Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Tradition - what are your thoughts?


Guest "I am chief"

Recommended Posts

How important was tradition to Jesus? Two of the Gospels record Christ's thoughts on tradition none appear favorable.
Matthew 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
Matthew 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Mark 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

How important was tradition to the Apostles? There are four times tradition/s are spoken of by Paul, two favorably and two unfavorably.
Galatians 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

There is one time when Peter spoke unfavorably of tradition.
1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

Is Christ's disdain for tradition only because He is speaking with the Jews?
Does Paul's favor of tradition end with the N.T. gospels and epistles?
Do you think Peter's dislike for tradition is based on hearing Christ's comments; or because he also is addressing the Jews, or both?
What might be determined concerning the importance of traditions in the New Testament Church?
Could a reasonable outlook, possibly even doctrine, be formed from the Bible on tradition?
Does the "schoolmaster...OT" shed light on following tradition?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Is it a biblical tradition that abides by the Word or simply a man-made tradition, one that may add to or subtract from the Word?

A tradition is neither good or evil of itself, it's a matter of what that tradition may be. A son may follow the tradition of being a godly man like his dad, grandpa and great-grandpa while another son may follow the tradition of being a swindler like his dad, grandpa and great-grandpa.

One family may have the tradition of having family devotionals while another may have a tradition of getting their kids drunk on their 16th birthday.

From Scripture it seems that traditions that lead one away from God, which deviate from the Word, which focus upon externals rather than ones heart being right with God, are condemned.

In the OT we have the example of the family which held to the tradition of their fathers in not drinking wine, even after many generations, and they were held up as an example because their stand was in accord with the Word.

Paul seems to indicate that if we keep proper Chrisitan traditions, such as he taught, then we do well, but at the same time to avoid those traditions which oppose or detract from or add to the Word.

Unfortunately, Orthodox and Catholics use misuse Paul's statement in 2 Thessalonians 2:15 to support their unbiblical traditions. In my own experiences, the Orthodox are especially quick to quote this passage as justification for their traditions. Without any proof they declare that the traditions of their church are those which Paul was speaking of but which were never recorded in Scripture.

As with all things, Godly wisdom and discernment are needed when considering any tradition.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Ac 2:42 ¶ And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
Ac 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
Ac 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
Ac 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
Ac 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
Ac 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The early Christians had a tradition, a very good one, seems few of us follow it nowadays. I figure that's why many families have children that has grown up and left all their godly teachings behind.

De 4:14 And the LORD commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go over to possess it.

De 6:1 Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:

De 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.

Seems God has even tried to teach us to uphold certain traditions of which we have been failures. Yet, most Christians looks on them self as being a good Christian, not what we really are.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
The Blue Letter Bible gives a helpful note & 13 examples.

It would appear to mean "giving over" verbal instruction, based on the written word. The Pharisees had received tradition from the rabbis which expanded Moses in a way that obfuscated the Law of God.

The Apostles taught by giving verbal instruction about Jesus based on the OT Scriptures. This was a new, Spirit-given teaching, aka "tradition" and was presumably passed on as Apostolic tradition. Such traditions were capable of distortion, so they wrote letters to the churches so their teaching became secured & authenticated by the NT Scriptures.

Tradition now has no authority - we have the Bible.
Link to comment
Share on other sites


The Blue Letter Bible gives a helpful note & 13 examples.

It would appear to mean "giving over" verbal instruction, based on the written word. The Pharisees had received tradition from the rabbis which expanded Moses in a way that obfuscated the Law of God.

The Apostles taught by giving verbal instruction about Jesus based on the OT Scriptures. This was a new, Spirit-given teaching, aka "tradition" and was presumably passed on as Apostolic tradition. Such traditions were capable of distortion, so they wrote letters to the churches so their teaching became secured & authenticated by the NT Scriptures.

Tradition now has no authority - we have the Bible.


Bold above...Yes, I can see this from Paul's discourse to the Thessalonians after some erroneous doctrine was introcduced which caused confusion at Thessalonica. Letters were cherished and shared among the churches on many occassions.

...and, Yes I understand there was some oral tradition even among the Apostles because...they didn't have the coplete canon, i.e. complete Bible.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

What "traditions" do "we" believe & teach ????

Traditions generally accepted but are not explicitly taught in Scripture. I'm not suggesting that these doctrines & practices should be discussed here, except to the extent they are received by tradition rather than Scripture.

Baptism of babies;
Bishops, archbishops & popes having authority over many churches;
Hymns written by men, rather than the Psalms. hymns & spiritual songs of Scripture;
Sunday worship;
Church buildings; (& synagogues in NT times);
Organs;
Vestments;
Immersion baptism;
A future millennium AFTER Jesus returns;
Israel having a future as a political nation;
The rapture, as distinct from the resurrection;
A marriage service as distinct from a celebration of the families;
Celibacy of clergy;
Monastries & Convents;
Authority of the KJV;
Bible colleges;

I'm sure there will be agreement & disagreement, but I am making a point. What traditions do you practise?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


What "traditions" do "we" believe & teach ????

Traditions generally accepted but are not explicitly taught in Scripture. I'm not suggesting that these doctrines & practices should be discussed here, except to the extent they are received by tradition rather than Scripture.

Baptism of babies;
Bishops, archbishops & popes having authority over many churches;
Hymns written by men, rather than the Psalms. hymns & spiritual songs of Scripture;
Sunday worship;
Church buildings; (& synagogues in NT times);
Organs;
Vestments;
Immersion baptism;
A future millennium AFTER Jesus returns;
Israel having a future as a political nation;
The rapture, as distinct from the resurrection;
A marriage service as distinct from a celebration of the families;
Celibacy of clergy;
Monastries & Convents;
Authority of the KJV;
Bible colleges;

I'm sure there will be agreement & disagreement, but I am making a point. What traditions do you practise?


Of course this not intended as a place for you to insert your particular brand of theology. Nor for argument over what is or is not confirmed by scripture. However, I see you could not resist under your heading What "traditions" do "we" believe & teach ???? to do so. Why, you would do that is beyond me. No matter, I'm certain we can agree on one doctrine; the efficacy of Jesus Christ's blood plus nothing.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Back to the questions...
How important was tradition to Jesus?
How important was tradition to the Apostles?
Is Christ's disdain for tradition only because He is speaking with the Jews?
Does Paul's favor of tradition end with the N.T. gospels and epistles?
Do you think Peter's dislike for tradition is based on hearing Christ's comments; or because he also is addressing the Jews, or both?
What might be determined concerning the importance of traditions in the New Testament Church?
Could a reasonable outlook, possibly even doctrine, be formed from the Bible on tradition?
Does the "schoolmaster...OT" shed light on following tradition?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members



Of course this not intended as a place for you to insert your particular brand of theology. Nor for argument over what is or is not confirmed by scripture. However, I see you could not resist under your heading What "traditions" do "we" believe & teach ???? to do so. Why, you would do that is beyond me. No matter, I'm certain we can agree on one doctrine; the efficacy of Jesus Christ's blood plus nothing.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Back to the questions...
How important was tradition to Jesus?
How important was tradition to the Apostles?
Is Christ's disdain for tradition only because He is speaking with the Jews?
Does Paul's favor of tradition end with the N.T. gospels and epistles?
Do you think Peter's dislike for tradition is based on hearing Christ's comments; or because he also is addressing the Jews, or both?
What might be determined concerning the importance of traditions in the New Testament Church?
Could a reasonable outlook, possibly even doctrine, be formed from the Bible on tradition?
Does the "schoolmaster...OT" shed light on following tradition?

I agree many of the things listed by Covenanter don't fit in with this discussion as they are not actually matters of tradition.

Didn't my post #2 address your questions, at least to an extent? Are you looking for something else?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Of course this not intended as a place for you to insert your particular brand of theology. I was giving possible examples.
We need to examine whether "our particular brand of theology" is actually directly taught by Scripture. Young Christians readily believe what they are taught, & accept that it is Scriptural. It takes a lot of study to change our belief from our early teaching.

Nor for argument over what is or is not confirmed by scripture. However, I see you could not resist under your heading What "traditions" do "we" believe & teach ???? to do so. Why, you would do that is beyond me. No matter,
I specifically said "I'm not suggesting that these doctrines & practices should be discussed here, except to the extent they are received by tradition rather than Scripture."
I'm certain we can agree on one doctrine; the efficacy of Jesus Christ's blood plus nothing.
Absolutely.

Revelation 1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Back to the questions...
How important was tradition to Jesus? Anti
How important was tradition to the Apostles? Their own "tradition" very important. Some trads - indifferent. Jewish fables- anti.
Is Christ's disdain for tradition only because He is speaking with the Jews? Anti trad that negated Moses.
Does Paul's favor of tradition end with the N.T. gospels and epistles? Yes
Do you think Peter's dislike for tradition is based on hearing Christ's comments; or because he also is addressing the Jews, or both? Both
What might be determined concerning the importance of traditions in the New Testament Church? Be sure that what is received as trad is genuinely Apostolic.
Could a reasonable outlook, possibly even doctrine, be formed from the Bible on tradition? Examine all doctrines by Scripture. Doctrines & practices received by tradition should be examined for compliance with Scripture.
Does the "schoolmaster...OT" shed light on following tradition? I think not.
Link to comment
Share on other sites



I agree many of the things listed by Covenanter don't fit in with this discussion as they are not actually matters of tradition.

Didn't my post #2 address your questions, at least to an extent? Are you looking for something else?


Yes, John it did...I just wanted folks to "re"-track on the questions and off personal theology which might be beyond the questions.

Also, Covenantor answered some...again just wanted folks keyed to these questions with an opportunity to give their thoughts. Edited by 1Tim115
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Many things are just accepted.because Dr. So and So taught it, or my pastor proclaimed it...so it must be true.

A person's blood comes from their father...........http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/BTP/Dr_MR_DeHaan/Chemistry/toc.htm

Angels cohabited with women......

Black people were cursed to be slaves

The Devil has access to Heaven

It's a sin for a Christian man to have a beard

'Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm" ....is a protection only for preachers

Traditional beliefs for some.........But what does the Bible say?

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Many things are just accepted.because Dr. So and So taught it, or my pastor proclaimed it...so it must be true.

A person's blood comes from their father...........http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/BTP/Dr_MR_DeHaan/Chemistry/toc.htm

Angels cohabited with women......

Black people were cursed to be slaves

The Devil has access to Heaven

It's a sin for a Christian man to have a beard

'Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm" ....is a protection only for preachers

Traditional beliefs for some.........But what does the Bible say?


You nailed me, I have a mustache...eek.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Many things are just accepted.because Dr. So and So taught it, or my pastor proclaimed it...so it must be true.


Scofield is responsible for popularizing some traditions:

e.g.
The "gap" theory of creation;
The 69/70 gap in Daniel 9;
Malachi's prophecy of Elijah not being fulfilled in John the baptist.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members



Scofield is responsible for popularizing some traditions:

e.g.
The "gap" theory of creation;
The 69/70 gap in Daniel 9;
Malachi's prophecy of Elijah not being fulfilled in John the baptist.

Spurgeon and many other pastors and preachers denounced Darby and his strange ideas. From what I've been reading this year, Darby's ideas didn't get much serious attention outside the more liberal churches until Scofield put them into his study Bible. Even then, outside of America, Darby's views were not broadly accepted.

I also read that newer additions of the Scofield Bible were changed in order to make it more in line with what many evangelicals and fundamentalists have come to hold to on such issues. The points these groups embraced were enhanced while the points they didn't were diminished or eliminated.

I'm finding it very interesting to read about what Baptists, and others, held to in the past. What they did and didn't accept; when some things changed, and seeing what areas past Baptists, and others, held to then and either do or don't hold to today. How much of this might fall under the category of tradition is probably up for debate.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...