A local woman, 96, died that was a member of the church

[JerryNumbers]

A local woman, 96, died that was a member of the church I pastor. Her husband was a preacher, never held a church, life long member of this church. His father was one of the founders and 1st deacons of this church.

When this lady's husband retired at about 62 years of age way before I come on the scene, he and wife traveled a lot never attending church again. From what members said when he retired from his job he also retired from church attendance. Their son and daughter neither attend church, neither do their children.

When I was called to be pastor I visited these people many times, after about 4 years I stopped visiting them and inviting them to church for it seem useless. They were friendly, yet I never felt welcomed in their home, really to me it seemed I was a thorn in their side, it seems I made them happy by leaving, not coming.

I did visit this lady in her retirement home many times, she was always sweet and kind.

Not long back a friend died at age 79, he retired from the u. S. Air Force after 24 years service. Until his troubles begin mid 2010 he was a faithful church member, teacher, and deacon. As the pastor stated, For him God came 1st, Jesus came 2nd, Church came 3rd, them everything else followed that. His son is a Baptist pastor, his grandson is a Baptist pastor, his granddaughter is attending a Christian college.

Enough said, what about you, which example are you setting, and what is your example producing? You cannot and will not produce Christian children by retiring from church, by not being dedicated to God, Jesus, and His Church, you will not produce Christian children if you don't serve God, Jesus, and His Church. Its true even in 2011, you reap what you sew, and no one, not even you, can mock God.

Ga 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Job 4:8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.

[John81]

Preach it brother! I was just praying earlier this evening that regard if I have one year or 60 years of life left, I want what time I have left to be lived for God's glory and honour. I don't want to leave any legacy behind other than that I loved the Lord, served Him faithfully, raised and cared for my family in Christ and was faithful to my home church.

Our pastor was saddened last year as even though we added several new members, our church attendance actually dropped a little. It seems several who attended regularly for years decided they were no longer interested in the things of God and wanted to pursue worldly pleasures instead. Of course, when the husband/wife stopped attending, so did their children. Our pastor tried reaching out to these families but to no avail. We know nothing like this just happens, but nobody saw any signs this was coming from any of these families. Very odd how these families just dropped out as they did.

[JerryNumbers]

Yes, I remember well the country church I grew up in, we had more than 300 members, living members, yet we would do good some Sundays to have 50 for preaching services. I feel quite sure 250 that never come had worldly children that never served God, and they in return raised worldly children that never served God.

And yes, I understand that many think they can serve God with out Jesus' Churches. Just think what shape this world would be in if everyone thought that way.

[Soj]

You cannot and will not produce Christian children by retiring from church, by not being dedicated to God, Jesus, and His Church, you will not produce Christian children if you don't serve God, Jesus, and His Church. Its true even in 2011, you reap what you sew, and no one, not even you, can mock God.

I thoroughly agree, the local church needs to be an important part of EVERY truly born again believer, because we are all lifetime members, amen. God has ordained for us to grow together and serve Him through the framework of the local church, and if you aren't a part of that then you are out of God's will.

Bro. Jerry, why do you use the phrase "serve God, Jesus, and His Church" thereby separating God and Jesus? You do believe they are One and the same, right?

[JerryNumbers]

I thoroughly agree, the local church needs to be an important part of EVERY truly born again believer, because we are all lifetime members, amen. God has ordained for us to grow together and serve Him through the framework of the local church, and if you aren't a part of that then you are out of God's will.

Bro. Jerry, why do you use the phrase "serve God, Jesus, and His Church" thereby separating God and Jesus? You do believe they are One and the same, right?

Why do you ask this question, do you believe in the oneness doctrine taught by the Pentecostals?

What I said was what the pastor stated at the funeral, what I believe is what the Bible teaches, nothing more, nothing else. And at this time I realize that my Savior is setting on the right hand of God being our mediator, just as the Bible teaches.

Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

[Soj]

Why do you ask this question, do you believe in the oneness doctrine taught by the Pentecostals?

What I said was what the pastor stated at the funeral, what I believe is what the Bible teaches, nothing more, nothing else. And at this time I realize that my Savior is setting on the right hand of God being our mediator, just as the Bible teaches.

Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Joh 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

I ask this question, brother, because I never talk about God and Jesus being separate entities, they are One and the same. When I hear another brother say God AND Jesus I wonder where they are coming from?

I don't believe in the oneness doctrine of the Pentecostals, I believe in the Godhead doctrine of scripture. Same as you, right?

Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

John 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Maybe it's just your semantics, but I think saying "God and Jesus" is confusing. Christians believe that Jesus IS God, and if we say stuff like "we need to be dedicated to God, Jesus, and His Church" it can be taken to mean that God and Jesus are separate, when they aren't.

You could say that in Jesus's humanity he was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, but his humanity is a different subject altogether, it's his divinity we are discussing here, and Jesus IS God and God IS Jesus, they cannot be separated. Edited January 21, 2011 by Soj

[JerryNumbers]

Saying God and Jesus should not be confusing, we have the use of both God and Jesus in the new Testament, if we fail to speak about both of them we are leaving out New testament teachings. And yes, I speak about both of them.
Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Would you refuse to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost because you fear it would be confusing?

I asked about the oneness & Pentecostal doctrine for they refuse to speak about God, choosing to use the name of Jesus and will only baptize in the name of Jesus saying it 100% wrong to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost as stated in Matthew 28:19.

Yet I understand we cannot fully comprehend the Trinity, yet we will in that day.

I don't know that I have ever heard a Baptist pastor that did not speak about both God the Father, and Jesus the Son, I would probably be suspicious about one who did not. After all its quite clear that God the Father is setting on the throne, and Jesus is setting to His side being out mediator, and of course I pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus.

[Soj]

Saying God and Jesus should not be confusing, we have the use of both God and Jesus in the new Testament, if we fail to speak about both of them we are leaving out New testament teachings. And yes, I speak about both of them.
Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Would you refuse to baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost because you fear it would be confusing?

It goes without saying that we should speak about our Triune God the way the scriptures have revealed Him, yet like you say we cannot fully comprehend the Trinity...yet, that's why I believe it can be confusing when referring to God AND Jesus, for many will think you are talking about two separate entities. The JW's accuse us of worshipping multiple God's because they don't believe or understand the Trinity, of course they are way off base, and so are the Pentecostals.

In scripture, the word "God" can refer to the three Persons of the Trinity together, and it can refer to only one of those Persons individually. For instance, God is Jesus. But saying "God and Jesus" can be taken the wrong way, it needs to be further qualified. Saying "the Father God and Jesus" would be more correct. You shouldn't have to do a mini Bible study every time you say it though, it should be a clear and precise statement that can't be misunderstood.

I don't know that I have ever heard a Baptist pastor that did not speak about both God the Father, and Jesus the Son, I would probably be suspicious about one who did not. After all its quite clear that God the Father is setting on the throne, and Jesus is setting to His side being out mediator, and of course I pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus.

So when you quoted earlier "we need to be dedicated to God, Jesus, and His Church" do you think he meant "God the Father, Jesus, and His Church?"

[JerryNumbers]

What I'm saying, I have never been a part of a church where it was confusing to speak about God, Jesus, and church as I mentioned what this pastor stated.

And setting there that day and this pastor saying that Brother Clay put God 1st, Jesus 2nd, and Church 3rd, everyone present thought that he meant Brother Clay put God the Father 1st, his Savior Jesus Christ the Son 2nd, and his Church 3rd, and everything else came after that.

Sorry, I just do not understand your problem with it.

[Soj]

What I'm saying, I have never been a part of a church where it was confusing to speak about God, Jesus, and church as I mentioned what this pastor stated.

And setting there that day and this pastor saying that Brother Clay put God 1st, Jesus 2nd, and Church 3rd, everyone present thought that he meant Brother Clay put God the Father 1st, his Savior Jesus Christ the Son 2nd, and his Church 3rd, and everything else came after that.

Sorry, I just do not understand your problem with it.

Jesus being 2nd, that's the problem I have with it. Why isn't Jesus in 1st place with God the Father? Why separate them when they are One? Also, if you are going to separate them, why not put the Holy Spirit in 3rd place and thus completing the Trinity, and then the Church 4th? (Note: I was being facetious with that last sentence.)

Like I said, it's semantics, how we use our words to express our beliefs. I do think we are on the same page Bro. Jerry, we just write it down differently.

[1Timothy115]

When the doors are open...I'm there.

Except, I missed one day of the winter Bible conference...snow & ice... :(

[JerryNumbers]

Jesus being 2nd, that's the problem I have with it. Why isn't Jesus in 1st place with God the Father? Why separate them when they are One? Also, if you are going to separate them, why not put the Holy Spirit in 3rd place and thus completing the Trinity, and then the Church 4th? (Note: I was being facetious with that last sentence.)

Like I said, it's semantics, how we use our words to express our beliefs. I do think we are on the same page Bro. Jerry, we just write it down differently.

Them you must be very unhappy with the Bible.

Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

For according to you the Bible got it wrong.

[Soj]

Them you must be very unhappy with the Bible.

Mt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

For according to you the Bible got it wrong.

The only thing I'm unhappy about with that comment is your accusation that I think the Bible has errors in it, when I believe nothing of the sort. The Bible is perfect and without error, it's man's interpretation of it that is error.

Bro. Jerry, if you're going to resort to that kind of comment I don't wish to continue our discussion.