Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Surogates? - Pastors and Scholars Please Read and Advise


Recommended Posts

  • Members
I feel that if God does not allow a man and wife to conceive the natural way' date=' then a better alternative would be to adopt a child.[/quote']

I totally agree. Unfortunately some insurance companies pay for various forms of fertility treatments and IVF and things but its very hard to afford adoption. They make it so needlessly difficult to adopt kids. Its a shame.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 67
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Members
It's very interesting the timing on this thread. I have a Christian friend that has been contemplating this exact thing. She would get paid but her true motivation is to be a vessel the Lord uses to bless other Christian families with a child when they can not conceive their own. She and her husband have been praying about it to know if God would bless this.

I personally think that it is a beautiful gift one Christian woman can give to a Christian family. Children are such a blessing. I don't think I could carry a child for 9 months and then give them to another person but I have known people that have and they just feel blessed to be part of something bigger then them.


If her true motivation is to bless, this family, why accept payment?? No offense to your friend, but I just don't think it's right to sell yourself.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


Its sick, really. I know my SIL had eight kids and they are all in foster homes. Well when she had the last baby, there was a barren couple in my hub's home church down south where the kids all were...they wanted to adopt the two youngest ones. Well, the social services wouldn't even give them a second look because they were a white Christian couple.....the kids were mixed black/white....and they rathered put them in a single black woman's foster home!!!!

The only people they would have allowed to adopt would have been us, as we were family, but of course we could not do that....but they preferred to keep the kids in foster care (again, with a single mom watching most of them, pulling in a nice check from the government as she had four of my SIL's kids along with at least four others...its a lucrative babysitting job is what it is) than to let them be adopted to a loving family.

No wonder Christians are turning to possibly questionable scientific practices to bear children.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I feel that if God does not allow a man and wife to conceive the natural way' date=' then a better alternative would be to adopt a child.[/quote']

I agree.
My neighbors could not have children, so they adopted a boy and a couple of years later, a girl. The little girl (a tiny infant at the time) had been abused and battered; it's a miracle she survived. From what I understand, the State GAVE them so much a month. I could be wrong but, I don't think it cost them much, if anything, to adopt. But I will check to make sure on this. I personally believe there are WAY more than enough unwanted children available for couples who can't have their own. Some people even adopt children from China and Russia.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

HS, what y are referring to is DFS (state) placed children in foster care due to the immediate interuption of parental rights caused by some danger to the child. I am getting ready to take in my niece (I hope) due to DFS placement because her mother and father are both unfit to parent and always in and out of drugs (not to mention the neglect). If I am given custody, it will be full and legaln and the state will provide financial assistance for her care whether needed or not, until such time that DFS deems either one or both of her parents fit to take her back and then she will be given back to them. The only way I can adopt her is if both parents sign off and give up their parental rights - which would be very inexpensive (just a few filing fees, etc.). Otherwise, I would have to file for adoption and prove them both permanently unfit parents in a court and convince the judge to revoke their parental rights and allow my wife and I to adopt her - which would be very expensive (my parents spent over $40k trying to get custody of their first grandaughter and did for a little while until the court of appeals changed the ruling and returned her to her mother.

Anyway, back to the point, adopting when the children are already in your custody is not all that expensive, but once the children are placed with an adoption agency, they basically "sell" these children to people for 10 to $20k so that they can help pay the costs of housing them. It's very sad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

[quote="futurehope"]If her true motivation is to bless, this family, why accept payment?? No offense to your friend, but I just don't think it's right to sell yourself.[/quote]

I've seen this idea pop up a couple of times now. Futurehope, what do you mean by "selling yourself?" We all "sell ourselves" to perform work; otherwise we wouldn't be able to make a living. If a baby (embryo) is a "baby"--a separate entity from its parents--before it is born (which I believe it is), then I'm wondering how surrogate motherhood is different in principle than foster parenting. A surrogate mother is simply providing care for a baby whose biological mother is unable to do the same for him. Sure, she's doing it in a "new-fangled," cutting-edge kind of way, but that's really all she's doing. Sure, there are definitely emotional and psychological demands made on the surrogate that aren't always easy to meet...but that, in and of itself, doesn't make this "job" any different that other jobs which are emotionally and psychologically draining.

I actually have considered this topic. My sister has had two miscarriages, and she and her husband really would love to have more kids. I jokingly offered to be a surrogate mom; I have a nice "oven" in good working order. :wink (Please pardon me if that language is offensive.) And then I got to thinking: "What a great idea!" I am not a person who loves to be pregnant; I have never felt a "bond" with any of my babies [i]in utero [/i]or immediately after birth. Of course, I love them all dearly, but have only "bonded" as my relationship with each of them has grown and deepened throughout their lives. I'm a pretty cut-and-dried, unemotional sort...Of course, my sister probably won't even consider taking me up on my offer; the procedure is still very expensive and fraught with ethical problems. And I'm pretty sure my husband would disapprove...but not for the reasons given on this thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Annie,

I didn't post any of this to get into any sort of dispute and, given that it is obvious that we have a lot of differences in our ethical and Biblical standards, I'll just reply to your statement of us "selling ourselves" whenever we work a physical job: A physical job is done externally and carrying and delivering is done internally. Two entirely different concepts. If you care to know, I also think it's wrong to "sell" plasma. If you are going to give of yourself for the good of others, I think God blesses us - as He tells us to; but I don't see how selling your body is going to bring any glory or honour to God. This is my opinion and you can take it or leave it knowing that I tend to be just a little more conservative than what you may like for people to be.

God Bless,

Futurehope

EDITED:

I might also add that not only is a child in the womb an internal thing, it is connected to you and, in some ways, can actually control your body - even to the point of causing your body to shut down. This is far more than going to work and coming home - it is physically attatched to you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
  • Members

I think that surrogacy is a completely unselfish act whether a woman is paid or not. Personally, I don't think that doing it for pay is right, but I don't criticize those that do. As for using the example of Sarah, Abraham and Hagar the problem was not the surrogacy as much as it was circuMVenting God's plan. He specifically said that Abraham's child was to come from Sarah. Rachel and Leah did the same thing yet there is nothing negative about their situation. With that said, deciding to become a surrogate should be done with much godly counsel and prayer. It would not be an easy decision and any woman considering it should be prepared for all that it entails

As for "just adopt" vs fertility treatments, adopting is not cheap nor is it easy! Yes, you can adopt through foster care but you must be prepared to have the child in your home for a time and possibly have to give them back to an abusive, neglectful drug addicted parent that takes a few classes and it deemed "rehabilitated". I have a deep respect for anyone that does foster to adopt (and we may do it in the near future) but it is not easy. And international adoption costs are very high, most starting at $30,000. Unless you are in a position to adopt a child that is severely disabled then the costs will be lower. To adopt domestically is, on average, $20,000. Even after spending all of that there is not guarantee that you will bring a baby home. You can support a birth mother financially during the pregnancy, pay her medical costs and she can still change her mind. I know as it happened to us. When it is over you are left without a child or the money to try again. And if you want to get technical these mothers are getting "paid" for their child. How is this any different than paying a woman to be surrogate.

Fertility treatments can be just as expensive yet you do not have someone deciding whether or not you get to leave the hospital with your child. This is the route that we will be taking next. It is with much prayer and counsel that led us to this decision and there is no scripture stating that this is wrong. It is easy to say God opens and shuts a woman's womb, but in reality disease does that as well. I don't see God having a problem with me using a dr to help the eggs in my ovaries bypass the tubes (that are blocked by a disease) and place it into my uterus. Just as God would not have a problem with me using a ventilator to keep me alive even though he is in charge of life and death.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I think that surrogacy is a completely unselfish act whether a woman is paid or not. Personally, I don't think that doing it for pay is right, but I don't criticize those that do. As for using the example of Sarah, Abraham and Hagar the problem was not the surrogacy as much as it was circuMVenting God's plan. He specifically said that Abraham's child was to come from Sarah. Rachel and Leah did the same thing yet there is nothing negative about their situation. With that said, deciding to become a surrogate should be done with much godly counsel and prayer. It would not be an easy decision and any woman considering it should be prepared for all that it entails

How do you know that it's not God's plan for you not to have a child of your own birthing or blood?

As for "just adopt" vs fertility treatments, adopting is not cheap nor is it easy! Yes, you can adopt through foster care but you must be prepared to have the child in your home for a time and possibly have to give them back to an abusive, neglectful drug addicted parent that takes a few classes and it deemed "rehabilitated". I have a deep respect for anyone that does foster to adopt (and we may do it in the near future) but it is not easy. And international adoption costs are very high, most starting at $30,000. Unless you are in a position to adopt a child that is severely disabled then the costs will be lower. To adopt domestically is, on average, $20,000. Even after spending all of that there is not guarantee that you will bring a baby home. You can support a birth mother financially during the pregnancy, pay her medical costs and she can still change her mind. I know as it happened to us. When it is over you are left without a child or the money to try again. And if you want to get technical these mothers are getting "paid" for their child. How is this any different than paying a woman to be surrogate.

Your numbers seem extremely high, as I have a good friend who completed adoption of a little girl (6 months at the time) with his wife just a few years ago and it cost them about $10,000. As for "paying her for her child": that is a choice of the adoptive parents and a foolish one at that. I know many people who have taken or looked into this "pre-birth" adoption and the only things you have to pay for is the medical bills and pay them to the doctors and hospitals not the birth mother. If you are concerned about losing this money to a mother who changes her mind, why not adopt a child that is already born? In the meen time, praise God that this woman decided to be a mother like God wants her to - or at least that she is going to try.

Fertility treatments can be just as expensive yet you do not have someone deciding whether or not you get to leave the hospital with your child. This is the route that we will be taking next. It is with much prayer and counsel that led us to this decision and there is no scripture stating that this is wrong. It is easy to say God opens and shuts a woman's womb, but in reality disease does that as well. I don't see God having a problem with me using a dr to help the eggs in my ovaries bypass the tubes (that are blocked by a disease) and place it into my uterus. Just as God would not have a problem with me using a ventilator to keep me alive even though he is in charge of life and death.

Your right, it is easy to say that God opens and shuts the womb - because it's true. It's also easy for someone who has money to say that it's easy to make money if you'll just work hard. It's also easy for someone to say that doing art work or singing or playing an instrument is easy if you just apply yourself. The fact is: God blesses us in different ways and some people just aren't willing to look at how God has chosen to bless them, but, instead, to look at how He hasn't and try to fix it. Who are you to tell God whether He should allow this disease to keep you from having children - or just "get around it" by man's ways. I have two good friends who suffer the same situation, but they praise God for having an opportunity to work with other peoples children since they can't have there own.

I'll leave you with this: Think about what happened because Moses smote the rock instead of speaking to it:


Numbers 20

6 And Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and they fell upon their faces: and the glory of the LORD appeared unto them.
7 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
8 Take the rod, and gather thou the assembly together, thou, and Aaron thy brother, and speak ye unto the rock before their eyes; and it shall give forth his water, and thou shalt bring forth to them water out of the rock: so thou shalt give the congregation and their beasts drink.
9 And Moses took the rod from before the LORD, as he commanded him.
10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the congregation together before the rock, and he said unto them, Hear now, ye rebels; must we fetch you water out of this rock?
11 And Moses lifted up his hand, and with his rod he smote the rock twice: and the water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their beasts also.
12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.
13 This is the water of Meribah,; because the children of Israel strove with the LORD, and he was sanctified in them.
14 And Moses sent messengers from Kadesh unto the king of Edom, Thus saith thy brother Israel, Thou knowest all the travail that hath befallen us:
15 How our fathers went down into Egypt, and we have dwelt in Egypt a long time; and the Egyptians vexed us, and our fathers:
16 And when we cried unto the LORD, he heard our voice, and sent an angel, and hath brought us forth out of Egypt: and, behold, we are in Kadesh, a city in the uttermost of thy border:
17 Let us pass, I pray thee, through thy country: we will not pass through the fields, or through the vineyards, neither will we drink of the water of the wells: we will go by the king's high way, we will not turn to the right hand nor to the left, until we have passed thy borders.
18 And Edom said unto him, Thou shalt not pass by me, lest I come out against thee with the sword.
19 And the children of Israel said unto him, We will go by the high way: and if I and my cattle drink of thy water, then I will pay
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

:goodpost: Futurehope!

Childbirth is to be left to the hands of God. God's plan for childbirth is by His blessing within marriage.

As part of God's overall plan not all women are meant to have children. Not every woman is meant to be a mother and not every man is meant to be a dad.

If God has chosen for a woman to be childless then it's for a reason and that's something the woman and her husband should take to the Lord in prayer so they may discover God's will for their lives.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Your right' date=' it is easy to say that God opens and shuts the womb - because it's true. It's also easy for someone who has money to say that it's easy to make money if you'll just work hard. It's also easy for someone to say that doing art work or singing or playing an instrument is easy if you just apply yourself. The fact is: God blesses us in different ways and some people just aren't willing to look at how God has chosen to bless them, but, instead, to look at how He hasn't and try to fix it. Who are you to tell God whether He should allow this disease to keep you from having children - or just "get around it" by man's ways. [/quote']

Futurehope, I think savedbygrace has a good point here...one that you have either overlooked or misunderstood. The fact is that "God is in control" over our lives. Death and life are in His hands...but when we are seriously ill, do we just "let go and let God," not taking any medication or having surgery, because we don't want to interfere with His plan for our lives? Similarly, we say that "God is in control" of our job situations...but when we're out of work, do we just sit at home and wait for God to move someone to call us? No--we take action. Same with so many other areas. Taking action in any given situation is not in and of itself undermining God's control, is it? I don't understand how or why this issue is any different than the ones I've mentioned, especially because Scripture doesn't even address it. Can you explain how is is?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

God designed for conception to take place in the womb, not in a test tube. If we want to compare this to medicine, then why doesn't she just take medicine? No, this is quite different. This is conception outside of the marriage bed and then placed into another woman and then delivered and given back to the egg and/or sperm donors. If it is God's will for a woman to conceive, let it happen in the womb. I have no problem with fighting the disease, but this is not that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...