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Big night for tea party: O'Donnell wins Delaware


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You are correct about the Bush administration in some respects. Actually, there were many laws passed in states that severely limited a woman's right to choose. Regardless, it's next to impossible if not impossible to change the Roe decision now by legislation. States have the right to pass laws regarding abortion because it is murder. Putting it down as a "woman's right to choose" is just the lingo that has convinced a few generations that it is a good thing. No woman has the right to choose to murder her child, no matter how it's inconveniencing her. And that does fall under the purview of the states. NOT the federal government, re: Roe v. Wade or congressional legislation.

It's interesting that you mention legislation regarding homosexuality and shrinking the government back to the bounds of the Constitution right next to each other. Federal legislation regarding homosexuality or defining marriage would be waaay outside the bounds of the Constitution. It's really funny how far right conservatives love the Constitution until it disagrees with their pet cause. Far right conservatives? My goodness - I thought moderates love the Constitution as well...as to your comment about homosexuality: I totally agree with you. It is way beyond the bounds of the Constitution and the federal government has no business in it. However: states do. And that is why the federal judge who has tried to shanghai the referendum in CA was way out of line. It's Congress' responsibility to rein him in, but they won't because they like power - and allowing each branch of federal government to do what they want assures the other branches they can, too. Checks and balances don't work when you have 3 federal branches checking each other...unless the states get involved. Very involved.
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Oh yes, I love the Constitution and I certainly hope other moderates do too! I was just remarking that it's interesting how some claim to love the Constitution until it interferes with something they think should be done (ie a federal marriage amendment). I prOBably wasn't clear and it was def unfair for me to only call out the far right for this. It happens to many regardless of political persuasion. We all know the far left is equally guilty... :rolleyes:
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Well I'm not sure what moderates you are looking at. There are very, very few true moderates in Congress. Even so, they are members of the Democratic or Republican party and cop to the leadership under pressure.

Again I'll ask you if you have anything to back up your position. And "moderates hold to liberal positions no Christian would hold to"? Really? Hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of true Christians that are not conservative politically and plenty that are even (gasp!) Democrats. A book you might want to check out (but I know you won't) is "Jesus rode a Donkey". It's about how the right doesn't have a monopoly on Christianity.

You are correct about the Bush administration in some respects. Actually, there were many laws passed in states that severely limited a woman's right to choose. Regardless, it's next to impossible if not impossible to change the Roe decision now by legislation.

It's interesting that you mention legislation regarding homosexuality and shrinking the government back to the bounds of the Constitution right next to each other. Federal legislation regarding homosexuality or defining marriage would be waaay outside the bounds of the Constitution. It's really funny how far right conservatives love the Constitution until it disagrees with their pet cause.


These are a few typical moderate positions that are actually liberal and also unbiblical:

support the murder of unborn babies (abortion)
support homosexual "marriage" or "civil union" (a stepping stone to "marriage")
support for a vast array of unconstitutional government agencies and programs

According to Scripture true followers of Christ will abide in His Word, they will be known and seen for OBeying the Word of God in all aspects of their lives. The Dem Party platform is unbiblical and their overall policies and goals are unbiblical. Any Christian truly following Christ would be unable to support them and unwilling to be one.

The Word of God gives clear direction as to where a Christian should stand, even with regard to politics.
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These are a few typical moderate positions that are actually liberal and also unbiblical:

support the murder of unborn babies (abortion)
support homosexual "marriage" or "civil union" (a stepping stone to "marriage")
support for a vast array of unconstitutional government agencies and programs

According to Scripture true followers of Christ will abide in His Word, they will be known and seen for OBeying the Word of God in all aspects of their lives. The Dem Party platform is unbiblical and their overall policies and goals are unbiblical. Any Christian truly following Christ would be unable to support them and unwilling to be one.

The Word of God gives clear direction as to where a Christian should stand, even with regard to politics.


Some moderates are more socially conservative than others, so this blanket statement doesn't apply to all moderates. Many moderates view a lot of these things as issues that the federal government should leave alone, regardless of whether or not they privately condone or support these things in their personal lives. I would say that a lot of moderates don't believe in forcing their moral world view on others, no matter what it is. This cannot be said for either the far right or the far left.
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Some moderates are more socially conservative than others, so this blanket statement doesn't apply to all moderates. Many moderates view a lot of these things as issues that the federal government should leave alone, regardless of whether or not they privately condone or support these things in their personal lives. I would say that a lot of moderates don't believe in forcing their moral world view on others, no matter what it is. This cannot be said for either the far right or the far left.


Nice dodge :thumb:

The fact is the government doesn't operate according to original intent. In fact, very far from it. Unless such is ever changed those in office must operate under the system as is in order to accomplish anything, or they can use such as an excuse to appear to make no stand...which they are making a stand by taking that position.

If these "many moderates" truly view many things as something the Feds shouldn't be involved in why aren't they working to get the Feds out of these areas? What moderates are working to end unconstitutional agencies or programs; or to get the Feds out of the abortion or homosexual "marriage" issue?
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Yes, but tea party candidates are generally far right leaving me still with where are moderates supposed to go with the tea party hijacking the GOP?

Far right? Conservatives "hijacking" the Republican Party?

No, we have not seen far right. We have not seen a Christian conservative.

All we see are fakes and liberals.
In Christ,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.
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Far right? Conservatives "hijacking" the Republican Party?

No, we have not seen far right. We have not seen a Christian conservative.

All we see are fakes and liberals.
In Christ,
Joel ><>.
2 Chronicles 7:14.


There might not be a Christian conservative as you would define it. I'm not sure what your definition is, but there are conservatives that use Christian rhetoric and ideas. Whether or not they are Christians, I can't say unless I know them personally.

Far right though we have seen. And we have seen the national party pandering to its right wing base. I've said it before, but McCain picking Palin for his running mate and revising some of his stances in the 2008 election was a clear example of pandering to the right wing of the GOP.

Would you care to back up your statement with examples?
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Nice dodge :thumb:

The fact is the government doesn't operate according to original intent. In fact, very far from it. Unless such is ever changed those in office must operate under the system as is in order to accomplish anything, or they can use such as an excuse to appear to make no stand...which they are making a stand by taking that position.

If these "many moderates" truly view many things as something the Feds shouldn't be involved in why aren't they working to get the Feds out of these areas? What moderates are working to end unconstitutional agencies or programs; or to get the Feds out of the abortion or homosexual "marriage" issue?


I'm not dodging anything and you know it. Anyone who reads my posts knows that I don't shy from saying what I believe, even if it results in ridicule. All I'm doing is calling out your blanket statements and your assumptions that are not based in fact.
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There might not be a Christian conservative as you would define it. I'm not sure what your definition is, but there are conservatives that use Christian rhetoric and ideas. Whether or not they are Christians, I can't say unless I know them personally.

Far right though we have seen. And we have seen the national party pandering to its right wing base. I've said it before, but McCain picking Palin for his running mate and revising some of his stances in the 2008 election was a clear example of pandering to the right wing of the GOP.

Would you care to back up your statement with examples?


Could you please do the same?

Who are the far right politicians running the Repub Party?

What does Christian rhetoric prove? OBama and Bill Clinton both use(d) such and they are in no way far right or conservative.

McCain was such a liberal he had to do something in an attempt to get non-liberal Repubs to bother to come out and vote for him. Palin, if you check her completely, isn't anywhere near as conservative as the media and Dem Party have painted her.
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I'm not dodging anything and you know it. Anyone who reads my posts knows that I don't shy from saying what I believe, even if it results in ridicule. All I'm doing is calling out your blanket statements and your assumptions that are not based in fact.


You have refused to give examples in several cases when asked in several posts in various threads.

What are your moderate positions you believe the Repub Party should stand upon?
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Could you please do the same?

Who are the far right politicians running the Repub Party?

What does Christian rhetoric prove? OBama and Bill Clinton both use(d) such and they are in no way far right or conservative.

McCain was such a liberal he had to do something in an attempt to get non-liberal Repubs to bother to come out and vote for him. Palin, if you check her completely, isn't anywhere near as conservative as the media and Dem Party have painted her.






You have refused to give examples in several cases when asked in several posts in various threads.

What are your moderate positions you believe the Repub Party should stand upon?


I have backed up my statement with examples but I will keep going if you would like. Far right conservatives? Jim DeMint, Joe Wilson, Huckabee (that's a national one you would prOBably know), yes Sarah Palin. She doesn't have a very long record to stand on, but the ideas she is presenting are very far right. And the new tea party candidate that just won? Christine O'Donnell? She is very right as well. The tea party is putting up very right wing candidates. One of them just beat out BOB Inglis of SC (another very conservative Republican) in the primary for the House race.

I'm going to take a leap here and guess that you don't agree with the mainstream interpretation of what constitutes far right and moderate so we are prOBably speaking different languages here.

Could you please tell me where I have refused to give appropriate examples when asked? I don't recall where that has happened.

For your last question, I believe in moderate fiscal conservatism but moderate social liberty. I would like to see the party having the backbone to stand on those issues and to support the candidates like the John McCain of 2000, not the John McCain that would have become a puppet for the tea party.
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I have backed up my statement with examples but I will keep going if you would like. Far right conservatives? Jim DeMint, Joe Wilson, Huckabee (that's a national one you would prOBably know), yes Sarah Palin. She doesn't have a very long record to stand on, but the ideas she is presenting are very far right. And the new tea party candidate that just won? Christine O'Donnell? She is very right as well. The tea party is putting up very right wing candidates. One of them just beat out BOB Inglis of SC (another very conservative Republican) in the primary for the House race.

I'm going to take a leap here and guess that you don't agree with the mainstream interpretation of what constitutes far right and moderate so we are prOBably speaking different languages here.

Could you please tell me where I have refused to give appropriate examples when asked? I don't recall where that has happened.

For your last question, I believe in moderate fiscal conservatism but moderate social liberty. I would like to see the party having the backbone to stand on those issues and to support the candidates like the John McCain of 2000, not the John McCain that would have become a puppet for the tea party.


I love a good laugh but it's mighty early in the morning for such.

Huckabee a far right conservative? Not even close. He's also not in leadership within the Repub Party and didn't even have that good of a showing in the 2008 elections.

John McCain was a liberal in 2000 and a liberal in 2008. The only thing he did in 2008 was change some of his wording to try and trick conservative Repubs into backing him. Had he been elected he would have governed according to his liberal leanings.

The tea party isn't the Repub Party and whenever the tea party promotes anyone near conservative the Repub Party fights against them.

What does this mean that you believe in "moderate fiscal conservatism but moderate social liberty"? This statement is so vague and without clear defintion it's virtually meaningless. What positions do you hold that place your beliefs into these categories you selected?
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I love a good laugh but it's mighty early in the morning for such.

Huckabee a far right conservative? Not even close. He's also not in leadership within the Repub Party and didn't even have that good of a showing in the 2008 elections.

John McCain was a liberal in 2000 and a liberal in 2008. The only thing he did in 2008 was change some of his wording to try and trick conservative Repubs into backing him. Had he been elected he would have governed according to his liberal leanings.

The tea party isn't the Repub Party and whenever the tea party promotes anyone near conservative the Repub Party fights against them.

What does this mean that you believe in "moderate fiscal conservatism but moderate social liberty"? This statement is so vague and without clear defintion it's virtually meaningless. What positions do you hold that place your beliefs into these categories you selected?


Well, the tea party isn't exactly a 3rd party either. Most of it's candidates run under the GOP ticket so it's more of a faction of the Republican party. Some in the Republican Party fight against these people, but, in my opinion, they are fighting more against the new faces than the philosophies they espouse. It's all about jOB security...

I figured we would disagree about what constitutes a far right conservative. Being in the party leadership makes no difference. Most mainstream thought would place everyone I mentioned squarely in the far right wing of the party. I'm sure you don't agree with mainstream thought and that's fine but that doesn't make it invalid.

Who do you think is far right? What do you think constitutes far right? I think defining that would prOBably help us.

Yes I'm aware the philosophy that I quoted it vague. Most are and have only meaning to those who hold the philosophy. I guess I would say on the fiscal side that I'm not for oppressive taxes or for a nanny state that takes care of people without having to work. However I am for some degree of a safety net to help society's most vulnerable (ie unemployment benefits for a certain amount of time, healthcare for poor children, etc). I think my tax dollars should support that. However, there needs to be reform b/c my tax dollars should not support people who live extravagantly but rely on the system to take care of them. This hurts those who really need help. Additionally, I believe that the government (at any level) has no business in the private lives of individuals. Yes, things like life and property rights should be protected so morals like murder and stealing should be legislated. However, personal sexual preferences among consenting adults are no one's business.

I'm sure many disagree and that's fine, to be honest I don't want my political beliefs to become the subject of debate on this thread, I was merely defining them because I was asked.
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Interestingly, on AFR today there was someone on there confronting "moderates". He pointed out there is no such thing. That whether a Dem or Repub calling themselves moderates, what it really means is they are liberals who generally support homosexual "marriage", abortion and such.

When it comes down to it Christians are to base their views and positions upon the Word of God and nothing else. Scripture tells us one of the functions of government is to thwart evil and Scripture gives examples of that which the government should stand against.

As well, Scripture is clear as to the position Christians should hold on the issues at hand. God created marriage and the family. God's Word tells us all we need to know.

The question is, are we going to follow Christ or someone else?

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