95 Theses Against Dispensationalism

[John81]

Cool



Put that way, then yes, obedience would be "evidence of salvation. But unlike some, I do not believe that saved believers who due to circumstances and wrong choices do not live lives of evident works are not saved because some Christians do not see their works. Many "Christians" who have wonderful work filled lives that everyone sees all the time have secret sins that they hide. Rather a fallible believer than a devious one. The problem with not seeing that God deals differently with man at different times (regardless of what term we use to label it) is that false doctrines like "kingdom now" , "Calvinism" , "Lordship salvation" and "repentance based salvation" just to mention a few arise.

Just because some people can put up a front of living holy even when they are not is no reason to believe a person can be saved and never show signs of salvation.

No saved person is perfect, and we are not to look for perfection as proof one is saved. What Scripture says is that when a person is saved they are new creatures, they are no longer the same. When a person is saved the Holy Ghost comes to reside within them and they cannot live as before. That does't mean the saved person will instantly appear to be holy, but it does mean there will be noticible change in their lives. It also means over the course of time there will be evidence of their salvation by the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives.

I really don't know how you think believing in dispensations can prevent false teachings or teachings you don't agree with from being accepted by folks. There are charismatics, pentacostals and others who believe in dispensationalism yet also hold to some odd teachings as well.

I dont' know what "kingdom now" is. I know some about Calvinism, part of which I've learned is that what anti-Calvinists think Calvinism is often isn't what those who actually are Calvinists hold to. I know some about "Lordship salvation", and again this seems to be an area where those who claim to oppose have a different view of what it is than those who say they hold to such.

What is "repentance based salvation"?

[Invicta]

Dispensation mens a dispensing of something, not a period of time.

The jews believed in a 6,000 history of the world. First 2,000 years, the age of Chaos. The second 2,000 years the age of the law. The third 2,000 years, would be the age of the Messiah, but he didn't come because they did not keep the law.

[2Tim215]

Was the dispensation of the law for Israel only or all humanity? Yes - for all humanity!!! (Exo 12:48 And when a stranger shall sojourn with thee, and will keep the passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near and keep it; and he shall be as one that is born in the land: for no uncircumcised person shall eat thereof. - Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. )
I really would hate to be under a dispensation where only some small tribe I've never heard of knows about it and can do what is necessary in that particular dispensation to be saved. This is not biblical Do you see where covenants are biblical and dispensations are not? No I don't - both are biblical Dispensations are like mathematical formulas through which God puts everyone in a certain time period through while covenants are explicit displays of God's love towards certain and specific people with whom he chooses to establish a covenant with in any time he chooses. The reason why "calvinists" see covenants is because they fit very well with God's sovereign choice which is evident all throughout scripture (Rubbish!! Ex 12: 48 shows that that the stranger chooses to keep the passover - "will keep" being the act of the person, not God - in God's "covenant with us we must believe - also an action on our part) while non-Calvinists usually lean to a formula type salvation where each dispensation requires a different variable from the person's side in order to inherit salvation. Then there's the strange Calvinist/dispensational hybrid which makes no sense whatsoever.

Tim

[2Tim215]

Just because some people can put up a front of living holy even when they are not is no reason to believe a person can be saved and never show signs of salvation.
I did not say never - Isaid "do not live lives of evident works are not saved because some Christians do not see their works"

No saved person is perfect, and we are not to look for perfection as proof one is saved. What Scripture says is that when a person is saved they are new creatures, they are no longer the same. When a person is saved the Holy Ghost comes to reside within them and they cannot live as before. That does't mean the saved person will instantly appear to be holy, but it does mean there will be noticible change in their lives. It also means over the course of time there will be evidence of their salvation by the work of the Holy Spirit in their lives. Exactly - though I must add that we can choose to grieve the Holy Spirit by not obeying His leading and thus take longer to live lives conformed to the image of Christ.

I really don't know how you think believing in dispensations can prevent false teachings or teachings you don't agree with from being accepted by folks. There are charismatics, pentacostals and others who believe in dispensationalism yet also hold to some odd teachings as well. True, sadly, like the pagans and Muslims, we Christians can agree on nothing and spend more time arguing points of doctrine than spreading the good news of salvation through Christ. But to give an example, by not using dispensational doctrine that shows that the book of acts is a transitional book we have tongues; Holy Spirit baptism as a separate step in salvation; individuals with the "gift" to be healers and prophets and many other false teachings in modern churches. Another being that you are not saved if you don't speak in tongues.

I dont' know what "kingdom now" is. I know some about Calvinism, part of which I've learned is that what anti-Calvinists think Calvinism is often isn't what those who actually are Calvinists hold to. I know some about "Lordship salvation", and again this seems to be an area where those who claim to oppose have a different view of what it is than those who say they hold to such. "Kingdom now" is for those that believe that Jesus has already come, that there is no rapture of the church, that we are in the Millennium kingdom and that the blessings for the Jews apply to all - especially prosperity. Prosperity teachers like to use some "kingdom now" concepts to prove the health, wealth and me me doctrine taught today.

What is "repentance based salvation"?

Salvation based on the precept that it is repentance PLUS faith in order to be saved when it is clear in Acts that it is by faith alone.

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
Act 15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence,

[Brother Rick]

So, you believe there are three dispensations in Scripture?

I don't mind telling people what I believe when they ask, even if I've already said it once before (LINK).

1. Innocence.
2. Conscience.
3. Human Government.
4. Promise.
5. Law.
6. Apostolic Age.
7. Church Age.
8. Tribulation.
9. Millennium.
10. New Heavens and New Earth.

I'll add one thing, just in case you asked me this just to turn my answer back around on me, in-house discussions and debates as to the number of dispensations and the manner in which people were saved during these dispensations are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The point of dispensational study is to recognize that God deals with different people at different times in different manners. Not everyone sees it the same, and it’s not a big deal that they don’t. Edited January 30, 2012 by Rick Schworer

[LindaR]

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I don't mind telling people what I believe when they ask, even if I've already said it once before (LINK).

1. Innocence.
2. Conscience.
3. Human Government.
4. Promise.
5. Law.
6. Apostolic Age.
7. Church Age.
8. Tribulation.
9. Millennium.
10. New Heavens and New Earth.

I'll add one thing, just in case you asked me this just to turn my answer back around on me, in-house discussions and debates as to the number of dispensations and the manner in which people were saved during these dispensations are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The point of dispensational study is to recognize that God deals with different people at different times in different manners. Not everyone sees it the same, and it’s not a big deal that they don’t.

I basically agree with your list, with the following exceptions:

1. Innocence
2. Conscience
3. Human Government
4. Promise
5. Law
6. Church Age
7. Millennium

I believe that%2 Edited January 30, 2012 by LindaR

[Brother Rick]

No trib? Are you post-trib, Linda?

[Covenanter]

Hebrews 11 takes examples from ALL those supposed "dispensations" (except innocence) & makes it clear that all were saved by an active faith in God.

Scofield explains disps thus:

A dispensation is a period of time during which man is tested in respect of obedience to some specific revelation of the will of God. Seven such dispensations are distinguished in Scripture.

The disp concept is read into Scripture & used as a basis for interpretation. The word disp in the sense used is completely foreign to Scripture. According to Scripture, salvation is by covenant - God's everlasting covenant with man. (Heb. 13.) Covenant (sometimes translated ("testament") is used over 300 times. There are various covenants typical of the new covenant, which is secured at Calvary by our Saviour. The New covenant is the everlasting fully & perfectly secured & ratified. (Scofield lists 8, but none but the New (Everlasting) saves.) There is no salvation by man's obedience in a dispensation, nor by man's obedience to a covenant.

We are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus, by the blood of the everlasting covenant.

[LindaR]

No trib? Are you post-trib, Linda?

No Rick, I am not post-trib. I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture of the Church age believers. There is definitely going to be a 7 year tribulation before the Second Coming and Millennium. I don't know why I didn't include the Tribulation in that list...it does need to be there. Church age does end with the rapture.

However, salvation will be by grace through faith...even during the Tribulation period. The Holy Spirit will not indwell those who believe during the Tribulation, but He will "come upon" people as He did in the Old Testament times. Salvation will be more difficult...those who truly believe during the Tribulation will be martyred.

I am a pre-trib, pre-mil, futurist believer.

In a nutshell, dispensational theology is "rightly dividing the Word of Truth" (2 Tim. 2:15) Edited January 30, 2012 by LindaR

[Brother Rick]

The disp concept is read into Scripture & used as a basis for interpretation. The word disp in the sense used is completely foreign to Scripture. According to Scripture, salvation is by covenant - God's everlasting covenant with man. (Heb. 13.) Covenant (sometimes translated ("testament") is used over 300 times. There are various covenants typical of the new covenant, which is secured at Calvary by our Saviour. The New covenant is the everlasting fully & perfectly secured & ratified. (Scofield lists 8, but none but the New (Everlasting) saves.) There is no salvation by man's obedience in a dispensation, nor by man's obedience to a covenant.

We are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus, by the blood of the everlasting covenant.

Who said anything about salvation, Ian? That's not even in the subject. The idea is that God dealt differently with mankind in these dispensations as a whole. God was sending hornets to fight for an army that He told to invade another nation. He ruled a nation directly through a system of laws that include animal sacrifices and restrictions on bacon (glad that rule is gone). That's very different than how He deals with nations today.

When Jesus did show up, He originally told his disciples to preach only to Israel, and to ignore the Gentiles. Then they go around healing people and doing amazing miracles. Before that, John the Baptist was dunking people in water BEFORE they got saved and trusted Christ, not after. God doesn't do things that way now.

Before the law, God dealt with people differently than He did under the law.

Then there's the New Heavens and New Earth. It's a perfect age with perfect people in it. God will deal with people differently then than He does now.

That right there should be four dispensations, or ages, that you as an A-mill Preterist should at least be able to agree with. Edited January 30, 2012 by Rick Schworer

[Brother Rick]

No Rick, I am not post-trib. I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture of the Church age believers.

I thought so, I was just surprised that you didn't put the Trib in under your list of dispensations.

[John81]

I don't mind telling people what I believe when they ask, even if I've already said it once before (LINK).

1. Innocence.
2. Conscience.
3. Human Government.
4. Promise.
5. Law.
6. Apostolic Age.
7. Church Age.
8. Tribulation.
9. Millennium.
10. New Heavens and New Earth.

I'll add one thing, just in case you asked me this just to turn my answer back around on me, in-house discussions and debates as to the number of dispensations and the manner in which people were saved during these dispensations are irrelevant to the discussion at hand. The point of dispensational study is to recognize that God deals with different people at different times in different manners. Not everyone sees it the same, and it’s not a big deal that they don’t.

If I've given you the impression I'm trying to find something to "turn back on you" I apologize. I'm simply trying to understand your view.

It's very relevant as to what view of dispensationalism one holds considering the wide variety out there and the differening meaning some groups give to the same time periods.

Perhaps the most common view of dispensationalism claims 7 dispensations:

1. The time of innocence

2. The time of self-determination

3. The time of human government

4. The time of the patriarchs

5. The time of the law

6. The age of the church

7. The age of the kingdom

In your view, you determine to separate the Scripture even further. To what end? To what end any of this?

I aspect of salvation is also important to the discussion of dispensationalism. Again, dispensationalists hold to various views with regards to the means of salvation in different dispensations. Some teach at one time men were saved by works, some by keeping the law, and some say Jews don't need to be born again in Christ because during a special dispensation they will be saved in a special manner, etc.

When we consider the law, for instance, we see the law has always been there to some extent. Those in Genesis knew what the law was with regards to various matters as we read there. We also read in Scripture that even those who don't know the full law, by nature know some of the law and are accountable for such.

Dispensationalism is a system with many facets and one can't rightly discuss dispensationalism without discussing this.

[Brother Rick]

Well, it looks like the only thing I add outside of your list is the following:

- Apostolic Age
- Tribulation
- New Heavens and New Earth

Here's why:

Apostolic Age: The time in which Christ was on Earth, and for a great portion following during the book of Acts, God was dealing with people differently than He is now. People that disagree with me are called Charismatics and Pentecostals. While God certainly heals people today, you don't see faith healers, water being turned to wine, people walking on water, speaking in real tongues, etc. The reasons why this was happening then and are not happening now are beside the point - God deals with us differently than He dealt with people during the book of Acts and the gospels. This absolutely by no means teaches that we discount those portions of Scripture, it just means we recognize that things are a little different now.

Tribulation: Obviously it's different than now. God isn't dropping giant hailstones on people and turning the oceans to blood right now. He deals with nations and individuals much differently then than He does now.

New Heavens and New Earth: Everyone is perfect. In the Millennium they are not. It ends in judgment, the NH and NE does not. It's a different period of time and it's important to recognize the difference or you wind up thinking that we're in the Millennium now and that the next thing on the calendar is the NH & NE.

As far as the salvation thing goes, I spent three years in my teens going to a Bible institute that taught everyone was saved the same in every dispensation. Then in my twenties I spent three years going to a Bible Institute that taught salvation was different in the dispensations. Both schools basically taught the same thing about dispensations and the importance of rightly dividing the word. They both taught all the same dispensations and the practical differences in them, and how God dealt with people during those ages. Understanding these differences makes understanding prophesy easier, knowing why we’re not Charismatics, why we walk by faith not sight, etc. The salvation thing was different, but it wasn't a major point and it is not the heart and soul of dispensationalism.

[LindaR]

There is only ONE way to be saved in ALL dispensations. Grace through faith. Men have always been saved by faith in God's Word. (Habakkuk 2:4; Romans 4:1-8; Hebrews 11:7)

The Law was not given as a means of salvation. The Law was given to reveal sin and show man that he is a guilty sinner before God. (Romans 3:19-20; Romans 7:12-13; 1 Timothy 1:9-10) It was also give to bring men to Christ (Galatians 3:24-25).

The end of the dispensation of the Law ended at Calvary where Christ said "It is finished" (John 19:30).

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

Edited January 31, 2012 by LindaR

[John81]

What is Dispensationalism?


Written by Michael Vlach

Introduction
Since the mid-1800s, the system of theology known as dispensationalism has exerted great influence on how many Christians view the doctrines of ecclesiology and eschatology. In this article, we will survey the history of dispensationalism and look at the key beliefs associated with the system.
History of Dispensationalism
Theologians continue to argue over the origin of dispensationalism. Those who are dispensationalists argue that the basic beliefs of dispensationalism were held by the apostles and the first generation church. Those who are not dispensationalists often argue that dispensationalism is a new theology that began in the 19th century. What is clear, though, is that dispensationalism, as a system, began to take shape in the mid-1800s.
1. John Nelson Darby The beginning of systematized dispensationalism is usually linked with John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), a Plymouth Brethren minister. While at Trinity College in Dublin (1819), Darby came to believe in a future salvation and restoration of national Israel. Based on his study of Isaiah 32, Darby concluded that Israel, in a future dispensation, would enjoy earthly blessings that were different from the heavenly blessings experienced by the church. He thus saw a clear distinction between Israel and the church. Darby also came to believe in an "any moment" rapture of the church that was followed by Daniel's Seventieth Week in which Israel would once again take center stage in God's plan. After this period, Darby believed there would be a millennial kingdom in which God would fulfill His unconditional promises with Israel.1 According to Paul Enns, "Darby advanced the scheme of dispensationalism by noting that each dispensation places man under some condition; man has some responsibility before God. Darby also noted that each dispensation culminates in failure." 2 Darby saw seven dispensations: (1) Paradisaical state to the Flood; (2) Noah; (3) Abraham; (4) Israel; (5) Gentiles; (6) The Spirit; and (7) The Millennium. By his own testimony, Darby says his dispensational theology was fully formed by 1833.
2. The Brethren Movement Dispensationalism first took shape in the Brethren Movement in early nineteenth century Britain. Those within the Brethren Movement rejected a special role for ordained clergy and stressed the spiritual giftedness of ordinary believers and their freedom, under the Spirit's guidance, to teach and admonish each other from Scripture. The writings of the Brethren had a broad impact on evangelical Protestantism and influenced ministers in the United States such as D. L. Moody, James Brookes, J. R. Graves, A. J. Gordon, and C. I. Scofield.3
3. The Bible Conference Movement Beginning in the 1870s, various Bible conferences began to spring up in various parts of the United States. These conferences helped spread Dispensationalism. The Niagara conferences (1870—early 1900s) were not started to promote dispensationalism but dispensational ideas were often promoted at these conferences. The American Bible and Prophetic Conferences from 1878—1914 promoted a dispensational theology.
4. The Bible Institute Movement In the late 1800s, several Bible institutes were founded that taught dispensational theology including The Nyack Bible Institute (1882), The Boston Missionary Training School (1889), and The Moody Bible Institute (1889).
5. The Scofield Reference Bible C. I. Scofield, a participant in the Niagara conferences, formed a board of Bible conference teachers in 1909 and produced what came to be known as, the Scofield Reference Bible. This work became famous in the United States with its theological annotations right next to the Scripture. This reference Bible became the greatest influence in the spread of dispensationalism.
6. Dallas Theological Seminary After World War I, many dispensational Bible schools were formed. Led by Dallas Theological Seminary (1924), dispensationalism began to be promoted in formal, academic settings. Under Scofield, dispensationalism entered a scholastic period that was later carried on by his successor, Lewis Sperry Chafer. Further promotion of dispensationalism took place with the writing of Chafer's eight-volume Systematic Theology.

http://www.theologicalstudies.org/resource-library/dispensationalism/421-what-is-dispensationalism