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Pastor Says Demons Inspired My Warnings Against West Coast


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I checked out the church's website, and it had a link to its "Spiritual Leadership Conference." Within that link was a roster of the conference's speakers. I immediately recognized two names (Sam Davison and Kevin Folger) as solid fundamental speakers. I've heard them preach several times. These two men were part of the group that left BBFI when that organization went liberal (I think the final straw came when BBFI refused to take a stand on the KJV). I'm sure those two men would not participate if Lancaster Baptist Church was like David Cloud describes.


Yes, from what I know of Kevin Folger, he's biblically solid and seems to take solid stands.
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I perused his site and so far these are the IFBers that are on Brother Cloud’s naughty list:

1. Michael Pearl
2. Peter Ruckman
3. Gail Riplinger
4. Paul Chappel
5. Jack Hyles
6. Curtis Hutson
7. Jack Shaap
8. Shelton Smith

It took me about ten minutes to find these. We should play a game, lets see how many IFBers that Brother Cloud doesn't like! :clapping:

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I perused his site and so far these are the IFBers that are on Brother Cloud’s naughty list:

1. Michael Pearl
2. Peter Ruckman
3. Gail Riplinger
4. Paul Chappel
5. Jack Hyles
6. Curtis Hutson
7. Jack Shaap
8. Shelton Smith

It took me about ten minutes to find these. We should play a game, lets see how many IFBers that Brother Cloud doesn't like! :clapping:


What's his problem with Shelton Smith? I must have missed that one.

Is his problem with Curtis Hutson to do with easy believism? I recall reading something about that.

I've read his complaints of the others.
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What's his problem with Shelton Smith? I must have missed that one.

Is his problem with Curtis Hutson to do with easy believism? I recall reading something about that.

I've read his complaints of the others.


It was related to Curtis Hutson and it had to do with some argument about repentance.
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I can only go by what is said in his book, nothing more and nothing less. This woman had known habitual sins in her life and she came forward in an invitation telling the pastor that she wanted to serve God. At that point, the pastor should have dealt with her concerning her habitual sins.

A perfect passage of scripture to use is 2 Timothy 2:19-21 - "Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity. But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work."


Can you honestly say you have no sins of any type that you frequently fall into in spite of not really wanting to? It may not be something like smoking, cussing, or drinking but it could easily be something like bitterness, unkindness, pride, gluttony, unthankfulness or any one of a dozens of sins that are quite easy to fall into. I think it is pretty safe to say that pretty much everyone has some sin or sins that they easily lapse into though they are not the same things for everyone and ones that are a particularly bad public testimony may prevent a person from holding a position of leadership in the church. I can't say I see anything wrong with how this situation sounds like it was handled with the information that has been presented. The only way I would see a problem with it is if the woman in question was quite content with the various failings mentioned and didn't really consider them a problem or have any interest in trying to deal with them. If that were the case then should the person express a desire to do something for God 1 Samuel 15:22 would be a good place to start. Otherwise that very verse you quote is a good thing to consider. In a "great house" not everyone is in a place where they are the golden vessel that God can use as a great showpiece of his perfect will. Not everyone is as honorable in Gods sight as Job was who the Lord himself could really brag on and say that he was "perfect, and upright" and that there was "none like him in all the earth". The golden vessel is obviously the best case scenario but the Lords house is indeed a great house and the Lord uses vessels of wood and vessels of clay for many things too though he might not honor them as much as a "gold" or "silver" vessel that better reflect his perfect will.
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I perused his site and so far these are the IFBers that are on Brother Cloud’s naughty list:

1. Michael Pearl
2. Peter Ruckman
3. Gail Riplinger
4. Paul Chappel
5. Jack Hyles
6. Curtis Hutson
7. Jack Shaap
8. Shelton Smith

It took me about ten minutes to find these. We should play a game, lets see how many IFBers that Brother Cloud doesn't like! :clapping:


Michael Pearl is not IFB.....neither is Peter Ruckman or Gail Riplinger.

Jack Schaap I can do without.

Not sure about the others.
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I'm not endorsing them, just asking, why do you say Ruckman and Riplinger are not IFB?


I'm pretty sure if you ask them yourself they would not claim the title of IFB. I believe they consider themselves "Bible Believers".
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I'm pretty sure if you ask them yourself they would not claim the title of IFB. I believe they consider themselves "Bible Believers".


I don't know what they think of IFB, but I do know they call themselves Bible Believers...so do I, but probably not for the same reason they do! Ruckman needs his own category.
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I don't know what they think of IFB, but I do know they call themselves Bible Believers...so do I, but probably not for the same reason they do! Ruckman needs his own category.


Right..."Bible Believer" is somewhat of the "denomination" that Ruckmanites consider themselves. Not Baptist. Although there are Ruckmanites who are Baptist. (I could be wrong....I don't remember if his church has "Baptist" in it but I know they are not "IFB" for sure.)
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Right..."Bible Believer" is somewhat of the "denomination" that Ruckmanites consider themselves. Not Baptist. Although there are Ruckmanites who are Baptist.


I've encountered some of them. It seems they have quieted down some online, or they have moved to areas I'm not familiar with. There for awhile, it seemed Ruckmanites were popping up everywhere.
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I perused his site and so far these are the IFBers that are on Brother Cloud’s naughty list:

1. Michael Pearl
2. Peter Ruckman
3. Gail Riplinger
4. Paul Chappel
5. Jack Hyles
6. Curtis Hutson
7. Jack Shaap
8. Shelton Smith

It took me about ten minutes to find these. We should play a game, lets see how many IFBers that Brother Cloud doesn't like! :clapping:



You know I actually read what cloud said initially about the music at lancaster and I don't recall seeing anything that implied that he "didn't like" Paul Chappel or had a problem with him on the same level as some of the other people on your list. What I saw was that he felt the need to say something publicly about not liking the direction their music has been heading because he wanted to bring some attention to it in the hopes of bringing about a course correction. You may not agree with that but when I read the letter that started this I really didn't see anything to become that deeply offended about unless your of the opinion that if someone is generally on the "right side" they should never be criticized publicly even if you think they are starting to go in the wrong direction and are not doing anything about it. In my opinion if baptists that consider themselves to be generally aligned doctrinally can't occasionally handle a little criticism from people they generally agree with then something is wrong. People like ruckman and riplinger are a totally different situation though and I personally feel about as doctrinally close to them as to Lutherans or Anglicans. In short, not close at all. Way to many glaring and serious issues to overlook or still consider myself to be generally in agreement with them in spite of a few areas of agreement. Edited by Seth-Doty
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Oh brother, Peter Ruckman's church is just as Baptist as anyone else's on this forum is, and so are thousands of pastors and missionaries that have been influenced by him or graduated from his school. Well, I suppose the "one true church" Baptist Briders we have around here are more Baptist than them, but of course, that doctrine is really more Catholic than Baptist.

My pastor graduated from his school back in the 70s, and our church has on its sign "a Bible Believing Baptist Church." We call it that because half of the Baptists out there that claim to be KJVO take no issue with correcting the KJV from the pulpit or in their colleges.

Yes, Dr. Ruckman calls people names, teaches a couple of weird things, and some of you think a divorced man can't pastor (even though you can't prove it and God the Father is divorced) - that doesn't make him not a Baptist. He even ran with the Sword of the Lord/John R. Rice crowd in his early days but they gave him the boot because at the time they had no problem with using corrupt versions and he was KJVO. He strongly teaches all the same historic Baptist fundamentals and claims to be a Baptist, just because some of you would rather associate the name "Baptist" with Calvinists, Briders, and Bible correctors makes him no less IFB, it just shows your lack of biblical, historical, and spiritual discernment.

God bless! :D

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