Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Will A Man Rob God?


Recommended Posts

  • Members

Its true Abram tithed before the law and so did Adam and Eve and their Children. God had placed it in their hearts. This though does not give us a rule to tithe but neither does the O.T. nor what was written in the gospels. the gospels are written under the O.T. economy. Jesus never tells anyone to stop going to the temple, stop sacrificing, stop paying their tithes and so forth, in fact He Himself goes to the temple and preaches. 2Tim 2 :15 we are told to "study...rightly divide the Word of truth." the key words rightly divide.
People keep taking God's Word and throwing it all together and we have to stop doing that.
Have you ever gone to lay your hands on them prayed for healing and they died. You asked God why because you did what He said for you to do in the Gospels yet He did not answer like He said He would. This happened to me when I was a very young man and when I asked my Pastor his answer was , well that happens some times. Well thats not an answer.The problem is not with God, of course. The problem is with us. We are wrongly dividing the Word of truth. We are taking it out of context. Just like tithing making people feel if they don't tithe God is going to get them, wow what kind of God would that be, like He has time to sit up there and Wait for tommy not to tithe so He can make his car break down. But I am sure we have all been told these things, I have anyways.

But when I got to study the Bible for myself I found out that hey Paul is the Apostle to the gentiles, not Peter,John, James, read Acts 15 compare to Gal.2, just read it word for word and what does it say. Who is the apostle to the gentiles? That is who we get our doctrine from his books, the church gets their doctrine from Paul.Look at all letters of all the other Peter, James and John they all heavily Jewish, lean more toward the works side. None of them talk about the Body of Christ, none of them talk just like Paul, Peter gets close in a place only showsPaul' letters, plus he praises Puals letters as scriptures, in second Peter 3:15,16. Paul says the writings of Old are for our learning, now I know he was referring to the O.T. which I feel includes the gospels, but the books we don't get our doctrine from would fall into this category also.

I know a lot of people say we live in the age of grace and then throw the O.T. out at us for money, I think its a sin.
Adam and Eve tithed? Really? Where can I find that in Scripture? Please post the references that state they tithed. Also give me the references that state that Cain, Abel and Seth tithed. I'd be interested in reading them.

And what is your point? This thread is about tithing, not about who was an Apostle to which people. Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Adam and Eve tithed? Really? Where can I find that in Scripture? Please post the references that state they tithed. Also give me the references that state that Cain, Abel and Seth tithed. I'd be interested in reading them.

And what is your point? This thread is about tithing, not about who was an Apostle to which people.

I took his post to mean that Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles, never told the Gentiles God expected a tithe from them. That is something Gentiles would need to be told if such were the case. Rather we are told in the epistles to give cheerfully from our heart. The examples of Christian giving in the New Testament indicates none of them even considered the tithe at all; not as some "base" to begin with or minimum to strive for. Instead we see these early Christians giving abundantly out of a heart truly set to honour Christ. From what we read it seems clear most, if not all, were giving greatly more than 10%.

Nowhere does Paul, or any of the other Apostles, declare a tithe is required, or rebuke anyone for not tithing, or even hint that a tithe is required. We are told that offerings were made and they were to be made without compulsion (a required tithe is a compulsion).

Christians are to walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh. If we are walking in the Spirit we will know what the Lord would have us to give and we will give it cheerfully without even a thought as to how much of a percentage it amounts to.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

It is possible that that is what he meant. I will not dismiss that thought.

However, it would be interesting if he would return and tell us if that were what he was trying to convey.

I would also like to see the passages that say Adam, Eve, and their children tithed.

Agreed. I have no idea where the idea Adam, Eve and their children tithed is coming from.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
  • Members

We can see in the book of Acts the only matters from the law which Christians were commanded to keep, and tithing is not commanded.

When we look at the examples in the book of Acts, and elsewhere in the NT, and as we see Paul teaching, there is no command to tithe or to view a tithe as a minimum, or any thought whatsover regarding the tithe. Rather Christians are to walk with the Lord and give according to how the Lord leads. In every example in the NT of Christian giving, we see such giving is done in abundance, often to the point of those giving making real sacrifices to give so much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tithe

Strong’s H4643
מעשׂרה מעשׂר מעשׂר
ma‛ăώêr ma‛ăώar ma‛aώrâh
{mah-as-ayr'} {mah-as-ar'} mah-as-raw'
From H6240 ; a tenth ; especially a tithe: - tenth ({part}) tithe (-ing).
O.T. references to the establishment of tithing.

Genesis 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Genesis 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Nehemiah 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

N.T. Christ’s references – tithing is not condemned by Christ, “not to leave the other undone.”

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Luke 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

N.T. Apostle’s references – tithing or giving and providing to God and His preachers.

Romans 12:8b “he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity;”
Romans 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

1 Corinthians 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

1 Corinthians 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a few hurried thoughts.

I believe the tenth is for the storehouse and the house of God. I believe this is established in Malachi 3:8-10 (particularly 8 and 10).

Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Also substantiated by Genesis 28:22 and all of the scripture of Leviticus, Numbers, etc.

Genesis 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.


I don’t believe they were really concerned with missionaries and the spread of Judaism to the rest of the world in the O.T. So provision for the saints spreading the Gospel of Christ seems to be an added responsibility to the Christian. Jesus sent them out by twos and told them not to be concerned with money or even additional clothing.

Luke 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
Luke 9:3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
Luke 9:4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.

I personally believe the precedent is that Christians would provide for this added need above and beyond the tithe. He was, after all, sending them to Jews who already knew tithing was a requirement. So, any provision given would have been from a change of heart and most likely after receiving Christ.

Probably, the best example of providing for the missionary comes from Philippians 4:9-19.

Philippians 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
Philippians 4:16 For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.

Sacrificial giving…

Philippians 4:18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.

Paul exhorts the Corinthians in his 2nd epistle to them.

2 Corinthians 8:All

It all belongs to God, this is true, and 10% is so little to ask. Paul told the Corinthians it wasn’t a commandment. If you have to give specifically to the needs of the missionary then let it be counted as such.

2 Corinthians 8:8 I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.

2 Corinthians 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.

I have a husband and wife missionary family to be sent out from us, who I routinely sit behind. They participate in “Faith Promise.”
Just a few hurried thoughts.

An addendum to the above...


Tithing to our Lord

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mark 12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
Luke 21:2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.

Luke 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Hebrews 7
Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Hebrews 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.


Hebrews 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Hebrews 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

The preponderance of evidence and the priesthood of Christ being carried over from the O.T. into the N.T. has made me conclude the tithe, missions giving, and sacrificial giving were carried over too. No there is no convincing me otherwise.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Tithe

Strong’s H4643
מעשׂרה מעשׂר מעשׂר
ma‛ăώêr ma‛ăώar ma‛aώrâh
{mah-as-ayr'} {mah-as-ar'} mah-as-raw'
From H6240 ; a tenth ; especially a tithe: - tenth ({part}) tithe (-ing).
O.T. references to the establishment of tithing.

Genesis 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

Genesis 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.

Nehemiah 10:38 And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house.

Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

N.T. Christ’s references – tithing is not condemned by Christ, “not to leave the other undone.”

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Luke 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

N.T. Apostle’s references – tithing or giving and providing to God and His preachers.

Romans 12:8b “he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity;”
Romans 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.

1 Corinthians 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

1 Corinthians 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, (ye know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

2 Corinthians 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just a few hurried thoughts.

I believe the tenth is for the storehouse and the house of God. I believe this is established in Malachi 3:8-10 (particularly 8 and 10).

Malachi 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Malachi 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Also substantiated by Genesis 28:22 and all of the scripture of Leviticus, Numbers, etc.

Genesis 28:22 And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.


I don’t believe they were really concerned with missionaries and the spread of Judaism to the rest of the world in the O.T. So provision for the saints spreading the Gospel of Christ seems to be an added responsibility to the Christian. Jesus sent them out by twos and told them not to be concerned with money or even additional clothing.

Luke 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.
Luke 9:3 And he said unto them, Take nothing for your journey, neither staves, nor scrip, neither bread, neither money; neither have two coats apiece.
Luke 9:4 And whatsoever house ye enter into, there abide, and thence depart.

I personally believe the precedent is that Christians would provide for this added need above and beyond the tithe. He was, after all, sending them to Jews who already knew tithing was a requirement. So, any provision given would have been from a change of heart and most likely after receiving Christ.

Probably, the best example of providing for the missionary comes from Philippians 4:9-19.

Philippians 4:15 Now ye Philippians know also, that in the beginning of the gospel, when I departed from Macedonia, no church communicated with me as concerning giving and receiving, but ye only.
Philippians 4:16 For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity.

Sacrificial giving…

Philippians 4:18 But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God.

Paul exhorts the Corinthians in his 2nd epistle to them.

2 Corinthians 8:All

It all belongs to God, this is true, and 10% is so little to ask. Paul told the Corinthians it wasn’t a commandment. If you have to give specifically to the needs of the missionary then let it be counted as such.

2 Corinthians 8:8 I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.

2 Corinthians 8:11 Now therefore perform the doing of it; that as there was a readiness to will, so there may be a performance also out of that which ye have.

I have a husband and wife missionary family to be sent out from us, who I routinely sit behind. They participate in “Faith Promise.”
Just a few hurried thoughts.

An addendum to the above...


Tithing to our Lord

Matthew 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Mark 12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
Luke 21:2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.

Luke 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Hebrews 7
Hebrews 7:1 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Hebrews 7:2 To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.


Hebrews 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Hebrews 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Hebrews 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

The preponderance of evidence and the priesthood of Christ being carried over from the O.T. into the N.T. has made me conclude the tithe, missions giving, and sacrificial giving were carried over too. No there is no convincing me otherwise.

Remember, the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John record events still under the Old Testament. From the time the New Testament came into effect and throughout the "church age" (book of Acts onward), it's clear that Christian giving is to come willingly from our hearts surrendered to Christ, not out of any compulsion.

In fact, we should be ashamed of ourselves if we base our giving off of some predetermined set standard that was given to OT Jews rather than allowing Christ to be Lord in our lives and leading us to give according what He says at any given time.

As is typically the case, those who give in accord with NT Christian giving, give far more abundantely than others.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've seen a lot of argument about tithe, I'll stay with the tithe...yes it is money today. They didn't grow greenbacks in ancient Israel and I don't grow an abundance of anise now. I don't go fight wars to grab plunder and according to the law of this nation, any plunder I would have received on the high seas went to the governments coffers. So, again I'm left with money not crops, and not plunder (spoils of war). I don't believe common people had other than their crops and herds to offer to God in the O.T. Sure there were people with money but the common denominator was crops and critters. God being equitable wouldn't ask gold and silver from a man with a corn field and a cow. In light of new testament scripture he may have required the man to breed his cow (talents) and give a calf. Also, (bad grammar again) We don't already have anything, it all starts from God, its all his. The foolishness of preaching (great commission) is provided for by giving and today a sack of taters doesn't get the mileage it did in ancient Israel.

I read through this thread and wouldn't have if not mentioned by Steve in another thread. I understand some folks don't have 10% to give or even 1% so don't give. God knows your heart and I'm sure you give in other ways to build and maintain the church, the pastor, and missionaries. Missionaries have told me they covet prayer. Witnessing (foolishness of preaching) builds the church so, bring souls to Christ. I'm not going to yoke someone struggling to make ends meet to equal what I believe God has told me in his word that I should give.

Link to comment
Share on other sites



Remember, the books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John record events still under the Old Testament. From the time the New Testament came into effect and throughout the "church age" (book of Acts onward), it's clear that Christian giving is to come willingly from our hearts surrendered to Christ, not out of any compulsion.

In fact, we should be ashamed of ourselves if we base our giving off of some predetermined set standard that was given to OT Jews rather than allowing Christ to be Lord in our lives and leading us to give according what He says at any given time.

As is typically the case, those who give in accord with NT Christian giving, give far more abundantely than others.


That would depend on how you interpret "NT Christian giving." Give the way you see fit according to your interpretation. I'll give what I believe God has called me to give according to my interpretation of scripture. For me that is tithe, missions, and sacrificial as I am able. I know this, I can not out give God.

Also, my New Testament begins with Matthew chapter 1. Edited by 1Tim115
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Yes, the NT begins with the Gospels, but the OT was still in effect during most of them and the tithe only applied to certain Jews, not everyone. Once the Old Testament was completed and the New Testament took effect, we were not longer Jews and Gentiles and Christians were not bound to the laws specifically given to the Jews and to those laws specifically given for the maintenance of the temple system.

Other than simply wanting to cling to OT law, greed or lack of trust in God, there is no reason whatsoever at all for any preacher to preach Christians are to tithe and no reason for any Christian to believe the burden of the tithe is upon them. God's means for supporting preachers, evangelisits, missionaries, the poor, orphans and widows is clearly presented to Christians from the beginning of Christianity (which primarily begins being recorded in Acts and onward). Christians are to give their whole selves to God through Christ. We are not, like the Jews, called upon to keep a set of outward laws that serve as a sign of our difference from others, we are called to live for and serve God through our lives totally submitted unto Him. Every Christian who truly follows God, submitting to the lordship of Christ in their lives, will be led by the Spirit to give in perfect accordance with the will of God.

One smug Christian who had a good paying job during the Great Depression bragged about giving his tithe while most others didn't. J. Vernon McGee pointed out to the man what Scripture says about Christians and giving and pointed out that to those who much is given, much is expected. The well off man shouldn't be looking to see how little those without jobs, those who were just barely making it, were giving, but rather to surrender his heart to the Lord and he would likely realize that during this dry season the Lord would probably lead him to give much more than he was.

As Paul pointed out, we give abundantly when the Lord enables us and calls us to and if ever we are in need the same will be done toward us.

Trust God, don't resort to the law that has already been fulfilled. As Scripture says, if we resort to the law then we are bound to the whole law and if we fail in one point we have failed in all. God requires of us the surrender of our hearts, our lives to Him, and from such a position we will know how much, when and where to give in accord with His will. No amount of "tithing" without that surrender and close walk with Him is of real worth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As much as some want to paint a picture in this thread, the paint just won't stick to the canvass; the canvass remains clear and white, not by its own effort but by him who made it white.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

As much as some want to paint a picture in this thread, the paint just won't stick to the canvass; the canvass remains clear and white, not by its own effort but by him who made it white.

Exactly, God made His Word clear and Christians are commanded to a far higher standard than were certain Jews under the temple system.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...