Don't Ask Don't Tell

[Cliff Hanger]

If and when the military's "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy is repealed, should a Christian join the military knowing full well that the military allows gays to serve openly?

[John81]

Should a Christian be in a university with co-ed rooms, bathrooms, showers and lockers?

[chev1958]

There are lots more ungodliness going on in the military besides open homosexuality.

[amblivion]

If we apply this standard to the military, we need to apply it in all areas of our lives. This includes shopping at stores that support homosexuality, restaurants, hotels, and any other business. I can tell you one thing for sure though. I wouldn't want to join the Navy when it is repealed! Imagine being out at sea for long periods of time in close quarters with them.

[Cliff Hanger]

I know there is alot of ungodliness in the military, I was in the Airforce for 4 years and saw alot of it and at one point was involved in it. Personally, I wouldn't encourage any christian to join. Unless you are well grounded spiritually, as a christian you won't come out unscathed. There are times that I wish I had never joined. It's a shame because there are many christians who want to serve our country. I warned my daughter, don't ever think about joining the military when you grow up. It's a very immoral place.

[John81]

There is ungodliness everywhere, but just as Christian men and women shouldn't be in close quarters, sharing showers and bedrooms and such, neither should Christians men and women be sharing such with homosexuals.

[JerryNumbers]

I really believe that Americas Military Services is not close to being what it was in yesterday years. Not only in this matter at hand, but also in other matters. One that bothers me is they put restrictions on those that worship Christ, telling some do not pray publicly in the name of Jesus.

And how can a true Christina be a Chaplin, and agree to teach any and all types of teachings?

For instants, if the Chaplin is a Baptist, and some soldier comes to him that is of the coC, he will have to counsel them as a coC. The same with a Catholic, or any other beliefs.

[John81]

I really believe that Americas Military Services is not close to being what it was in yesterday years. Not only in this matter at hand, but also in other matters. One that bothers me is they put restrictions on those that worship Christ, telling some do not pray publicly in the name of Jesus.

And how can a true Christina be a Chaplin, and agree to teach any and all types of teachings?

For instants, if the Chaplin is a Baptist, and some soldier comes to him that is of the coC, he will have to counsel them as a coC. The same with a Catholic, or any other beliefs.

There was plenty of sin in the Air Force when I joined in the early 80s. Today it's much worse and if they accept open homosexuality that will make it even worse yet. Under such conditions, I would not join.

[1John2:15-17]

I too was in the Air Force, 79-83, before I was saved. I then joined the Air National Guard years later after I was saved (and a bit more mature). Although I wanted to serve my country, I also couldn't wait to get out. It was truly sad to go back in for duty on a Sunday morning to find the majority of the members in my unit hung over. It was as if their only goal one weekend each month was to go drink on Saturday night. After Saturday drill I'd go back to my room and read my Bible.

[1Timothy115]

I'm retired Navy and knowing what I know now I would have prOBlems joining. I have 3 sons serving on active duty, 2 Air Force and 1 Army. I believe they will all retire from the service.

After retirement I worked for GE but, I could not work for GE if I applied the standard set forth by this discussion. If you work in the private (business) or public (government) sector today, applying the standard, you would have to leave your jOB unless your jOB were full time in a Christian ministry and surrounded by Christians.

I think this is where we have to apply "the salt of the earth" and "in the world not of the world."

The military is a great ministry to a grounded Christian.

P.S. I never had to curse at the sailors who worked for me onboard ship. They knew I didn't condone it either.

[Kubel]

I'm a libertarian, so I believe people should be free to control their own lives without the government telling people what to do, and that includes telling them whether or not they can be gay. However, everyone knows that when you join the military, you are agreeing to be shaped by the military into the killing machine that they desire. So if the military is for DADT because gays make bad soldiers, then so be it. On the flip side, if the military ever determined that Christians make bad soldiers (which is far from the truth), and prohibited them from enlisting, I would have to accept that as well. Soldiers lose their freedom and many of their rights when they join. Don't expect a democracy where you have a say in the matter.

In short, if you don't like DADT, or don't like that it will be repealed, then the best advice I can give is- don't join.

[Crushmaster]

Alright. Let's go back to the Civil War - specifically, the South. If I recall correctly, General Stonewall Jackson was immersing people, there was preaching, praying, etc. Back a good bit further. Washington and his men run a homosexual officer out of camp.

Hmm.

Alright, let's look at WWI. Women are starting to be allowed in. WWII. Women as "soldiers" and such. Later. You can't pray in Jesus' Name. Now, homosexuals will prOBably be allowed to serve openly.

Hmm.

Your CIC is a godless heathen and a wicked man (umm...like every single president since...umm). There's nothing Christian about it. You're told not to evangelize.

Et cetera, et cetera.

Hmm.

Why would a Christian male want to be in the military (yes, I do say male with a reason). The real battle is here, and it is much more dangerous, for the enemies are unseen, and they are very powerful.
God bless,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.

[John81]

The difference between working in a business where homosexuals openly work, and being in the military with open homosexuality is great. First off, in a place of business I don't have to share a room or dorm with homosexuals. I don't have to take a shower with homosexuals, I don't have to share a bathroom or undress and dress in front of homosexuals.

Last month there was a report on the radio pointing out how homosexual assaults on non-homosexuals in the military has skyrocketed. Many straight men have awoke in the night to find a homosexual groping them or doing other things. Reporting the incidents has brought about no satisfaction and has even been used against some who have reported these. It's reported that homosexuals are "oogling" men in the showers, making vulgar comments and sexual advances.

In the military one gives up their constitutional rights and accepts being basically owned by the government. The ungodly government is working tirelessly to push all aspects of Christianity from the military. Some comments that have been made in this regard were that if anyone had a prOBlem with homosexuals in the military they should shut up and leave.

As Jerry and others have pointed out, it's increasingly difficult, perhaps impossible in some areas, to truly live as a Christian in the military. Prayers are being regulated, chaplains are being restrained, speaking openly and honestly regarding Christian positions in many cases is an offense.

[HappyChristian]

So, let's just tell all the Christians to forget about the military. Let's leave it to the godless reprOBates. Just like we have done so much of everything else. And then let's all be surprised when they turn around and attack us militarily.

Yep, there are definite prOBlems with the military today. Homosexuality is one of them. Repression of Christianity is another. Drinking is another. Drugs actually not so much because if caught using you're out. Immorality is rampant (it has ever been so [not as bad as today] but is worse now because women are in the military...). So Christians should just get out or not join.

Every jOB in this world poses its prOBlems for Christians. So we should quit? Well, that's what the monks did - leave society to "get closer to God" and to "not be distracted by the world." Whatever happened to proactive witnessing? Christians stepping away from the military instead of getting more aggressive while in there is the prOBlem, not the solution. Soldiers need the Lord. And there is no prohibition on personal witnessing in there. So, even if there is pressure on some chaplains to compromise (sad truth is, there aren't many who go in as chaplains who aren't already questionable in their beliefs), even if there are homosexuals blatantly present, Christians can still witness.

As to the report - I haven't heard that one. But I guarantee you that I know many units where if that were to happen (the groping and the ogling), certain lessons would be quickly taught, while the CO has his "back turned."

BTW - there are many ministries springing up close to bases where the Gospel is preached and soldiers are actually encouraged to attend...

(that's not to say I don't agree that things are terribly wrong...I am kind of undecided about the repeal or not. Maybe we should repeal and then ban them outright. After all, we could cite historical precedent which shows how having homosexuals in the military actually weakens it...)

[chev1958]

The real issue is privacy. If a homosexual gets to shower and sleep in the same area with the OBjects of his/her sexual desires, why don't heterosexuals? Why is it assumed that homosexuals can control their sexual appetites but heterosexuals don't get the same assumptions? No one would dare consider allowing men and women to share bathrooms and showers, but special dispensation is given to homosexuals.

On the other hand, I would prOBably like to know who the homosexuals are, so I would know whom to avoid when taking showers or choosing my rack/bunk.