing.

Science explores our curiosity about creation, religion our awe of creation.

There are many things in the Bible not to be taken literally. Psamls are fillled with examples, as is Revelation. The first couple of chapters in Genesis seems to me to be written in poetic form, and poetry is not to be taken completely literal. It uses form, language and images to convey a message.

The message of the creation story? To tell us that God created, what God created was good, that God created man in his image, and that creation is fallen and in need of redemption.

Does it matter how God creted the world? No. What matters is that we recognize him as the creator and our need of redemption. That is the message of Scripture.

...Sir, it can indeed be disputed that God spent billions of years building/designing the universe. There's no reason to believe it, because science disproves it, and the Bible itself does, according to the geneaologies (if you count them up, it reveals the world is roughly six thousand years old, I believe). You are right, though - no one was there. Excepts God. And He makes it clear in His Word exactly how the world was created in Genesis 1. He must have considered it important, as He mentioned His six-day creation again in Exodus 20.

The Big Bang and an Old Earth is not compatible with the Bible, unless you consider God to be a liar.

Sir, exactly what evidences do you have that Genesis 1, 1-2:3, or Genesis 1-11 (I'm not sure which view you hold) is not meant to be taken literally?
My problem in saying that God just could have done it and did not need that much time to design this world is that in my mind that simplifies God and takes away the complexity and beauty of his his nature in the way I think about God.

I have to address this.

Sir, if you think God is not powerful and wise enough to create the world in six days, you're the one simplifying God. He could have created the world in one-one millionth of a second if He had wanted to. However, He didn't; He did it in six days. Why? To create the week. Look at Exodus 20.

Sir, if I believed what you believed about God, I might should just as well not even go to church on Sundays. Because I don't see how that God is worthy of my worship.
God bless,
Crushmaster.
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Crush:

I'm saying that even if God did create the world in 6 literal days, I believe he spent millions, if not billions of years desigining the world before he spoke. Nothing in the Bible supports or denies this, it is just my belief. If God is eternal, and has been here for trillions and trillions of years, millions or even billions of years is just a blink of an eye to God. The universe is so extraordinarily complex, I have no doubts in my mind that he spent a large amount of "time" concieving of the universe, planning it, planning the earth, etc.

As far as Genesis chapter 1 and 2, it is all highly poetical. The structure, the meter, the way it is put together is poetical. Poetic language is almost never to be taken literally, as poetic langauge creates images in one's mind.

An old earth view can be consistent with the bible. The Bible was not written as a science book. Furthermore, who is to say that Adam and Eve were not in the garden for millions of years prior to the fall. Prior to the fall, creation was perfect, and there was not a need to count time. WHen Adam and Eve left the garden, the world was populated by other civilizations by that time. Cain was afraid of what others might do to him after he murdered Abel. Where did these people come from? Perhaps Adam an Eve lived the the garden for many, many, many thousands or millions of years prior to the fall.

Just a few of my thoughts.

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Crush:

I'm saying that even if God did create the world in 6 literal days, I believe he spent millions, if not billions of years desigining the world before he spoke. Nothing in the Bible supports or denies this, it is just my belief. If God is eternal, and has been here for trillions and trillions of years, millions or even billions of years is just a blink of an eye to God. The universe is so extraordinarily complex, I have no doubts in my mind that he spent a large amount of "time" concieving of the universe, planning it, planning the earth, etc.

Sir, your view of God sounds like you believe God to be an absolute fool, if it took Him that long.

Furthermore, that has nothing to do with whether or not the earth is old or not.
As far as Genesis chapter 1 and 2' date=' it is all highly poetical. The structure, the meter, the way it is put together is poetical. Poetic language is almost never to be taken literally, as poetic langauge creates images in one's mind. [/quote']
Creates images in one's mind? Sir, virtually any descriptive text puts images in one's mind! Does that mean the Gospels are not meant to be taken literally?

That is simply not valid evidence for them to not be taken literally.

Sir, I am afraid the "thousands/millions/etc. years in the Garden" view is simply Biblically impossible. Look:
(Genesis 1:27-28) - "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. {28} And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."

God commanded Adam and Eve to reproduce (that is; be fruitful and multiply); I do not think He would let them run around the Garden for several thousand/million/billion years. That is simply illogical. From implications in the text, it would appear they were in the Garden a short period of time, especially because of this command.
God bless,
Crushmaster.
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I don't think God is a fool. On the contrary, it is incredible the design that he has completed in his creation. It would go against the very nature of God to do something on a whim. If, as you propose, God just one day woke up and say, "I'm going to create the universe," and then spoke it into existence, that seems to go against his very nature. History has played itself out over thousands of years until the birth, death, and ressurection of Christ, and it continues to be played out, as written and directed by God today. What makes you think desining the world is any different? A builder does not merely go out and build a masterpiece house one day with no forethought. Years and years of planning went into looking at designs, drawing up plans, looking at the geography, changing plans, revising plans, coming up with a vision, and planning out how to carry out that vision.

If we are created in the image of God, and it is in our nature to plan things before doing it, is it not reasonable to say that it is in God's nature also? Look at the design of this place. It is astounding. It is amazing. To say that God merely snapped his fingers, and it was, is very simplistic, and explains absolutely nothing, and does not reveal anything of the nature of God. He laid the foundations of the earth, and planned it out. This is not my mere human limitation of understanding, but it is the way nature works. God designed a natural order. Part of that natural order is to plan things out before we accomplish them. That is part of the image of God. God also designed everything here, and I believe it took an extraordinary amount of time. Man could never figure all of this out, only God could, but the design is so intricate, he took great care in the design.

As far as time spent in the Garden, the Bible is silent. I believe they reproduced in the Garden, and by the time of the fall of man, civilization has been established. Where else would the people Cain was afraid of have come from? They came from somewhere.

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