From Fundamentalism to Ecumenism: A Warning From the Life of Robert Webber

[RSS Robot]

Enlarged OctOBer 14, 2010 (first published July 2, 2008) (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org; for instructions about subscribing and unsubscribing or changing addresses, see the information paragraph at the end of the article) -

The following is excerpted from “What is the Emerging Church.” 485 Pages. $19.95

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ROBert Webber (1933-2007) was a professor at Wheaton College for about 30 years and taught at Northern Seminary in Chicago the last seven years of his life.

He is one of the fathers of the contemplative movement and a very influential voice in the emerging church. In his book Common Roots (1978) he argued that the early church era of A.D. 100-500 has “insights which evangelicals need to recover.” Those “insights” include monastic “contemplative spirituality.”

Webber continued this line of thinking in Evangelicals on the Canterbury Trail: Why Evangelicals Are Attracted to the Liturgical Church (1985), Ancient-Future Faith: Rethinking Evangelicalism for a Postmodern World (1999), Younger Evangelicals: Facing the Challenges of the New World (2002), and The Divine Embrace: Recovering the Passionate Spiritual Life (2006).

Webber promoted a very broad ecumenism:

“Paradigm thinking sets us free to affirm the whole church in all its previous manifestations. ...This search for a common heritage allows for the emergence of a new understanding of unity and diversity. ... So while we are all Christians, some of us are Roman Catholic Christians, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Reformation Christians, twentieth-century Christians, or some other form of modern or postmodern Christians” (Ancient-Future Faith, pp. 16, 17).

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[John81]

There are so many prOBlems in churches today which are driving people to look elsewhere, to look for something different, to make their churches be about "more" than they are.

Part of the prOBlem is so many pastors who refuse to preach the whole Word of God. Churches are so watered down, so without power, so like the rest of the world, people realize they are getting little out of it and want more.

Rather than giving them the Word, they look for gimmicks, the latest "thing", even if that happens to be something from the past revamped.

Today we see churches turning into entertainment centers, trying to be Catholic-lite, embracing the latest ideas put forth by some author with a good book deal, becoming community centers, preaching the "all paths lead to God" falsehood, and assorted other unbiblcal things in order to try and keep or build membership.

Among the many reasons so many pastors are taking this route is because so many pastors today are not even born again. We have a plethora of lost pastors leading the lost in the same manner the blind leads the blind.

[Yankee Candle]

There are so many prOBlems in churches today which are driving people to look elsewhere, to look for something different, to make their churches be about "more" than they are.

Part of the prOBlem is so many pastors who refuse to preach the whole Word of God. Churches are so watered down, so without power, so like the rest of the world, people realize they are getting little out of it and want more.

Rather than giving them the Word, they look for gimmicks, the latest "thing", even if that happens to be something from the past revamped.

Today we see churches turning into entertainment centers, trying to be Catholic-lite, embracing the latest ideas put forth by some author with a good book deal, becoming community centers, preaching the "all paths lead to God" falsehood, and assorted other unbiblcal things in order to try and keep or build membership.

Among the many reasons so many pastors are taking this route is because so many pastors today are not even born again. We have a plethora of lost pastors leading the lost in the same manner the blind leads the blind.

I think, sadly, that John is prOBably right about that. I see so little spiritual/scriptural discernment in most pastors in our day that its hard for one to mentally conclude that many of them have ever truly experienced the new birth. So it is that much more important for us who know Jesus to stand for Him truly and faithfully so that we might have as much influence on the lives of those we touch as we possibly can. May the Holy Spirit fill each of us in that task.

[JerryNumbers]

I think, sadly, that John is prOBably right about that. I see so little spiritual/scriptural discernment in most pastors in our day that its hard for one to mentally conclude that many of them have ever truly experienced the new birth. So it is that much more important for us who know Jesus to stand for Him truly and faithfully so that we might have as much influence on the lives of those we touch as we possibly can. May the Holy Spirit fill each of us in that task.

Yes, but we must remember, no pastor is going to be perfect, that is impossible, while in the flesh, if one is not careful they will use that as an excuse not to attend church, plus, if we truly looked at ourself, we might find we have more prOBlems than the one we are examining.

[heartstrings]

Titus 1
6If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sOBer, just, holy, temperate; 9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

10For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

[JerryNumbers]

Plus, if it took a perfect man to be pastor, there would be no pastors, for there was only one perfect One,

[Saved IFB]

Among the many reasons so many pastors are taking this route is because so many pastors today are not even born again. We have a plethora of lost pastors leading the lost in the same manner the blind leads the blind.

You know, by reading this section have I thought about it. Some may be, some may be not. Good analysis.

[John81]

We should never expect a perfect pastor but we should expect a pastor that is born again in Christ, is sound on the fundamentals, and who preaches the whole Word of God.

[Covenanter]

This is one of the most important threads on any forum.

We have so many influences today that make discernment rare. "Christian" TV & radio has a plethera of preachers & music that appeals to the undiscerning, & our congregations get many times more teaching from the media than we can give. On many such programmes the theology appears sound but fails to declare [unto you] all the counsel of God. It can sound good, but it is what they do not preach that is so serious.

In the UK we have "Christians together" as a successor to "Churches together." Build fellowship at a grass roots level & the unity will grow, as Jesus prayed, Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one. A local Baptist church reports on its web site:

Perhaps the one incident that shows how much things changed in Church relationships occurred in 1998), when the Rt. Revd. Bishop Patrick O'Donoghue, Roman Catholic Bishop of West London, preached at our Church during the 'Week of Prayer for Christian Unity'. A comment that the Bishop made in his sermon underlined this point for us, "I would guess that I am the first Catholic Bishop who has preached in your Church".

Sadly, that is the church where a number of our members are now worshipping on the Lord's day. (Since we were displaced from the building we have been using by a Grace Baptist Church "plant" which had no place for the existing congregation.) We have not failed to warn them, but they have had a friendly welcome & so far have seen nothing to take warning from.

There are lots of churches in Southall, but they are all "Christians together" including the existing Baptist Church which joins in processions with the RCs. It has its worship group dominating what should be reverential worship.

I've said enough ... Edited October 20, 2010 by Covenanter

[Invicta]

In our town ours is the only church which is not in Churches Together (I thought they still called it that) apart from one of the Brethren which has only about 4 members breaking bread on a Sunday morning and two of those come to us on a Sunday evening and Wednesday. The other Brethren is fully involved with the ecumenists and now calls itself a "Christian Fellowship." There is a "Church of the Holy Spirit" (spiritualist) but I don't know if they are involved. There is also a WWCoG (Armstrongite) who meet on Saturday in a village about 5 miles out of town.

[Covenanter]

Standing firm on Christ & his Word can be lonely. There are so many worldly attractions brought into the churches that draw the religious interested folk to the church.

Only the Gospel draws people to Christ, but it seems new believers are deceived into remaining in such churches by friendship & enjoyable "worship."

If we compete, we lose our standing.

[JerryNumbers]

Standing firm on Christ & his Word can be lonely. There are so many worldly attractions brought into the churches that draw the religious interested folk to the church.

Only the Gospel draws people to Christ, but it seems new believers are deceived into remaining in such churches by friendship & enjoyable "worship."

If we compete, we lose our standing.

Yes, yet many are competing with them. It so easy to give up, throw in the towel, and use their ways.

There was a picture in our local paper of 3 prominent members of a local SBC Church with a group of people from the local Eagles Club giving money to a local charity. The Eagles Club is where they play bingo, have dances on Friday and Saturday nights drinking and so on,. Plus each afternoon from 10 to 30 people meet to drink until the bar shuts down.

[John81]

That's a good point you bring up Jerry. Many churches say they must do "community outreach" to help locals. However, rather than doing something themselves or joining hands with a like-minded church to help locals, they yoke themselves with worldly organizations, corrupt and even false churches.

Some say they can't have a big enough impact without yoking with the world, corrupt churches and false religionists. This totally denies the power of God to work through our OBedience to His Word. Why do they think God needs the help of those we are not to yoke with in order to have His will carried out?