Will A Man Rob God?

[Steve Schwenke]

So Melchizedek was a Baalite priest, eh?

Psalms 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

So Jesus Christ follows in the line of a Baalite priest? How does that work?

Heb 7:1 ¶ For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Paul says that Levi paid tithes to a PRIEST - not a Baalite priest.
"Consider how great this pagan Baalite priest was...."
King of Righteousness??? how so if he is a Baalite?
King of Peace??? "There is no peace, saith the Lord, unto the wicked."

HHHHHMMMMM

Nope, not buying your theory there. Melchizedek (whoever he was) was most certainly NOT a Baalite priest. It is as the text says - the "priest of the most high God." I cannot imagine Abraham - a faithful servant of God - giving 10 cents to a Baalite priest.

[Guest]

What better methods?

How about Biblical methods? If they say they are called of God to go to the mission fields, send them with neither scrip, nor money for their purse.

If God lays it on a Church's mind to send a special offering toward the missions (not the missionary's living expenses) then the Church should do such.

That is how Paul instructed the Church at Corinth, is it not?

And I am not so sure that the support for money should be sent. Paul came to the Church of Corinth himself to acquire the support funds for those in his mission field.

Let the missionaries come to the Church to pick up the support funds.

I can believe he had to come to the church at Corinth and that shouldn't surprise anyone. But this...
Philippians 4:16 For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.
...was the method commended by Paul.

I pause to wonder about smorgasbord theology.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Where in Philippians did Paul say that he asked them to send him money? From what I see, he didn't. They sent because they saw a need.

Paul nowhere implies that it was ok from missionaries to beg for funds, but rather he encourages the Church's to minister to needs they see.

There is not one single instance of "deputation" in the Word of God. As John81 pointed out, it is a modern concept.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

So Melchizedek was a Baalite priest, eh?

Psalms 110:4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

So Jesus Christ follows in the line of a Baalite priest? How does that work?

Heb 7:1 ¶ For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Heb 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
Heb 7:5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Paul says that Levi paid tithes to a PRIEST - not a Baalite priest.
"Consider how great this pagan Baalite priest was...."
King of Righteousness??? how so if he is a Baalite?
King of Peace??? "There is no peace, saith the Lord, unto the wicked."

HHHHHMMMMM

Nope, not buying your theory there. Melchizedek (whoever he was) was most certainly NOT a Baalite priest. It is as the text says - the "priest of the most high God." I cannot imagine Abraham - a faithful servant of God - giving 10 cents to a Baalite priest.

And why did you not continue in the passage?

Oh, that's right... if you did, you would shoot yourself in the foot.

Hebrews 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

The tithe is done away with. There is no more a Levitical tribe to receive it. And they were the only ones qualified or authorized by God to receive the tithe.

Levi paid tithes because he lived under the Law, by the way. And the tithes of the Levites were the only tithes that made it to the Tabernacle. Israelites from the other tribes did not bring their tithes to the Tabernacle, they took them to cities or kept them on their own property on certain years.

Further proof, by the way, that it was the Levites that were robbing God in Malachi 3, and not the congregation of Israel. Edited March 8, 2012 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Wilchbla]

I know the word tithe mean "a tenth" but didn't the Israelites actually give around 28% of their increase and this did this only once a year. If this is true and some of us are still intent on following the OT in these matters shouldn't we go all the way with it and follow the same model?

Edited March 8, 2012 by Wilchbla

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Tithe does indeed mean "a tenth"

And you are correct, what the farmers and herders of Israel gave was far more than a tenth. Funny how those who insist that tithing is for today don't even follow the Biblical tithe.

Many don't even realize that neither Jesus, nor His disciples were required to tithe under the Mosaic Law.

[Steve Schwenke]

And why did you not continue in the passage?

Oh, that's right... if you did, you would shoot yourself in the foot.

Hebrews 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

The tithe is done away with. There is no more a Levitical tribe to receive it. And they were the only ones qualified or authorized by God to receive the tithe.

Levi paid tithes because he lived under the Law, by the way. And the tithes of the Levites were the only tithes that made it to the Tabernacle. Israelites from the other tribes did not bring their tithes to the Tabernacle, they took them to cities or kept them on their own property on certain years.

Further proof, by the way, that it was the Levites that were robbing God in Malachi 3, and not the congregation of Israel.

Evasion....Dodging....
You claim that Melchizedek was a pagan Baalite priest....the Scriptures state otherwise.
Abraham is our example. Levi paid a tithe by proxy through Abraham before the Law to the Lord's priest.
The EXAMPLE is there. Abraham is not under the Law - neither are we. If Abraham gave a tithe UNDER GRACE, and if he gave it to the Lord's priest, and if that Priesthood is carried on by Jesus Christ (as Heb. 7 and Ps. 110 confirm!) then it seems to me that it is applicable to us today.

In Christ,

[Calvary]

If I were to read the whole Bible would I ever conclude that giving a 5th was something the Lord enjoined? Would I be able to conclude that the Lord would be pleased with the 8th or 6th or 3rd part of my goods?
I find it incredulous that men try to opine that the Lord does not ask us to tithe when there is no other number EVER affixiated to our offerings.
Why would you not tithe? Is there something other than the least "purposed" in your heart?
1 Corinthians 16 also says as the Lord has prospered. So after you pay your bills, feed your familiy, take in some recreation (oh yeah brethren, it's in there!), then put some away for tomorrow, what's left over is prospered by the Lord. Probably much much more than a mere tithe.

God bless,
calvary

[Guest]

Where in Philippians did Paul say that he asked them to send him money? From what I see, he didn't. They sent because they saw a need.

Paul nowhere implies that it was ok from missionaries to beg for funds, but rather he encourages the Church's to minister to needs they see.

There is not one single instance of "deputation" in the Word of God. As John81 pointed out, it is a modern concept.

Deputation is a definition for a missionary going throughout the church and securing the "necessity" for the work of his ministering. Trinity, etc., etc.

Why do American and foreign missionaries have to go from local church to local church begging? Because folks make a doctrine out of not providing for their necessity. How does God provide for the local church and missions through the Holy Spirit moving hearts of men in love for provision. Were you ever or are you now a missionary and did you ever take a missionary trip before?

The local church at Antioch sent (Acts 13) Barnabus and Paul (Saul) on Paul's first missionary trip. Paul encourages and commends churches who provide for his needs. It isn't because of the individual's own heart but rather the Holy Ghost speaks to them and lays the need on the hearts of members of the local churches. It is out of love that a sack of corn, a chicken, money, and any other provisions for the missionary were given.

No Holy Spirit, no love, no provision.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Evasion....Dodging....
You claim that Melchizedek was a pagan Baalite priest....the Scriptures state otherwise.
Abraham is our example. Levi paid a tithe by proxy through Abraham before the Law to the Lord's priest.
The EXAMPLE is there. Abraham is not under the Law - neither are we. If Abraham gave a tithe UNDER GRACE, and if he gave it to the Lord's priest, and if that Priesthood is carried on by Jesus Christ (as Heb. 7 and Ps. 110 confirm!) then it seems to me that it is applicable to us today.

In Christ,

I am not evading at all.
The location of Melchizedek's reign show it was in the land of Canaan, which at that time was a pagan land inhabited by a cursed people. Melchizedek was a king over pagan people residing in a pagan land. There is no getting around that fact.

You also keep dodging the fact that Abram did not take that tithe to a Tabernacle, nor did he take it to a Church.

And that tithe that was given to Melchizedek was not personal property, it was not money that Abram/Levi had worked for. It was the spoils of war. You keep evading that fact.

As I said, if I am ever in a war, I will gladly imitate Abram and give 10% to a king of a pagan land. Edited March 8, 2012 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Standing Firm In Christ]

If I were to read the whole Bible would I ever conclude that giving a 5th was something the Lord enjoined? Would I be able to conclude that the Lord would be pleased with the 8th or 6th or 3rd part of my goods?
I find it incredulous that men try to opine that the Lord does not ask us to tithe when there is no other number EVER affixiated to our offerings.
Why would you not tithe? Is there something other than the least "purposed" in your heart?
1 Corinthians 16 also says as the Lord has prospered. So after you pay your bills, feed your familiy, take in some recreation (oh yeah brethren, it's in there!), then put some away for tomorrow, what's left over is prospered by the Lord. Probably much much more than a mere tithe.

God bless,
calvary

Why would I not tithe? Because there is no such doctrine for the Church found in the New Testament. Paul certainly did not teach it. The other Apostles did not teach it. And the Lord Jesus Christ did not teach it either.

Paul did say give as the Lord prospered you, yes. But he did not say tithe. He did not say 10% is the amount one is to give. No, he said we are to give as we purpose in our hearts to give.

We have no order to give a tenth of our finances to any earthly priest-king such as did to Melchizedek. We have no mention whatsoever that the tithe is to be taken to a Church in the Word of God.

This modern-day monetary tithe doctrine is nothing more than a doctrine of man and not of God.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Deputation is a definition for a missionary going throughout the church and securing the "necessity" for the work of his ministering. Trinity, etc., etc.

Why do American and foreign missionaries have to go from local church to local church begging? Because folks make a doctrine out of not providing for their necessity. How does God provide for the local church and missions through the Holy Spirit moving hearts of men in love for provision. Were you ever or are you now a missionary and did you ever take a missionary trip before?

The local church at Antioch sent (Acts 13) Barnabus and Paul (Saul) on Paul's first missionary trip. Paul encourages and commends churches who provide for his needs. It isn't because of the individual's own heart but rather the Holy Ghost speaks to them and lays the need on the hearts of members of the local churches. It is out of love that a sack of corn, a chicken, money, and any other provisions for the missionary were given.

No Holy Spirit, no love, no provision.

Deputation is an unbiblical practice. Jesus sent the Disciples out telling them to take no scrip, nor money for their purse. The Apostle Paul did not go from Church to Church drumming up money for missionary support before entering into his missionary journeys.

No, as a matter of fact, he Paul indicates that he worked to sustain himself and his company. (Acts 18:3, 20:34, 28:30; 1 Corinthians 9:15; 1 Thessalonians 2:9; and 2 Thessalonians 3:8)

[Invicta]

Deputation is an unbiblical practice. Jesus sent the Disciples out telling them to take no scrip, nor money for their purse. The Apostle Paul did not go from Church to Church drumming up money for missionary support before entering into his missionary journeys.

No, as a matter of fact, he Paul indicates that he worked to sustain himself and his company. (Acts 18:3, 20:34, 28:30; 1 Corinthians 9:15; 1 Thessalonians 2:9; and 2 Thessalonians 3:8)

We have a friend who is a missionary pastor in the Philippines. He is not allowed to earn any money in that country.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

That is interesting, since Bob Tebow Evangelistic Association has missionaries in the Philippines who do work.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

From manilla.usembassy.gov:

Non-Resident Aliens Who Intend to Work in the Philippines

(DOLE) to secure an Alien Employment Permit (AEP).

All foreign nationals seeking admission to the Philippines for the purpose of employment, all non-resident foreign nationals already working in the Philippines, and all non-resident foreign nationals admitted to the Philippines on on-working visas, who wish to work in the Philippines, regardless of the source of compensation and duration of employment are required by the Philippine

Department of Labor and Employment

(BLE). Missionaries or religious workers who intend to engage in gainful employment are not exempted from securing an AEP.

NOTE: In support of the UN Spouse Employment Policy, the Philippine government has also exempted the spouses of members of international organizations from securing an AEP. Spouses however, are required to file an application for a Certificate of Exemption from the DOLE's

Bureau of Local Employment

If your missionary friend says he is not allowed to work, something is not adding up. It is evident that missionaries are indeed allowed to have gainful employment in the Philippines.