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Who May Baptize?


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Yes, but...there is the prOBlem of some who baptize others putting forth wrong doctrine, wrong teaching, into the ears of those they baptize. They don't simply find out if they are biblically born again, understand what baptism is (and isn't), they go into teaching. If they are teaching unbiblically then it's possible the one being baptized has been misled and their baptism may not have actually been biblical.

Some teach all sorts of false doctrines before they baptize whether it be telling them baptism saves or is part of what saves them or that once baptized they must do good works to maintain their salvation, etc. If the one being baptized accepts these false teachings as part of their baptism then they are not partaking of a Scriptural baptism.


What do you believe/think about re-baptism? When my father first step foot into a IFB Church he was open to being apart of the fellowship. Because of his background (mostly what I already shared earlier in this thread) he was told he needed to be re-baptized. He didn't take that very well and left the fellowship. He didn't see a need to reboot his faith in such a manner.

My dad didn't teach my daughter anything when he baptized her. He just asked if she believed Jesus died for her sins and he baptized her in Jesus Name. Just as scripture illustrates. My wife and children believe they are eternally secure in their salvation (and not because of baptism). Since I am my fathers child I have held to the understanding you can give up the faith - but lately I think I could be wrong about that ..... Edited by God's Child
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What do you believe/think about re-baptism? When my father first step foot into a IFB Church he was open to being apart of the fellowship. Because of his background (mostly what I already shared earlier in this thread) he was told he needed to be re-baptized. He didn't take that very well and left the fellowship. He didn't see a need to reboot his faith in such a manner.

Again, I'm not involved with this situation, so my responses are based strictly on what you're telling me. Your father was asking to be a part of a church that doesn't agree with his background. IFB'ers don't see eye-to-eye with Free Will Baptists, and are diametrically opposed to Pentacostal teachings. Most IFB churches would argue that those types of "denominations" teach a different Christ than the One in the Bible. So, if your father claims salvation under those circumstances, there would be some questions from the IFB church regarding whether his salvation is true. That's what salvation hinges on - who you think Christ really is. If you believe in a "different" or "incorrect" Christ, then your salvation would be suspect.

Now, your father may be truly saved and has just gotten involved in denominations that are in error. That's between him and God. However, based on the "external proof" of what your father has been involved in, then the IFB church is questioning him and has that right. Baptism being a local church ordinance, the church (and the pastor as the shepherd of that church) will be held accountable to how they "did" church. Many churches are filled with professing Christians who will be surprised when left behind at the rapture. And it's each local church's responsibility to do everything possible to make sure all its members are true believers.

This may be a poor illustration, but the only one I can think of right now. A doctor completes medical school from the University of North Carolina and moves to Omaha, Nebraska, to start his practice (Why, I wouldn't know :icon_mrgreen:). He has to get a Nebraska medical license first, despite graduating from one of the best medical schools in the United States. Just across the Missouri River is Council Bluffs, Iowa, considered part of the Omaha metropolitan area. If that doctor wants to open an office in Council Bluffs, he has to apply for an Iowa medical license.

Imagine his medical school graduation as a believer's salvation. The believer (doctor) wants to join a church, then he must be scripturally baptized (licensed) to join that church. If the believer moves on to another church (state), that church ensures the believer is saved and properly baptized (licensed) to join.

If your father is truly saved and the "external proof" satisfies the IFB church, then then the issue becomes one of authority. Do denominations founded by men, such as Pentecostals, Mormons, and yes, even Protestants, have scriptural authority to baptize? The majority of IFB churches would say no. IFB churches believe they are the closest to the actual church begun by Christ Himself, and the authority to baptize was given to true churches. Religions and denominations founded by men have usurped that authority from Christ. I'm not talking about apostolic succession, like the Roman Catholics teach. But IFB doctrine has been handed down since Christ, and the churches that have maintained that doctrine throughout history have the scriptural authority to baptize.

Look at it this way: Imagine a wire underneath a rug. Both ends of the wire are exposed at opposite sides of the rug. If you wiggle one end of the wire and the other end wiggles too, then it's safe to assume its the same wire, even though you can't see the entire wire. It's the same with Scriptural authority. The only authority the local church I pastor has is the authority given it by our sending church, which received its authority from its sending church, which ... I hope you get the picture.

To make a short answer even longer, your church prOBably doesn't recognize the scriptural authority of the church that baptized your father. Therefore, in your church's opinion, your father has not been properly baptized. If he wants to join the IFB church, then scriptural baptism is required and I'm sure they'll be more than happy to conduct it.

So, if that church believes your father has not been scripturally baptized, then they also believe he doesn't have the scriptural authority to baptize anyone else. Thus, the church believes your daughter's baptism is unscriptural.

Mitch

P.S., Actually, I'm somewhat surprised your church accepted you as a member if you don't believe in eternal security. I am making an assumption that your church teaches eternal security, as most IFB churches do. New members are usually required to agree with everything in the church's doctrinal statement before joining.
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Surely our baptism should be based on our faith in Christ and not to which church we were baptised in?
You're exactly right that baptism is based on faith in Christ. That's why IFB churches are opposed to infant baptism, because an infant cannot come to faith in Christ. But, as I said in my response to God's Child, the issue of baptism also involves who has scriptural authority to baptize. Just because a building has the word "church" above its door doesn't mean it has scriptural authority to conduct baptisms.
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Again, I'm not involved with this situation, so my responses are based strictly on what you're telling me. Your father was asking to be a part of a church that doesn't agree with his background. IFB'ers don't see eye-to-eye with Free Will Baptists, and are diametrically opposed to Pentacostal teachings. Most IFB churches would argue that those types of "denominations" teach a different Christ than the One in the Bible. So, if your father claims salvation under those circumstances, there would be some questions from the IFB church regarding whether his salvation is true. That's what salvation hinges on - who you think Christ really is. If you believe in a "different" or "incorrect" Christ, then your salvation would be suspect.

Now, your father may be truly saved and has just gotten involved in denominations that are in error. That's between him and God. However, based on the "external proof" of what your father has been involved in, then the IFB church is questioning him and has that right. Baptism being a local church ordinance, the church (and the pastor as the shepherd of that church) will be held accountable to how they "did" church. Many churches are filled with professing Christians who will be surprised when left behind at the rapture. And it's each local church's responsibility to do everything possible to make sure all its members are true believers.

This may be a poor illustration, but the only one I can think of right now. A doctor completes medical school from the University of North Carolina and moves to Omaha, Nebraska, to start his practice (Why, I wouldn't know :icon_mrgreen:). He has to get a Nebraska medical license first, despite graduating from one of the best medical schools in the United States. Just across the Missouri River is Council Bluffs, Iowa, considered part of the Omaha metropolitan area. If that doctor wants to open an office in Council Bluffs, he has to apply for an Iowa medical license.

Imagine his medical school graduation as a believer's salvation. The believer (doctor) wants to join a church, then he must be scripturally baptized (licensed) to join that church. If the believer moves on to another church (state), that church ensures the believer is saved and properly baptized (licensed) to join.

If your father is truly saved and the "external proof" satisfies the IFB church, then then the issue becomes one of authority. Do denominations founded by men, such as Pentecostals, Mormons, and yes, even Protestants, have scriptural authority to baptize? The majority of IFB churches would say no. IFB churches believe they are the closest to the actual church begun by Christ Himself, and the authority to baptize was given to true churches. Religions and denominations founded by men have usurped that authority from Christ. I'm not talking about apostolic succession, like the Roman Catholics teach. But IFB doctrine has been handed down since Christ, and the churches that have maintained that doctrine throughout history have the scriptural authority to baptize.

Look at it this way: Imagine a wire underneath a rug. Both ends of the wire are exposed at opposite sides of the rug. If you wiggle one end of the wire and the other end wiggles too, then it's safe to assume its the same wire, even though you can't see the entire wire. It's the same with Scriptural authority. The only authority the local church I pastor has is the authority given it by our sending church, which received its authority from its sending church, which ... I hope you get the picture.

To make a short answer even longer, your church prOBably doesn't recognize the scriptural authority of the church that baptized your father. Therefore, in your church's opinion, your father has not been properly baptized. If he wants to join the IFB church, then scriptural baptism is required and I'm sure they'll be more than happy to conduct it.

So, if that church believes your father has not been scripturally baptized, then they also believe he doesn't have the scriptural authority to baptize anyone else. Thus, the church believes your daughter's baptism is unscriptural.

Mitch

P.S., Actually, I'm somewhat surprised your church accepted you as a member if you don't believe in eternal security. I am making an assumption that your church teaches eternal security, as most IFB churches do. New members are usually required to agree with everything in the church's doctrinal statement before joining.


You have given me much to think about. When we started visiting our current IFB Church we were encouraged to become members. We were asked if we ever were baptized. At the time I just said yes, but since then I have shared with my pastor I was baptized by a non-IFB pastor (the pastor of my childhood church). We never were asked to believe the Church's doctrinal statement and right now I'm not certain the Church has one (now that you mention it).

It seems IFB Churches/pastors believe differently. Some (like the IFB Church my dad went to) view Pentecostal Holiness churches and Freewill Baptist as completely useless and unscriptural, while others see them as okay but doctrinally off in some minor details. I can remember Oliver B Greene stating he had no prOBlem fellowshipping with all sorts of denominations as long as they believed in salvation by faith, no works. I was taught that "another Jesus" would be one that asked you to come to the cross another way besides faith (works). A Biblical example would be those who said law+faith was needed for salvation.

My personal testimony is simple. When I was in the first grade I started crying in class, the teacher asked what was wrong and it became clear I wanted to accept Jesus as my savior. She took me to another man and he went over salvation and I asked Jesus into my heart. All my life since then I have depended on God for salvation because the Bible said all I needed was to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. I was baptized a few months after my first grade confession.

My mom and dad didn't teach me doctrinal truths much and after I got married my wife and I joined a IFB Church. Things didn't go well so we ended up in a Calvinistic Church. We left after learning more about election, attended Church of the Open Door in Westminster (55min ride) for awhile, and then we found an IFB Church closer to our house (we are still attending this church). All this time I have tried to understand and believe set doctrine, but it has been hard. After so many Churches (and audio preaching) I am confused. I am amazed at how sometimes a visiting preacher contradicts my own pastor.

I am open to understand the Bible alone, but I need guidance. I read words and don't know their true meaning. I seek help from men who are preachers and teachers only to see they contradict (leaving me to choose). I am told at my Church to just serve God more, don't ask questions but believe things by faith, and my one talent (singing with guitar) was smashed at our current Church when I was showed it was unholy. I have sold my old guitars (except one I keep to sing songs with the kids at home) and removed all CCM, bluegrass, gospel music from my house so that we can honer God and not have the world. We don't watch TV except a good movie here and there. But, my current pastor believe guitars don't have a place in the Church. We homeschool. We know that God wants us to be holy and not conformed to this world and we are working on that for fellowship with Him. We pray and read the Bible. We do it all for God and to have fellowship with Him.

Still. Understanding doctrines and explaining them to others is hard.

I am sick of Churches playing games with people. Some people really want to grow, and most of our Church friends are so worldly we have a hard time getting along. Everything at Church is service oriented. Join choir, tithe, help with building projects, clean church .... but nOBody really works to study together and understand the Bible. I have learned after two years at this current Church that the people are all on a different page. It's amazing what they believe.

It's not about us, but Christ!!!!!!!!!!

I believe I just have an understanding inside, but just not verbal. Almost like I can't express truth. Many times I say something (like the post about repentance)and it comes out wrong, but inside I know God saved me by his grace. Almost like i don't know the magic words to describe what is inside me.

I have found my songs written did good at describing Biblical truth, but sadly that is demonic. Maybe. I guess so since my pastor showed me that yoking with the world is a sin.

Forgive the scattered nature of this message. Edited by God's Child
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It seems IFB Churches/pastors believe differently.

Please understand that I'm not being "snarky" when I say this, but that's what IFB churches are about. There is no hierarchy of men ruling over individual churches. That being said, it can also lead to myriad different practices and beliefs. That's why we're encouraged to be Bereans and verify the preaching with God's word.

Mitch
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You have given me much to think about. When we started visiting our current IFB Church we were encouraged to become members. We were asked if we ever were baptized. At the time I just said yes, but since then I have shared with my pastor I was baptized by a non-IFB pastor (the pastor of my childhood church). We never were asked to believe the Church's doctrinal statement and right now I'm not certain the Church has one (now that you mention it).

It seems IFB Churches/pastors believe differently. Some (like the IFB Church my dad went to) view Pentecostal Holiness churches and Freewill Baptist as completely useless and unscriptural, while others see them as okay but doctrinally off in some minor details. I can remember Oliver B Greene stating he had no prOBlem fellowshipping with all sorts of denominations as long as they believed in salvation by faith, no works. I was taught that "another Jesus" would be one that asked you to come to the cross another way besides faith (works). A Biblical example would be those who said law+faith was needed for salvation.

My personal testimony is simple. When I was in the first grade I started crying in class, the teacher asked what was wrong and it became clear I wanted to accept Jesus as my savior. She took me to another man and he went over salvation and I asked Jesus into my heart. All my life since then I have depended on God for salvation because the Bible said all I needed was to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. I was baptized a few months after my first grade confession.

My mom and dad didn't teach me doctrinal truths much and after I got married my wife and I joined a IFB Church. Things didn't go well so we ended up in a Calvinistic Church. We left after learning more about election, attended Church of the Open Door in Westminster (55min ride) for awhile, and then we found an IFB Church closer to our house (we are still attending this church). All this time I have tried to understand and believe set doctrine, but it has been hard. After so many Churches (and audio preaching) I am confused. I am amazed at how sometimes a visiting preacher contradicts my own pastor.

I am open to understand the Bible alone, but I need guidance. I read words and don't know their true meaning. I seek help from men who are preachers and teachers only to see they contradict (leaving me to choose). I am told at my Church to just serve God more, don't ask questions but believe things by faith, and my one talent (singing with guitar) was smashed at our current Church when I was showed it was unholy. I have sold my old guitars (except one I keep to sing songs with the kids at home) and removed all CCM, bluegrass, gospel music from my house so that we can honer God and not have the world. We don't watch TV except a good movie here and there. But, my current pastor believe guitars don't have a place in the Church. We homeschool. We know that God wants us to be holy and not conformed to this world and we are working on that for fellowship with Him. We pray and read the Bible. We do it all for God and to have fellowship with Him.

Still. Understanding doctrines and explaining them to others is hard.

I am sick of Churches playing games with people. Some people really want to grow, and most of our Church friends are so worldly we have a hard time getting along. Everything at Church is service oriented. Join choir, tithe, help with building projects, clean church .... but nOBody really works to study together and understand the Bible. I have learned after two years at this current Church that the people are all on a different page. It's amazing what they believe.

It's not about us, but Christ!!!!!!!!!!

I believe I just have an understanding inside, but just not verbal. Almost like I can't express truth. Many times I say something (like the post about repentance)and it comes out wrong, but inside I know God saved me by his grace. Almost like i don't know the magic words to describe what is inside me.

I have found my songs written did good at describing Biblical truth, but sadly that is demonic. Maybe. I guess so since my pastor showed me that yoking with the world is a sin.

Forgive the scattered nature of this message.


Are you saying your wrote some biblical songs but now think they are somehow demonic?

Only know what you have told it's hard to state anything certain, but if your current church is as you say the I'd be considering looking for a different church home.

Keep in mind, no church is perfect, but a church should have a clear doctrinal statement and the leadership, and hopefully the membership, should be living accordingly.

We must be very careful in who we listen to with regards to preaching and such. If not, it can be very easy to become confused. I had that prOBlem back when I was first saved in 1981. Also, nothing can replace daily Bible reading and prayer.
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