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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

Is it possible to renounce salvation?


no name joe
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Jerry:

I must not be communicating clearly, or we see things vastly differently.

As concerns your physical seed, it matters not who you come from. Anyone can be saved by grace. Or be condemned by unbelief.

As concerns the spiritual seed (which you get when saved by grace), that is God in Christ in you, the hope of glory. That seed, spiritually, which God places within you, does not allow you to lose your eternal life.

Thus my reference to Jeremiah. When a person is saved, a seed is planted by God. You cannot renounce everlasting life, because the seed is there.

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How about going about it this way, it works much better, & the proof is quite clear, to those that believe the holy Bible is God's true Word.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
2Co 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

2Ti 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

2Ti 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.

I will say, you have a strange way of trying to prove it, its not though seed, who your birth parents, At the moment a person is saved they are sealed by God's Holy Spirit, plus of course God's promise in 2 Timothy 1:12.

Plus:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

After one has been saved, no one, not even our self, can pluck ourself out of the hand of God.

Plus;

2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Jesus made a promise, if we once believed, He will stay faithful.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

That once a person has been saved, that person is not condemned, if they were, he would be denying the promise He openly made.

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When the cock crowed. Peter verbally denied Jesus not only once, but three times., But Peter was lying; In his heart it was a different story as the Bible attests, because he went out and wept bitterly afterwards. The Bible also says that it is possible for a man to "forget that he was purged from his old sins". Our flesh, our old nature, still is at enmity with God. It is not subject to the law of God, it wars against the Spirit. But that Spirit, that inner man CANNOT deny God. It is totally impossible. We are indwelled with the Holy Spirit of the Almighty King of Glory and He cannot deny Himself. We can feed our flesh until we sink so deep in unbelief, we will doubt our salvation. But that is a miserable place to be, I've been there and got the T-shirt. I have been in unbelief; but in remembering how POWERFUL and how sweet it was when I first believed I just don't see how I could ever completely denounce God and His salvation.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

As we can see, God knows if we are really His, even if we forget ourselves. And we can also see that even false teachers also have the ability to overthrow our faith, if we give ear to their lies. Imagine believing on Jesus with all your heart, but later believing someone when they tell you that Jesus already came and left you behind, that would be pretty scarey I would think. We can be duped by liars too if we don't stay in the Word, and depart from initquity.

Edited by heartstrings
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I do think we are saying the same thing.

I am defining it from Eph. 2:10, 4:24, Col 3:10, I Pet 1:23 and 3:4

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When the cock crowed. Peter verbally denied Jesus not only once, but three times., But Peter was lying; In his heart it was a different story as the Bible attests, because he went out and wept bitterly afterwards. The Bible also says that it is possible for a man to "forget that he was purged from his old sins". Our flesh, our old nature, still is at enmity with God. It is not subject to the law of God, it wars against the Spirit. But that Spirit, that inner man CANNOT deny God. It is totally impossible. We are indwelled with the Holy Spirit of the Almighty King of Glory and He cannot deny Himself. We can feed our flesh until we sink so deep in unbelief, we will doubt our salvation. But that is a miserable place to be, I've been there and got the T-shirt. I have been in unbelief; but in remembering how POWERFUL and how sweet it was when I first believed I just don't see how I could ever completely denounce God and His salvation.

2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
14 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

As we can see, God knows if we are really His, even if we forget ourselves. And we can also see that even false teachers also have the ability to overthrow our faith, if we give ear to their lies. Imagine believing on Jesus with all your heart, but later believing someone when they tell you that Jesus already came and left you behind, that would be pretty scarey I would think. We can be duped by liars too if we don't stay in the Word, and depart from initquity.


I think your saying Peter was not lost, I don't believe he was either. He was in a strait, lots of confusion inside, & he even left the ministry, & several other left with him. But later Jesus goes to him & the others, & Peter, & the other reconcile, they got it together, after this, Peter was fully perpared, & he preached the famous sermon on the day of Pentecost, & it seems he was a faithful to Jesus even unto his death.
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If Peter, or anyone else, could be saved with eternal life as we know it before the death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and the day of Pentecost, then the church of the body began before Pentecost? And Romans 10:9,10 did not apply to those people?

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If Peter, or anyone else, could be saved with eternal life as we know it before the death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and the day of Pentecost, then the church of the body began before Pentecost? And Romans 10:9,10 did not apply to those people?


Agreed, but we forget John 17 and I reiterate my point that Peter and the other 10 disciples were protected until there conversion at Pentecost. They may not have been "saved" by the Blood, but they were definitely saved from falling away and protected by God. As good as saved IMHO. Possibly a "special dispensation" or "covenant" specifically for them.

John 17: 1-19 KJV

Jesus Prays to Be Glorified
1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus Prays for His Disciples
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
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Every believer from Adam, to Abel, to Enoch, Noah, Abraham etc. was saved by grace through faith. Jesus is the Word who spoke the Worlds into existence, He is the I Am who spoke to Moses from the burning bush, he is the Son of God who walked with the three Hebrew children in the fiery furnace, He is the "My Lord" whose enemies the Psalmist David declared would, sit at his footstool. He is the first and the last, the Alpha and Omega. He is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world". Old Testament beleivers look forward To the cross whereas WE look backward to it. He was ALREADY slain from the foundation of the world, the Bible says, but He was slain physically at the cross ca 2000 years ago. The day that Peter declare "thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" he was already a believer. The Bible says in John chapter 1 "even to them that believe on his name". Believers were calling on "his name" way back in Genesis 4.

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Every believer from Adam, to Abel, to Enoch, Noah, Abraham etc. was saved by grace through faith. Jesus is the Word who spoke the Worlds into existence, He is the I Am who spoke to Moses from the burning bush, he is the Son of God who walked with the three Hebrew children in the fiery furnace, He is the "My Lord" whose enemies the Psalmist David declared would, sit at his footstool. He is the first and the last, the Alpha and Omega. He is "the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world". Old Testament beleivers look forward To the cross whereas WE look backward to it. He was ALREADY slain from the foundation of the world, the Bible says, but He was slain physically at the cross ca 2000 years ago. The day that Peter declare "thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" he was already a believer. The Bible says in John chapter 1 "even to them that believe on his name". Believers were calling on "his name" way back in Genesis 4.


Don't know if I believe this "grace before the cross" salvation of the OT saints. My bible reads LAW then GRACE. WORKS then FAITH. I can not find one instance, not one where the name of Jesus is mentioned in the OT so how could they call on His name when they didn't know it. He was slain before the foundation of the world because God lives outside/inside and is time. He was only slain in the flesh some 2000 yrs ago and it's the "slain in the SINLESS FLESH" that makes it a acceptable sacrifice to God.
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At least 120 years before the flood, Noah, by faith, found 'grace' in the eyes of the Lord. You can read about him in Hebrews 11. Even today, those who are unsaved are under the law.

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At least 120 years before the flood, Noah, by faith, found 'grace' in the eyes of the Lord. You can read about him in Hebrews 11. Even today, those who are unsaved are under the law.


Agreed and I think I know where Heb 11 is. And yes I am aware that the unsaved now are under the law. But what if Noah decided to stop building the Ark? He would have drowned with the rest of them but would he be in heaven? I am assured that no matter what my sin after salvation is I will still be seated with Christ in heaven as I am already seated in heavenly places with Christ. Were any of the great men of faith ASSURED salvation regardless of there actions after there initial act of faith that placed them in Heb 11? Unless of course these great men had a different covenant with God than the rest of their family and mankind.

Was Noah assured ETERNAL salvation because he built the ark? Then why was he the first to build a sacrificial alter? Was Abraham assured ETERNAL salvation because he was prepared to sacrifice his son?
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If Peter, or anyone else, could be saved with eternal life as we know it before the death, burial, resurrection, ascension, and the day of Pentecost, then the church of the body began before Pentecost? And Romans 10:9,10 did not apply to those people?


I agree, Jesus started his church much earlier than Pentecost, yet there's many that believes it was not started till the day of Pentecost..

Ac 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Seems difficult to add to something on the day of Pentecost when it has not been started.
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Don't know if I believe this "grace before the cross" salvation of the OT saints. My bible reads LAW then GRACE. WORKS then FAITH. I can not find one instance, not one where the name of Jesus is mentioned in the OT so how could they call on His name when they didn't know it. He was slain before the foundation of the world because God lives outside/inside and is time. He was only slain in the flesh some 2000 yrs ago and it's the "slain in the SINLESS FLESH" that makes it a acceptable sacrifice to God.


Remember, in order to be saved by the law, one had to keep the whole law, just breaking one single law, would make a person lost, & Jesus was the only one ever, able to keep the whole law. So being as no one else could keep the whole law, they could not be saved by keeping the law.

Perhaps you think the animal sacrifices saved them, no, it was grace, remember, it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

No, they believed forward to the promised sacrifice on cross, while we look back to the promise of the cross.


Ro 4:1 ¶ What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
Ro 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
Ro 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Ro 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.

Its by grace only that a lost soul can be saved, no matter, what time period they live in.
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I am not denying that grace was part of it. But do you believe that the OT saints had eternal security? Were they eternally saved once off and unable to lose it? Or was it a works based salvation that needed continual sanctification by obeying the law and doing the sacrifices?

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I refuse to use the term "eternal security". It is not found in the Bible. I use eternal life, everlasting life. I think eternal security is a degradation of God's Word. The common thread in eternal life and everlasting life is life, not security.

Their being in the resurrection of the just is definitely based on their believing, and their works following suit.

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I refuse to use the term "eternal security". It is not found in the Bible. I use eternal life, everlasting life. I think eternal security is a degradation of God's Word. The common thread in eternal life and everlasting life is life, not security.

Their being in the resurrection of the just is definitely based on their believing, and their works following suit.


I did a exact word search and looked up "Jesus loves you" and "Jesus saves" and would you guess it - it's not found in the bible but we use it all the time. Would you call these a degradation of God's Word and refuse to say them? Or is this a case of throwing the baby out with the bath water? Typical of most IFB's to find something and stick to it like a tick on a dog. The term "eternal security" means just that - secure in the eternal grace of God who has given us eternal life through the blood of His son Jesus Christ. Rapture is another term not found in the bible - do you refuse that too?
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I refuse to use the term "eternal security". It is not found in the Bible. I use eternal life, everlasting life. I think eternal security is a degradation of God's Word. The common thread in eternal life and everlasting life is life, not security.

Their being in the resurrection of the just is definitely based on their believing, and their works following suit.



John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

The moment I first "believeth'ed" some twenty six years ago, according to Jesus, at that time I had the promise of "shall not come into condemnation".
So, my salvation does not depend on MY faithfulness to keep believing; it depends on the faithfulness and trustworthiness of the One who made the promise.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

....and I, who was dead in trespasses abd sins, heard he voice of God through the power of His Holy Ghost and His Word and was QUICKENED......."quickened" means "made alive". Look at that verse 5:24 again now...it says I passed from death unto life. Salvation depends on the power of God, not us. Then look at that phrase in 5;24 which says "hath eternal life", that means I "hath" it right now......it means I posses it....today, even 26 years later. Edited by heartstrings
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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 0 replies
    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 1 reply
    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
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