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Will A Man Rob God?


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Remember, the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John record events still under the Old Testament. From the time the New Testament came into effect and throughout the "church age" (book of Acts onward), it's clear that Christian giving is to come willingly from our hearts surrendered to Christ, not out of any compulsion.

In fact, we should be ashamed of ourselves if we base our giving off of some predetermined set standard that was given to OT Jews rather than allowing Christ to be Lord in our lives and leading us to give according what He says at any given time.

As is typically the case, those who give in accord with NT Christian giving, give far more abundantely than others.


That would depend on how you interpret "NT Christian giving." Give the way you see fit according to your interpretation. I'll give what I believe God has called me to give according to my interpretation of scripture. For me that is tithe, missions, and sacrificial as I am able. I know this, I can not out give God.

Also, my New Testament begins with Matthew chapter 1. Edited by 1Tim115
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Yes, the NT begins with the Gospels, but the OT was still in effect during most of them and the tithe only applied to certain Jews, not everyone. Once the Old Testament was completed and the New Testament took effect, we were not longer Jews and Gentiles and Christians were not bound to the laws specifically given to the Jews and to those laws specifically given for the maintenance of the temple system.

Other than simply wanting to cling to OT law, greed or lack of trust in God, there is no reason whatsoever at all for any preacher to preach Christians are to tithe and no reason for any Christian to believe the burden of the tithe is upon them. God's means for supporting preachers, evangelisits, missionaries, the poor, orphans and widows is clearly presented to Christians from the beginning of Christianity (which primarily begins being recorded in Acts and onward). Christians are to give their whole selves to God through Christ. We are not, like the Jews, called upon to keep a set of outward laws that serve as a sign of our difference from others, we are called to live for and serve God through our lives totally submitted unto Him. Every Christian who truly follows God, submitting to the lordship of Christ in their lives, will be led by the Spirit to give in perfect accordance with the will of God.

One smug Christian who had a good paying job during the Great Depression bragged about giving his tithe while most others didn't. J. Vernon McGee pointed out to the man what Scripture says about Christians and giving and pointed out that to those who much is given, much is expected. The well off man shouldn't be looking to see how little those without jobs, those who were just barely making it, were giving, but rather to surrender his heart to the Lord and he would likely realize that during this dry season the Lord would probably lead him to give much more than he was.

As Paul pointed out, we give abundantly when the Lord enables us and calls us to and if ever we are in need the same will be done toward us.

Trust God, don't resort to the law that has already been fulfilled. As Scripture says, if we resort to the law then we are bound to the whole law and if we fail in one point we have failed in all. God requires of us the surrender of our hearts, our lives to Him, and from such a position we will know how much, when and where to give in accord with His will. No amount of "tithing" without that surrender and close walk with Him is of real worth.

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As much as some want to paint a picture in this thread, the paint just won't stick to the canvass; the canvass remains clear and white, not by its own effort but by him who made it white.

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As much as some want to paint a picture in this thread, the paint just won't stick to the canvass; the canvass remains clear and white, not by its own effort but by him who made it white.

Exactly, God made His Word clear and Christians are commanded to a far higher standard than were certain Jews under the temple system.
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I said it in the other thread, I'll say it also in here.

Not all Israelites were required to tithe, only farmers and herders. And the Levites were instructed to receive tithes from certain persons only, not from all who lived in the land of Israel.

So, tell me, which Christians are to tithe and which are not? And why do the Apostles not mention a monetary tithe in any of their epistles if the tithe of money was so needful?

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Remember, the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John record events still under the Old Testament. From the time the New Testament came into effect and throughout the "church age" (book of Acts onward), it's clear that Christian giving is to come willingly from our hearts surrendered to Christ, not out of any compulsion.

In fact, we should be ashamed of ourselves if we base our giving off of some predetermined set standard that was given to OT Jews rather than allowing Christ to be Lord in our lives and leading us to give according what He says at any given time.

As is typically the case, those who give in accord with NT Christian giving, give far more abundantely than others.


John, I cannot agree with your statement that the gospels were in the OT, because: .
Lu 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
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I honestly don't take a dogmatic stand on the tithe, other than the fact that Christians are called to sacrifice. It's a common theme in the New Testament. In my experience the people that try to justify not tithing are the folks that generally don't want to sacrifice much for the Lord in any area of their lives. I'm not saying that is anyone here, but that's what I've run into with folks.

If I were a pastor, and the Lord led me to preach on giving, I would focus on what the New Testament clearly states about the subject:

1. We are to give.
2. We are to give cheerfully.
3. We are to give sacrificially.

If people want to get all hairlipped about the 10% thing than whatever, but God calls us all to give, and if no one gives then a lot of things don't get done. If you believe in the work of God you'll give to the work of God.

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John, I cannot agree with your statement that the gospels were in the OT, because: .
Lu 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


Hebrews says that a testament is not in force until the death of the testator. So while the law and the prophets were until John, the New Testament wasn't in full effect until Calvary. In other words, the Gospels are a transition period, which is why people will break their necks in the Gospels doctrinally if they ignore the Pauline epistles.

Hey look! We're talking about dispensations in the tithing thread and talking about tithing in the dispensations thread! This is great! Edited by Rick Schworer
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I honestly don't take a dogmatic stand on the tithe, other than the fact that Christians are called to sacrifice. It's a common theme in the New Testament. In my experience the people that try to justify not tithing are the folks that generally don't want to sacrifice much for the Lord in any area of their lives. I'm not saying that is anyone here, but that's what I've run into with folks.

If I were a pastor, and the Lord led me to preach on giving, I would focus on what the New Testament clearly states about the subject:

1. We are to give.
2. We are to give cheerfully.
3. We are to give sacrificially.

If people want to get all hairlipped about the 10% thing than whatever, but God calls us all to give, and if no one gives then a lot of things don't get done. If you believe in the work of God you'll give to the work of God.
God does call all to give, yes. But He does not call all to give 10%. So I am not getting "hairlipped" about the 10%.

It is amazing how some will go on the defensive when confronted with what the Word of God actually says.
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Ha, okay. Everytime anyone even casually mentions giving around here you always get up in arms about this subject.

My opinion is that if someone is so naive about the 10% issue and they by chance spend their whole lives making the grevious mistake of giving 10% sacrifically and joyfully, as well as offererings to missionaries, then it's not going to be that big of a deal.

Lions and tithers and bears, oh my!

Edited by Rick Schworer
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John, I cannot agree with your statement that the gospels were in the OT, because: .
Lu 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

During the time Jesus walked on earth the OT system was still in force. The kingdom of God began being preached but the New Testament wasn't put in place during most of that time. The Gospels were a time of transition.
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Ha, okay. Everytime anyone even casually mentions giving around here you always get up in arms about this subject.

My opinion is that if someone is so naive about the 10% issue and they by chance spend their whole lives making the grevious mistake of giving 10% sacrifically and joyfully, as well as offererings to missionaries, then it's not going to be that big of a deal.

Lions and tithers and bears, oh my!

Actually, it would be hoped that if a Christian lives very long they would study this and other matters out and then abide by the Word of God.

Scripture puts a pretty big emphasis upon obedience, not just doing things our way or following some tradition. Scripture also makes it clear that if we love the Lord we will keep His commands, which would include how Christians are instructed to give.

In all probability, most of us will find we gave far less than we were supposed to, especially those of us in America who tend to have far higher standards of living than we need and waste a great amount of "extra" money, and toss out enough food to feed many hungry folks, and buy well above what we actually need.

There are exceedingly few Christians in America truly giving sacrificially.
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I wouldn't say that. Many American Christians are holding the line at home for missionaries in spite of the fact that their incomes have been dramatically gouged by the recession. Sometimes I think that we're too quick to throw Americans under the bus.

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Ha, okay. Everytime anyone even casually mentions giving around here you always get up in arms about this subject.

My opinion is that if someone is so naive about the 10% issue and they by chance spend their whole lives making the grevious mistake of giving 10% sacrifically and joyfully, as well as offererings to missionaries, then it's not going to be that big of a deal.

Lions and tithers and bears, oh my!
I have no issue with someone giving 10% to their local Church if God laid it on their hearts to give that amount.

But the fact remains, the majority that give 10% to their Church do so, not because God told them to, but rather because they have been falsely taught that 10% of their money is to be tithed back to God. And those who give for that reason have been deceived into giving that amount and are giving under compulsion... because they believe that is required by God. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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I wouldn't say that. Many American Christians are holding the line at home for missionaries in spite of the fact that their incomes have been dramatically gouged by the recession. Sometimes I think that we're too quick to throw Americans under the bus.

No doubt many missionaries get much support from America, but out of all the professing Christians in America, it's a tiny few who are actually sacrificing to give abundantly to their local church, support missionaries, assist the poor, widows and orphans.

For most Americans, they consider it a sacrifice if they have to wait a few days to buy something because they gave "a little extra" this week, or that after putting their cash in the collection plate they will now have to use their credit card to fill up their new SUV.

There is nothing wrong with having some stuff, but for most American Christians, even those of us less well off, we have way more than we need, waste more in a year than some families even see as a total for their year, overindulge, etc.

How many of us given even slightly close to the way the widow Jesus commended? How many of us give even anywhere near like the Christians we read of in Acts and some of the epistles? Many, perhaps most of these, gave not only beyond their comfort level, but to the point they had to live rather spartan for at least a time.

Few of us are selling our extra property so we can give the money, or giving up our nice, newer vehicles for something efficient and les costly so we can give more, or are not eating out this year so we can give that much more, etc.
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Few of us are selling our extra property so we can give the money, or giving up our nice, newer vehicles for something efficient and les costly so we can give more, or are not eating out this year so we can give that much more, etc.


I actually know people in my church that have done everything you've listed in this sentence. I agree that America is not what is used to be, but it is by far the most generous nation in the world. I'd love to see a ratio of how many American missionaries there are to everyone else.
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I actually know people in my church that have done everything you've listed in this sentence. I agree that America is not what is used to be, but it is by far the most generous nation in the world. I'd love to see a ratio of how many American missionaries there are to everyone else.

Considering most of the rest of the world gives little or nothing, saying America gives most isn't say a lot.

We have to also remember how many bogus missionaries America sends abroad too.

If America Christians were giving as they (we) should, then most of the missionaries wouldn't have to keep coming back and going from church to church to beg for donations. Consider how much time and money is wasted because most American Christians demand a show and emotional appeal before they will give?
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I wonder why missionaries have to go on deputation? going from Church to Church for support before going on the mission field?

Jesus told the Apostles not to take scrip, nor purse. Our missionaries should have the same mindset, in my opinion.

When one goes with this mindset, one knows one must practice faith, relying on God rather than man to supply his need. If all missionaries went out with this type of attitude, there would be far fewer "bogus missionaries"

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