Question...what happened to Adam's sin?

[Guest]

Strange as it sounds the question remains. Commandments from God are law no matter if spoken or written on tablets of stone. We know corporately the result of Adam's sin (Ro.5.12) but, how was Adam's sin as an individual dealt with?

Judgement in Genesis 3:14-24 and redemption...
Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
...was Adam redeemed here?

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Romans 5:12-17
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Did Christ propitiate Adam's sin under the O.T or the N.T.?

[Brother Rick]

Adam was redeemed and his sins were taken away forever once he accepted the final sacrifice for sins in Jesus Christ. This was done when Christ preached to the souls of the Old Testament Saints who were living in Paradise (He also preached to the "spirits in prison, but I don't think it was a message of redemption), in the heart of the Earth. Before Christ, when a man died his soul went to the heart of the Earth and was either in Paradise or Hell, which at the time was separated by a great gulf in which the souls on either side could actually see and talk to each other.

After Christ spent three days and three nights in the heart of the Earth, he led the souls of the saints and Paradise (often called Abraham's Bosom) itself out of the heart of the Earth and into what we know to be Heaven now, New Jerusalem. Now Paradise is no longer in the Earth, it's inside of New Jerusalem.

It's pretty wild stuff, but here are the verses for it:

Matthew 12:40, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

I Peter 3:18-20, "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

Eph. 4:8-10, "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)"

Luke 16:22-26, "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."

II Cor. 12:2-4, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3) And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

[Guest]

Adam was redeemed and his sins were taken away forever once he accepted the final sacrifice for sins in Jesus Christ. This was done when Christ preached to the souls of the Old Testament Saints who were living in Paradise (He also preached to the "spirits in prison, but I don't think it was a message of redemption), in the heart of the Earth. Before Christ, when a man died his soul went to the heart of the Earth and was either in Paradise or Hell, which at the time was separated by a great gulf in which the souls on either side could actually see and talk to each other.

After Christ spent three days and three nights in the heart of the Earth, he led the souls of the saints and Paradise (often called Abraham's Bosom) itself out of the heart of the Earth and into what we know to be Heaven now, New Jerusalem. Now Paradise is no longer in the Earth, it's inside of New Jerusalem.

It's pretty wild stuff, but here are the verses for it:

Matthew 12:40, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

I Peter 3:18-20, "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19) By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20) Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

Eph. 4:8-10, "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9) (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10) He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)"

Luke 16:22-26, "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23) And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24) And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25) But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
26) And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence."

II Cor. 12:2-4, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3) And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Sounds good to me...I just read them through but, I'll look at them in detail tomorrow. Thanks!

[Covenanter]

Adam was redeemed and his sins were taken away forever once he accepted the final sacrifice for sins in Jesus Christ. This was done when Christ preached to the souls of the Old Testament Saints who were living in Paradise (He also preached to the "spirits in prison, but I don't think it was a message of redemption), in the heart of the Earth.

Extraordinary!

Adam's were covered by the shed blood of the animals that provided the skins.
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Noah was a preacher of righteousness & in the Spirit preached to the antediluvians - now in prison - who were disobedient in the days of Noah.

1P4 adds to that - the gospel WAS preached to them that ARE dead.

No need for all that weird interpretation - just believe what is written.

[Bro Jim]

Amen to all, form the picture of Christ's sacrifice to the completion of it on the Cross.

[Brother Rick]

Extraordinary!

Adam's were covered by the shed blood of the animals that provided the skins.
Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

Noah was a preacher of righteousness & in the Spirit preached to the antediluvians - now in prison - who were disobedient in the days of Noah.

1P4 adds to that - the gospel WAS preached to them that ARE dead.

No need for all that weird interpretation - just believe what is written.

Please clarify, are you saying that Adam was finally and forever justified by the blood of an animal, not Jesus Christ? Are you saying when he died he went straight to Heaven and not Paradise/Abraham's bosom? Are you saying that tea and crumpets are better than coffee and doughnuts?

[Covenanter]

Please clarify, are you saying that Adam was finally and forever justified by the blood of an animal, not Jesus Christ?

Not at all. All the OC sacrifices prefigured Calvary. All OT saints were saved by faith through the blood of Jesus. Hebrews 11 makes that clear.


Are you saying when he died he went straight to Heaven and not Paradise/Abraham's bosom?

Heaven (third or highest heaven) & Paradise are the same (2 Cor. 12), & as a redeemed sinner Adam' soul passed into heaven at death.

You will have to explain your idea of "Paradise/Abraham's bosom" from Scripture.

Are you saying that tea and crumpets are better than coffee and doughnuts?

Certainly. I drink tea, not coffee, & it has for centuries been recognised as a panacea. Crumpets aren't loaded with sugar, like doughnuts.

[John81]

I do believe it's about time to steep my tea. I'm rather enjoying this thread. :icon_smile:

[Brother Rick]

Ah-ha! I knew you were a tea guy. Brits.

The Paradise/Abraham's Bosome thing being in the heart of the Earth is in the verses in post #2.

Edited March 11, 2011 by Rick Schworer

[heartstrings]

Strange as it sounds the question remains. Commandments from God are law no matter if spoken or written on tablets of stone. We know corporately the result of Adam's sin (Ro.5.12) but, how was Adam's sin as an individual dealt with?

Judgement in Genesis 3:14-24 and redemption...
Genesis 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
...was Adam redeemed here?

Genesis 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Romans 5:12-17
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Did Christ propitiate Adam's sin under the O.T or the N.T.?

The first law....
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did Adam get saved here?
Genesis 3:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

[John81]

The first law....
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Did Adam get saved here?
Genesis 3:26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

Wasn't Abel saved?

[Brother Rick]

Wasn't Abel saved?

Good point, that does provide a bit of a problem if men began to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved with Enoch.

I don't think anyone goes to Heaven outside of the blood of Jesus Christ. But before His blood was shed, how could one accept Jesus as their Saviour if He hadn't actually died on the cross? There's no example of anyone praying to accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour before the cross.

I know it brands me a heretic of the highest degree to many, but I don't see how people before the cross were "saved" the same way as people after the cross. Honestly, please show me where someone accepts Jesus Christ's blood as the payment for their sin in the Old Testament. You can make a good argument that people were saved "by faith" in the Old Testament, but not by faith in the atoning power of Jesus Christ's sacrifice on Calvary. The apostles were shocked at the idea that Christ would be crucified by the Gentiles, Peter even rebuked Jesus when He said it. How could the twelve closest men to Christ think that way if salvation was the same before the cross as it is today, after three years of hearing Him teach?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they went to Heaven on their good works or anything like that, they all needed Christ's atonement in the end - but until it could be applied they were in Paradise. I'm very open on this subject, I just see no evidence that people were saved by "looking forward to the cross."

Mark 8:31-32, "And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
32) And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him, and began to rebuke him."

Mark 9:31-32, "For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
32) But they understood not that saying, and were afraid to ask him."

[John81]

Who in the NT prayed to Jesus Christ to accept them as their Saviour?

Is it Hebrews which talks about how Abraham was saved by faith and how he and others were saved by their faith which was looking forward, while we are saved by our faith which looks back (to Christ).

We are told that Christ was there with Moses. There are several mentions of the pre-incarnate Christ in the OT and this is mentioned in the NT.

OT folks had faith in God, they trusted His Word that the coming Christ would indeed come and do as God said. They didn't have to understand that fully any more than we do today; all they had to do was have faith in God that it would be so.

[Seth Doty]

Good point, that does provide a bit of a problem if men began to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved with Enoch.

My understanding of that passage is that prior to that time God was working with men more directly. God and or angels likely talked with men in a very direct and obvious way no one questioned prior to that time. Obviously sacrifices and any other knowledge they had would come by direct revelation from God. You also see that direct and obvious contact in the sacrifices of Cain and Abel. Somehow it was obvious that God did not honor Cain's sacrifice but did honor the sacrifice of Abel. Whether that meant fire from heaven on one sacrifice and not the other or some other manifestation I don't know but there must have been something.

I know it brands me a heretic of the highest degree to many, but I don't see how people before the cross were "saved" the same way as people after the cross. Honestly, please show me where someone accepts Jesus Christ's blood as the payment for their sin in the Old Testament. You can make a good argument that people were saved "by faith" in the Old Testament, but not by faith in the atoning power of Jesus Christ's sacrifice on Calvary. The apostles were shocked at the idea that Christ would be crucified by the Gentiles, Peter even rebuked Jesus when He said it. How could the twelve closest men to Christ think that way if salvation was the same before the cross as it is today, after three years of hearing Him teach?

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they went to Heaven on their good works or anything like that, they all needed Christ's atonement in the end - but until it could be applied they were in Paradise. I'm very open on this subject, I just see no evidence that people were saved by "looking forward to the cross."

I think they were saved by having faith in God and believing his truth when they were shown it to the extent they were shown it. Christs sheep know his voice in any dispensation. Do I think they all had as full a understanding as we do today? Not necessarily, but I do think some of them did indeed have a surprisingly good grasp of what was going to happen.

Some NT verses that support that.

"John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me."

"John 8:56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad."

"Acts 2:29-32 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses."

"Hebrews 11:17-19 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son. Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure."

"1 Peter 1:10-12 Of which salvation the prophets have inquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."


That gives us a pretty good idea that while they might not have had a complete understanding of everything many of them really did understand a lot more through revelation and the "figures" they were given than one might think at first glance. I think it would be fair to compare their understanding of Christs first coming to our understanding of Christs second coming. We might not know every little detail of his coming and millennial reign, but we do know quite a bit about it.

[Guest]

Hebrews 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)

Makes me wonder just how old this order was?