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Will A Man Rob God?


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I feel your pain and understand your situation. May I suggest (this isn't meant to be sarcastic or flippant) that if things are that tight that you drop your internet service and buy some groceries (that is if you are using a paid service)?
Since all my family are on the east coast and on the west coast, and I in the middle, my telephone is my only means of keeping in touch with them. That said, it was cheaper for me to get a bundle package than to go with telephone alone.

My internet is not the problem at all. Though I have little groceries in the house at the end of every month, God sees me through.

And my internet is used as my ministry. My health problems prevent me from going out knocking on doors. The heat, for one thing is too much. I have asthma and COPD, and the heat and pollens in the air take my breath whenever I have to venture out.

I also have blood pressure problems that cause my BP to drop if I stand too long. Even sitting, it stays dangerously low most of the time. Normal for me is 93/53 or thereabouts.

Then there is the blindness due to retinal deterioration and retinitis pigmentosa.

I am unable to get out like most people, so the internet is my doorway to the world. I have been able to use this as a tool for reaching many souls with the truth as it is written in the Word of God.
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Since all my family are on the east coast and on the west coast, and I in the middle, my telephone is my only means of keeping in touch with them. That said, it was cheaper for me to get a bundle package than to go with telephone alone.

My internet is not the problem at all. Though I have little groceries in the house at the end of every month, God sees me through.

And my internet is used as my ministry. My health problems prevent me from going out knocking on doors. The heat, for one thing is too much. I have asthma and COPD, and the heat and pollens in the air take my breath whenever I have to venture out.

I also have blood pressure problems that cause my BP to drop if I stand too long. Even sitting, it stays dangerously low most of the time. Normal for me is 93/53 or thereabouts.

Then there is the blindness due to retinal deterioration and retinitis pigmentosa.

I am unable to get out like most people, so the internet is my doorway to the world. I have been able to use this as a tool for reaching many souls with the truth as it is written in the Word of God.


Understood. May God continue to meet your needs and bless you richly.
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Well I take offense that you have said pastors are oppressive (and by your definition, so is God!).

So I guess we're equally offended then! haha.

Cool deal.



As an outside observer, this made me laugh.

I hope you guys can work this out and that there won't be any hard feelings. I'm like the dinosaur on Toy Story, "I don't like confrontation!"

:th_laugh1:
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As an outside observer, this made me laugh.

I hope you guys can work this out and that there won't be any hard feelings. I'm like the dinosaur on Toy Story, "I don't like confrontation!"

:th_laugh1:

As I said, my stance is Biblical. I find no Biblical justification for her to say I am hoarding my income.

And her saying that I am accusing God of oppressing is wrong too. I agree with God. He never commanded, nor did He even suggest that anyone give 10% of their money to Church.

To teach that people are to tithe 10% of their money is adding to the Word of God... oppressing His people.

Acts 15:10 (KJV) Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Peter was not just speaking of circumcision here, but of the entire Mosaic Law. And he said the Gentile Believers were not to be put under that yoke of bondage.

God's tithe was meant for a specific people... those living in Israel and no one else. There is no amendment to that command to include people living in other nations.

To say we are to tithe, is to add to God's Holy Word.

Teach people to give gracefully and cheerfully. God will be more pleased with such a message than one that brings people under bondage.
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Personal issues can be defined as matters about which the Lord has not revealed his preferences; thus each Christian is at liberty to follow the dictates of their own conscience. In those situations, the Lord's wishes, as stipulated in the 14th chapter of Romans, are to be followed; five of which are:

†. Rom 14:3 . . Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

†. Rom 14:4 . .Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth.

†. Rom 14:5 . . Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

†. Rom 14:14 . . to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

†. Rom 14:22 . . Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Do you trust Baptist pastors? Look in the yellow pages for a Baptist church in your area and make an appointment with a pastor to have him explain the principles regulating personal issues in the 14th chapter of Romans. It doesn't have to be the senior pastor; an associate pastor will do.

C.L.I.F.F.
/


What matters are there that God's word doesn't address either directly through command or by principles He outlines for our lives?
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Well I take offense that you have said pastors are oppressive (and by your definition, so is God!).

So I guess we're equally offended then! haha.

Cool deal.


Since God does not demand a tithe of Christians, God can't be said to be oppressing Christians in this manner.

Christians are to give according to what God puts in their hearts to give, whether that would amount to 1% or 100% of any particular check or income, and trust God to provide for our needs regardless of the amount we have afterwards.
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What matters are there that God's word doesn't address either directly through command or by principles He outlines for our lives?


So you're saying:

1) the 14th chapter of Romans doesn't matter.

2) Christ's pastors don't matter.

Well, you're certainly mistaken on both counts. For one, the 14th of Romans was written by Paul the apostle as a duly authorized agent of the Bible's Christ.

†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

And second, Christ's pastors are a divine gratuity with a divine purpose.

†. Eph 4:11-14 . . And he gave some apostles. . . and some pastors; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

It appears to me that you feel competent enough on your own to get by without Christ's pastors, and apparently without Paul too.

C.L.I.F.F.
/ Edited by Webers_Home
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So you're saying:

1) the 14th chapter of Romans doesn't matter.

2) Christ's pastors don't matter.

Well, you're certainly mistaken on both counts. For one, the 14th of Romans was written by Paul the apostle as a duly authorized agent of the Bible's Christ.

†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

And second, Christ's pastors are a divine gratuity with a divine purpose.

†. Eph 4:11-14 . . And he gave some apostles. . . and some pastors; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

It appears to me that you feel competent enough on your own to get by without Christ's pastors, and apparently without Paul too.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
Neither 1 Corinthians 14, nor Ephesians 4 have anything to do with the false teaching of tithes in the Church.
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So you're saying:

1) the 14th chapter of Romans doesn't matter.

2) Christ's pastors don't matter.

Well, you're certainly mistaken on both counts. For one, the 14th of Romans was written by Paul the apostle as a duly authorized agent of the Bible's Christ.

†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

And second, Christ's pastors are a divine gratuity with a divine purpose.

†. Eph 4:11-14 . . And he gave some apostles. . . and some pastors; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive

It appears to me that you feel competent enough on your own to get by without Christ's pastors, and apparently without Paul too.

C.L.I.F.F.
/


Your post fails to answer the question at hand. What matters are there that God's word doesn't address either directly through command or by principles He outlines for our lives?
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I have not tried to give 10% because God has not told me to give 10%.

Maybe it is nothing for you to give 10%, but for me, it is an impossibility. And it is wrong of you, or anyone else to accuse me of not having faith because I do not give 10%.

As a matter of fact, it is arrogance to say the least to tell me I must try to give that much.


Now, this makes more sense to me. God has not told you to give 10% is a good enough reason for me. I have no issues with that.

And, aren't we all lacking in faith? I didn't say you didn't have faith, but you surely don't have faith enough to give 10%. Just like I might not have enough faith to give 50% or whatever number we are dealing with.

And really, why do you keep feeling no one is as poor as you or has ever been in your shoes? I'm in the military, I am on call 24/7...if we add up an hourly wage going by those figures I probably make about $1.50 an hour. Stop playing the victim here at all turns.

If God told you to give 10%, would you? You said it's an impossibility...would you give it? I'm unsure if my faith is strong enough to give 50%, that's for sure.
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Now, this makes more sense to me. God has not told you to give 10% is a good enough reason for me. I have no issues with that.

And, aren't we all lacking in faith? I didn't say you didn't have faith, but you surely don't have faith enough to give 10%. Just like I might not have enough faith to give 50% or whatever number we are dealing with.

And really, why do you keep feeling no one is as poor as you or has ever been in your shoes? I'm in the military, I am on call 24/7...if we add up an hourly wage going by those figures I probably make about $1.50 an hour. Stop playing the victim here at all turns.

If God told you to give 10%, would you? You said it's an impossibility...would you give it? I'm unsure if my faith is strong enough to give 50%, that's for sure.


One thing to remember is that God will not ask us to give more than we can. If one prays to God for guidance, whether the Lord says to put 20 or 120 dollars in the plate this Sunday we know this is what we are to do and the Lord will meet our needs.

Our giving isn't about the amount we give, it's about our obedience in giving what the Lord directs us to give.

On a personal note in this area, when the Lord led us to our current church and before I had joined the church, the Lord led me to give a certain amount. The week before I became a member the Lord made it clear that as a member I was to double our giving. On the surface, in my own reasoning, this seemed like a potentially huge problem as I could see no way to fit such into our planned budget. Thankfully, I obeyed the Lord and somehow I've never noticed a difference in effecting our budget.

We really shouldn't over think all this. Take the issue to the Lord in prayer; listen for His answer, then whatever He leads one to give, obey Him and trust Him.
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One thing to remember is that God will not ask us to give more than we can. If one prays to God for guidance, whether the Lord says to put 20 or 120 dollars in the plate this Sunday we know this is what we are to do and the Lord will meet our needs.

Our giving isn't about the amount we give, it's about our obedience in giving what the Lord directs us to give.

On a personal note in this area, when the Lord led us to our current church and before I had joined the church, the Lord led me to give a certain amount. The week before I became a member the Lord made it clear that as a member I was to double our giving. On the surface, in my own reasoning, this seemed like a potentially huge problem as I could see no way to fit such into our planned budget. Thankfully, I obeyed the Lord and somehow I've never noticed a difference in effecting our budget.

We really shouldn't over think all this. Take the issue to the Lord in prayer; listen for His answer, then whatever He leads one to give, obey Him and trust Him.


Of course you're right John. I don't know if I believe in the 10% thing anymore but surely if God leads us to give a certain amount we should obey (even if it seems like impossible and we do not know how we could even eat after giving that amount). God will provide our basic needs.
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The first tactic of the devil, all the way from the Garden of Eden, is to say... "Yea, hath God said???"

The devil wants us to doubt and water down the Word of God.

There are alot of man made rules in fundamentalism and I'm against each and every one of them.

But I firmly believe that the entire Bible has made a case for 10% being the basic, bottom line of what we should give.

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The first tactic of the devil, all the way from the Garden of Eden, is to say... "Yea, hath God said???"

The devil wants us to doubt and water down the Word of God.

There are alot of man made rules in fundamentalism and I'm against each and every one of them.

But I firmly believe that the entire Bible has made a case for 10% being the basic, bottom line of what we should give.


If that's what you believe then that's how you should give.

Yet what God hath said to Christians is that we are to give according to as God leads in our hearts. If God leads you to give 10%, then that's what you should give.
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