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Recommending West Coast?


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March 21, 2011 (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) -

Because of the article I sent out a couple of weeks ago (“From Brother Cloud’s Heart -- the Battle about West Coast in Perspective”), some reached the conclusion that perhaps I was apologizing for the warning or even giving my recommendation of the school.

This would be a misinterpretation of what I was saying.

I do not apologize for issuing a public warning about something an ecclesiastical institution with national and international influence is doing in a public manner.
And while I said that I hoped West Coast’s best years are ahead, and I do, that does not mean that I think they have done what is necessary to make that happen. It was an expression of compassionate hope more than a realistic expectation.

As I have said, I have never seen a church jump off of the CCM slide once they have become addicted to its soft rock sound and entertainment orientation. It could happen, but it would be exceedingly difficult to accomplish even if the leadership were committed to it at a fundamental level and even if they truly understood the issues.

Hundreds of pastors, missionaries, and parents have written to me to express concern about West Coast’s deep and longstanding adaptation of CCM and many have specifically told me that they don’t want their young people to attend such a school, because they have seen firsthand the power of CCM to bring negative change.


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He needs to get off this bandwagon. I've talked to several pastors, including one who has a daughter going there, and they say David Cloud is way off the mark. One did say there was some music that could be classified as traditional "Southern gospel," but nothing like the commercial southern gospel today.

As I said earlier, both Sam Davison and Kevin Folger preached at a conference there, and if there was any CCM going on, they would have walked away from the pulpit.

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He needs to get off this bandwagon. I've talked to several pastors, including one who has a daughter going there, and they say David Cloud is way off the mark. One did say there was some music that could be classified as traditional "Southern gospel," but nothing like the commercial southern gospel today.

As I said earlier, both Sam Davison and Kevin Folger preached at a conference there, and if there was any CCM going on, they would have walked away from the pulpit.


Agreed. He stated his case, now he needs to walk away.

For example, one lady wrote a few days ago: “I am wondering about the things you wrote about the church at West Coast as the vice-president told a friend of mine that they had made a mistake and used some music that wasn't appropriate and had stopped and corrected the problem. Have they told you that and if so, may I ask why you never put that on your website?”

I have gone to the church’s and school’s web sites and to Paul Chappell’s blog and to the online catalog where they sell their music CDs and I have not seen any type of public statement on this matter.

Has he tried calling? :puzzled3:
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I don't think he is an extremist. Sometimes I think he could 'let go' of something sooner too, but I've yet to find something I actually disagree with him in. I suppose, too, that I would probably be guilty of not letting stuff go either if I was on the receiving end of as much flack as he gets for what are wise warnings.

:hide:

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Cloud is an extremist. His material is good on the KJV and so the KJV crowd moves towards him and because most Christians have little to no discernment, they accept everything that is said at the Gospel.


Please explain any doctrine of his that is extreme, since I am with salyan I would really like to know if there is something I need to be looking out for when he is speaking (or I'm reading his articles).
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An extremist is one who holds to positions that are not clearly laid out in Scripture and then stands so firmly on them, that they separate from other Godly Christians who don't agree.

If you don't agree with Cloud, then he will separate from you.

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An extremist is one who holds to positions that are not clearly laid out in Scripture and then stands so firmly on them, that they separate from other Godly Christians who don't agree.

If you don't agree with Cloud, then he will separate from you.


He told me he is beginning to take off all Baptist Brider churches from his website even if they agree with him in all other doctrine, so I see what you mean. When I say "Baptist Brider" I'm talking about those that believe all the saved are still going to Heaven (just not as the bride)...not the ones that believe only Baptist or like doctrine (who are saved) are going to Heaven. The latter "Baptist Brider" doesn't seem to be so heretical to separate but he does, you are correct.
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Hardly likes anyone a fanatic. It seem David Cloud is a fanatic when it comes to God, Christian values.

We need many more that are that way, instead of so many flowing along and going along with the world and its changing winds.

I personally believe that the Apostle Paul was cut from the same cloth, and many of today's pastors would not have him in their churches for fear of driving out worldly people thus hurting their numbers and collection plate.

And no, I don't agree with him on everything, yet he tries to lead in a manner that will keep people following close to Jesus staying away from worldly stuff.

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Jerry##'s

That is just a ridiculous statement that David Cloud is cut from the same cloth as an Apostle.

I have no problem with people who hold to Doctrinal positions and separate over them. However, when you begin to separate over things that are not Doctrinal or in some cases even taught in Scripture, you are a fanatic. It is ok to hold to a position yourself, but to then publicly rebuke a fine institution, he has become an extremist that I for one will not read, though I probably agree with him far more than I would disagree.

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An extremist is one who holds to positions that are not clearly laid out in Scripture and then stands so firmly on them, that they separate from other Godly Christians who don't agree.


That is the sticking point isn't it. B) What I may think is "clear" you may not and visa versa. Matter of fact, from years past, I know that is the case between me and you even though there are many areas we do agree. There are also various degrees of separation, for example I know I wouldn't be comfortable being a member at a church where the pastor held positions like some of yours, but online such disagreements are not quite as big a problem because influence and interaction is not as great. I am probably an "extremist" too though since essentially what your labeling "extremism" is standards that you don't personally share. :icon_mrgreen: Edited by Seth-Doty
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That is the sticking point isn't it. B) What I may think is "clear" you may not and visa versa. Matter of fact, from years past, I know that is the case between me and you even though there are many areas we do agree. There are also various degrees of separation, for example I know I wouldn't be comfortable being a member at a church where the pastor held positions like some of yours, but online such disagreements are not quite as big a problem because influence and interaction is not as great. I am probably an "extremist" too though since essentially what your labeling "extremism" is standards that you don't personally share. :icon_mrgreen:


I agree!



One thing seems to be true today, not many there be that likes a man, a pastor, that points out where others are wrong, especially as boldly as Bro. Cloud does. I disagree with him at times, but I give him props for the stand he takes.


And my comparison with him and Apostle Paul, the Apostle Paul fearless took a strong stand, even with Peter, even if its not popular, and so it seems with Bro. Cloud.







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