Members anime4christ Posted August 27, 2010 Members Share Posted August 27, 2010 This is a great article that describes what I believe is the Biblical view of verses which talk about God's sovereign election and verses that talk about His will to save all people. Both are true, in my opinion. The reason I am posting this is because people here keep pulling a handful of verses on me and telling me that proves their opinion. This is my answer to those OBjections. It is a long read, but it is my final say on this matter. If anyone wants to discuss any of those verses further, I don't want to until you have read this article. http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/Articles/ByDate/1995/1580_Are_There_Two_Wills_in_God/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invicta Posted August 29, 2010 Members Share Posted August 29, 2010 That is what I have been trying to say, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted August 29, 2010 Members Share Posted August 29, 2010 I've not managed to read the entire article yet. Is this similar to what Spurgeon put forth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anime4christ Posted August 30, 2010 Author Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 I've not managed to read the entire article yet. Is this similar to what Spurgeon put forth? I'm not sure. I haven't seen Spurgeon explicitly state it in what I have read by him yet, but from what I have read, it aligns well with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted August 30, 2010 Members Share Posted August 30, 2010 I'm not sure. I haven't seen Spurgeon explicitly state it in what I have read by him yet, but from what I have read, it aligns well with this. Okay, thanks. I'm taking the article in small chunks. It's hard for me to read long articles online. No way could I read books on computer screens like some folks do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 31, 2010 Members Share Posted August 31, 2010 This is my answer to those OBjections. It is a long read, but it is my final say on this matter. Somehow, I have a feeling you will be saying more on the matter though your post says you will not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anime4christ Posted August 31, 2010 Author Members Share Posted August 31, 2010 (edited) Somehow, I have a feeling you will be saying more on the matter though your post says you will not. Read the next sentence. The matter stated in the sentence you quoted is very specific. It is how to reconcile the verses that talk about God's will to save all with those that say He sovereignly chooses. Now, if anyone wants to discuss beyond this matter, I am fine with that. I just don't want to discuss the "but John 3:16 says whosoever!" and "this verse says ALL" matter anymore. Edited August 31, 2010 by anime4christ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted August 31, 2010 Members Share Posted August 31, 2010 I skimmed through the article and when I came to this, I had read enough...We must certainly distinguish between what God would like to see happen and what he actually does will to happen, and both of these things can be spoken of as God's will. I smell a wolf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anime4christ Posted August 31, 2010 Author Members Share Posted August 31, 2010 I skimmed through the article and when I came to this, I had read enough... I smell a wolf. OK, tell me, was it God's will for Judas to perish if Judas is part of the "all"? Did not God say though that it would happen? Was not it God's will for the betrayal of Jesus to happen? Did it not please God to crush His son? How can you not see more than one will in here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted August 31, 2010 Members Share Posted August 31, 2010 I skimmed through the article and when I came to this, I had read enough... I smell a wolf. I'm not sure what that means, but I'm glad you at least took a skim. I would really appreciate it if you could take the time and read the article and comment on what you agree and/or disagree with and your biblical reasons for such. Either I didn't read that far yet or I managed to pass over it. I suppose I'll have to do more reading and read slower since it's hard for me to read long sections online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted September 1, 2010 Members Share Posted September 1, 2010 OK, tell me, was it God's will for Judas to perish if Judas is part of the "all"? Did not God say though that it would happen? Was not it God's will for the betrayal of Jesus to happen? Did it not please God to crush His son? How can you not see more than one will in here? Say that I wanted Anime4Christ to be eaten by a lion. So I put you in a place that I know there are lions. It's my will for you to be eaten by a lion, correct? Would I know WHICH lion was going to kill you? No. The only difference is that God would know which lion was going to get you. That's it, brotherman. Just becasue God knows everything, doesn't mean He makes it happen. Judas betrayed Jesus because that was what he wanted to do. But Jesus is God, my friend, and he knew Judas and what he would do. It was still judas' choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members anime4christ Posted September 2, 2010 Author Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 Say that I wanted Anime4Christ to be eaten by a lion. So I put you in a place that I know there are lions. It's my will for you to be eaten by a lion, correct? Would I know WHICH lion was going to kill you? No. The only difference is that God would know which lion was going to get you. That's it, brotherman. Just becasue God knows everything, doesn't mean He makes it happen. Judas betrayed Jesus because that was what he wanted to do. But Jesus is God, my friend, and he knew Judas and what he would do. It was still judas' choice. I almost agree, though that view doesn't add up IMHO. That's besides the point though. The point I was making was that it was God's will to have His Son murdered, and yet murder is against God's will. So, are there not two wills here? It doesn't matter whether you are Calvinist or not, it is OBvious that God has two wills here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members heartstrings Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 I almost agree, though that view doesn't add up IMHO. That's besides the point though. The point I was making was that it was God's will to have His Son murdered, and yet murder is against God's will. So, are there not two wills here? It doesn't matter whether you are Calvinist or not, it is OBvious that God has two wills here. John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trc123 Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. This commandment have I received of my Father. And yet the Lord Jesus does say he received "this commandment" from his Father. This is the grandeur and mystery of God. He operates on so many different levels and dimensions that while he is in perfect harmony with himself and never lies and never contradicts himself; we can't fully understand how to reconcile everything that might seem to us to be in conflict or contradictory, but God's got it all handled. Somethings are not for us to fully understand; but rather to accept by faith and believe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bzmomo7 Posted September 2, 2010 Members Share Posted September 2, 2010 John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. Yes, Christ was given the power to choose by the commandment of God the Father. I like your lion comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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