Jump to content
Online Baptist Community

Why do we allow women to sing in church


rancher824
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

In the 1828 Webster we find the word silence to mean

1. In a general sense, stillness, or entire absence of sound or noise; as the silence of midnight.



With these two verses being so clear that women are to be silent, why do we allow them to sing? Is this not disOBeying what Paul told Timothy?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

In the 1828 Webster we find the word silence to mean

With these two verses being so clear that women are to be silent, why do we allow them to sing? Is this not disOBeying what Paul told Timothy?


Now that you have pointed these very clear Scriptures out I believe you do make a valid OBservation. If one is literally interpret the Holy Bible then there should be no singing done whatsoever by the woman in the church and they are to be silent. This is the clear and unmistakable intent of Paul, I'm sure of it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

It does say learn in silence...seems to me that means when there is teaching/preaching being done.

If they are the only one singing for a special...where is the teaching?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Lady Administrators

Hmmm - interesting point,Rancher. And if you factor in patterns in scripture, music during the time of Israel was done by the Levites...all men.

Dennis - most of the hymns that are sung in church are usually pretty well laced with doctrine. For example, the song "Did You Think to Pray?" "Ere you left your room this morning, did you think to pray..." That's just one line, but it would seem to me that it could be looked on as a rebuke to those who didn't pray...and if there a men in the congregation....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

This would be a better passage to use in the argument then.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak: but they are commanded to be under OBedience, as also says the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" (1Co 14:34-37).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

It seems to me that for one to be consistent in interpreting this passage one must take the Scriptures for what they say, women are to be silent. If one looks at leading singing/worship in the church as a teaching activity or exercising authority, then the very act of singing must be integral to the learning or authority experience and thus singing must be included as an activity the women must not partake of in church. They must learn in silence as the very act of singing/worship is learning. The must be bystanders and learn from the men as they sing or teach in song.

I don't see why people can't just take the clear and plain teaching of this passage. Me thinks there are many a so-called Christian who wants to do just what they want to do and they refuse to follow the Lord and his plain teaching in this area.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

This would be a better passage to use in the argument then.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak: but they are commanded to be under OBedience, as also says the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" (1Co 14:34-37).


Agreed, this verse buttresses the fact that women should not be singing in Church, but should remain silent.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Maybe we can say "speak" and "sing" are two different things altogether so they can "sing" but not "speak". Things that make you go hmmm?

I can almost...almost see the point of those saying women can't sing as a special but if they are singing in the congregation I don't see that the argument holds water.

So, does this also mean women (who are full members of the Church) are not allowed to speak or vote at church meetings? If their husband is gone are they allowed to vote for him (of course I would hope they are in agreement and have talked about whatever it is they are voting on).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I wanted to post this to make women feel better: :th_tiphat:

The following study, "The Worth of Women," is adopted from the Thompson Chain Study Bible:

I. There were many notable women God used in the Bible.

Eve - the mother of all mankind - Ge 3:6

Miriam - the co-leader and prophetess - Nu 12:1-2; Mic 6:4

Deborah - the patriotic judge and prophetess - Jg 4:4

Ruth - the woman of constancy - Ru 1:16

Hannah - the ideal mother - 1Sa 1:20-12:19

Abigail - the capable woman - 1Sa 25:3,18-19

The Shunammite - the hospitable woman - 2Ki 4:8-10

Esther - the self sacrificing woman - Es 4:16

The Canaanite - the woman of faith - Mt 15:28

Mary Magdalene - the transformed woman - Mr 16:1,9

Elizabeth - the humble woman - Lu 1:43

Mary - the woman chosen of God - Lu 1:30-38

Mary of Bethany - the woman immortalized by Christ - Mt 26:13; Lu 10:42

Martha - the worried housekeeper - Lu 10:40

The Woman Evangelist - Joh 4:29

Dorcas - the benevolent seamstress - Ac 9:36

Lydia - the business woman - Ac 16:14

Priscilla - co-laborer of Paul and discipler of Apollos - Ac 18:26; Ro 16:3

Phoebe - a special messenger and servant of the church - Ro 16:1-2

II. Women portrayed some special distinctions in the New Testament.

Women were the last ones at the cross - Mr 15:47

Women were the first ones at the tomb - Joh 20:1

Women were the first to proclaim the resurrection - Mt 28:8

A woman was the first witness to the Jews - Lu 2:37-38

Women participated in the first prayer meeting - Ac 1:14

A woman was the first European convert - Ac 16:14

A woman labored with Paul and discipled Apollos alongside her husband - Ac 18:18-26

Women contended in the gospel ministry alongside Paul - Php 4:3

III. God used special women to deliver insightful messages to His people.

Miriam - Ex 15:20

Deborah - Jg 4:4

Huldah - 2Ki 22:14; 2Ch 34:12

Ana - Lu 2:36

IV. God wants to use women in special ways to HIS glory.

Their skills are used to provide for His work - Ex 35:25

Their compassion and provision ministers to the poor - Pr 31:20

Their small sacrifices are greatly esteemed by God - Lu 21:2-4

Their kindness teaches respect - Pr 11:16

Their nOBle character is an honor to a husband - Pr 12:4

Their wisdom builds a strong home - Pr 14:1

Their modesty and decency bring honor to God - 1Ti 2:9-10

Their example of self-control and ministry of discipleship produces godliness in younger women - Tit 2:3-5

Their submission, purity, and reverence wins an unbelieving husband - 1Pe 3:1-2

Edited by DennisDurty
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Maybe we can say "speak" and "sing" are two different things altogether so they can "sing" but not "speak". Things that make you go hmmm?

I can almost...almost see the point of those saying women can't sing as a special but if they are singing in the congregation I don't see that the argument holds water.

So, does this also mean women (who are full members of the Church) are not allowed to speak or vote at church meetings? If their husband is gone are they allowed to vote for him (of course I would hope they are in agreement and have talked about whatever it is they are voting on).


Being "silent" is being "silent."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Rancher,
Your proposal appears out of context. I wouldn’t recommend making a doctrine out of what you’ve proposed.

silence
Strong’s 2271
1) quietness
a) description of the life of one who stays at home doing his own work, and does not officiously meddle with the affairs of others
fem. Of 2272, stillness, i.e. desistance from bustle or language
2) silence
and derived from:
Strong’s 2272
1) quiet, tranquil

der. Of the base of 1476 and 2192; prop. keeping one’s seat (sedentary); i.e. (by impl.) still (undisturbed, undisturbing):- peaceable, quiet.

1476 to sit, sedentary, immovable, settled, stedfast
2192 to hold

This has nothing to do with singing or music but everything to do with conduct and attitude while under instruction for learning while in the assembly of the church. It may speak to not bursting out in song while under instruction. I believe the context of the entire chapter would agree; beginning with conduct and attitude toward government, why we must conduct ourselves thus, and finally how we should conduct ourselves in the assembly of believers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Rancher,
Your proposal appears out of context. I wouldn’t recommend making a doctrine out of what you’ve proposed.

silence
Strong’s 2271
1) quietness
a) description of the life of one who stays at home doing his own work, and does not officiously meddle with the affairs of others
fem. Of 2272, stillness, i.e. desistance from bustle or language
2) silence
and derived from:
Strong’s 2272
1) quiet, tranquil

der. Of the base of 1476 and 2192; prop. keeping one’s seat (sedentary); i.e. (by impl.) still (undisturbed, undisturbing):- peaceable, quiet.

1476 to sit, sedentary, immovable, settled, stedfast
2192 to hold

This has nothing to do with singing or music but everything to do with conduct and attitude while under instruction for learning while in the assembly of the church. It may speak to not bursting out in song while under instruction. I believe the context of the entire chapter would agree; beginning with conduct and attitude toward government, why we must conduct ourselves thus, and finally how we should conduct ourselves in the assembly of believers.


Being "silent" is being "silent."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1Ti 2:11,12)

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak: but they are commanded to be under OBedience, as also says the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. (1Co 14:34,35)


I don't think anyone's disputing that silent means silent, but when are women to be silent? It seems to me that the context of both passages above is women speaking when they should be learning. I don't see how this applies to women participating in congregational singing or singing specials (as long as they're not leading men in song).

My church is a very solid King James bible believing church. The women sing. I wonder at what point these types of discussions are unhealthy, promoting discord in good churches. Just thinking out loud here. Any thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Being "silent" is being "silent."

Can a woman speak once she enters the church building? Can a woman speak to a man (including her husband) at all inside the church building? Can a woman cough or sneeze? Chat with a friend? Participate in congregational singing? Whisper to her children? Doing any of these things would break her silence.

Paul says that a woman who prays and prophesies in a church meeting with her head uncovered dishonors her head. How can a woman pray and prophesy silently? Edited by Annie
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Ezra 2:64 ¶ The whole congregation together was forty and two thousand three hundred and threescore,
65 Beside their servants and their maids, of whom there were seven thousand three hundred thirty and seven: and there were among them two hundred singing men and singing women.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

It does say learn in silence...seems to me that means when there is teaching/preaching being done.

If they are the only one singing for a special...where is the teaching?


What are we doing when we sing?? The easy answer would be worshiping God. But why would a woman need to sing out loud to worship God. He has said that he wants women to be silent. Also, Eph 5:19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord. God does not need to hear our voices, to hear and know our worship unto him. So why do we sing out loud? Well let's look at what a song is made up of. First, music. Nothing notable for our discussion there. Second words, or if it is a good song the words could be called a message. I have heard many a time someone say "that song had a wonderful message." Now I ask, who is to bring a message before the body in the church? Is not the one who gives a message in a church guiding what people think and hear? Would this not be leading??? Is leadership in the church not for the men??? If the special does not have a good message, it should not be sang in church. If it has a message, then it should be delivered by the men!! And even the songs sang by the congregation carry a message. Messages should be delivered by men unless only women and children are present.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

This would be a better passage to use in the argument then.

"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak: but they are commanded to be under OBedience, as also says the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" (1Co 14:34-37).


Yes, that is another very clear good verse. Silence, not permitted to speak. Very clear. So why do we allow women to sing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites




Yes, that is another very clear good verse. Silence, not permitted to speak. Very clear. So why do we allow women to sing.


I'm not really debating the topic but I'm finding the responses very interesting. I'm just curious though, does your church allow women to be part of singing and/or the choir? If they do is it something you have discussed with your pastor?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Who's Online   0 Members, 0 Anonymous, 33 Guests (See full list)

    • There are no registered users currently online
  • Recent Achievements

    • ITJesus earned a badge
      Dedicated
    • ITJesus earned a badge
      Week One Done
    • JenM earned a badge
      One Month Later
    • ITJesus earned a badge
      First Post
    • ITJesus earned a badge
      Conversation Starter
  • Tell a friend

    Love Online Baptist Community? Tell a friend!
  • Members

    No members to show

  • Recent Status Updates

    • Barbara Ann

      I am a researcher and writer at Watch Unto Prayer which I started 25 years ago. On this website there are many well-documented articles and audio programs by myself and other researchers whose ministry is to expose the endtime apostasy of the Church. Now more than ever Christians need information in order to identify and avoid the various deceptions that are in nearly all the churches.
      My husband and I attended the IFB Bible Baptist Church of James Knox a couple of years ago. We left the church after we were informed by the assistant pastor that we were not allowed to express views to other members that do not agree with the views of the pastor and leaders of the church. We were not introducing heresy but expressing our views concerning the State of Israel. We had never been in a church which forbade private conversations on issues where there are diverse opinions. This we recognized as cultlike control of church members. To inform Christians, my husband, who is also a researcher and writer, started a website on the subject: Zionism Exposed: A Watchman Ministry.
      · 0 replies
    • Free Spirit

      Jesus said:"I am the truth, the way, and the life. No man can come to The Father, but by Me."
      · 0 replies
    • Richg  »  BrotherTony

      Brother Tony, I read your reply on Anderson, I know you all think I'm argumentative but, when you don't agree.....the first thought I had is, I wish you would introduce me to the guy that hasn't sinned, maybe David, that had a man killed so he could commit adultery, yet, he was & is a man after Gods own heart, or maybe Paul the guy that persecuted and had Christians killed, or maybe Richg or Kent H, or even you ! I used to listen to personalities also when I was younger but today and for some time, my only concern is, does it line up with scripture & to me its hilarious that you think "I'm in a fix" LOL, I interpreted what we've discussed perfectly, not because I'm smart, but because with an open mind to things of God, its an easy read.
      · 1 reply
    • Richg  »  Jerry

      I thought you wanted me to stop talking to you !
      · 0 replies
    • Richg  »  PastorMatt

      Why is it here in 2022 that truth is all of a sudden arrogance ?
      · 0 replies
  • Topics

×
×
  • Create New...