Will A Man Rob God?

[trc123]

I find only one instance in the New Testament of the Disciples giving money, and that was to the local government, not the Temple. And they had to fish for that money (Matthew 17:27)

God never told the people of the Old Testament to give Him their money. He wanted tithes of crops, flocks and herds. He wanted meat offerings. He wanted sin offerings that were to be killed and burned. Wave offerings of grain and that which could be grown.

Abraham was rich in gold and yet there is no instance in the Word of God that says he gave any of it to the Tabernacle.
When gold was used in the Tabernacle, it was not used for paying bills and such, it was beaten down and used to cover the ark, and other objects of the Tabernacle.

God isn't after our money. He wants our hearts. The 2-3% that I am able to give (sometimes less) is just as much to God as the 10-15% that others give... because I give what I am able to give and from the heart.

As one who has stayed out of this discussion, I would like to make an observation. Standing Firm In Christ, you have no doubt heard the quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet (Act III, scene II), "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." The truth this brings forth could also be said this way, "Methinks thou doth protest too much."

[Standing Firm In Christ]

As one who has stayed out of this discussion, I would like to make an observation. Standing Firm In Christ, you have no doubt heard the quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet (Act III, scene II), "The lady doth protest too much, methinks." The truth this brings forth could also be said this way, "Methinks thou doth protest too much."

My only protest is against those who teach requirements where God's Word gives no such authority to do so.

It was the Pharisees of Jesus' day who added their own rules and guidelines above that which God required. Methinks many today follow in their footsteps. Edited August 26, 2010 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Anon]

Just because some of us believe God tells us in the Bible to do something does not make us Pharisees.

Seems like these days "God looks on the heart" is a reason to do pretty much anything we want, in the name of "grace".

Just sayin'.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Pharisees were famous for adding rules and regulations that God never authorized.

Many things taught in the pulpits today come from man's imagination and not from the Word of God.

Sure, God wants us to make sure the pastor is taken care of, that we support missions, that we take care of the electric bills for the Sanctuary. But, there is not one rule or regulation that says each individual is to give at least X amount or he or she is selfish and robbing God.

In the Old Testament, the poor were not required tithes. Instead, they were allowed to go in the farmers' fields and glean that which had fallen to the ground. This was their provision from God.

The only ones required to tithe were the farmers and herders. They tithed to the Levites, who were the only ones authorized to receive the tithe that went to the Tabernacle. The Levites tithed a tenth of that tithe to the High Priest, who was also a Levite.

There is no instance in God's Word that says He ever changed that. As a matter of fact, the Mosaic Law declared that it would be thus for all future generations of the Levite tribes.

One has no business telling another he or she needs to tithe unless that one can point one to a Levite who is the only one authorized to receive the tithe according to the Word of God.

To say man can, and is required to, give a tithe to anyone else is to add one's own rules and regulations to God's Word.

God's Word declares each man is to give as he purposes in his own heart what he will give. To teach someone that they are robbing God, or selfish if they don't give at least 10% or X amount, is adding one's own rules and regulations where God never gave such authority.

God's tithe never consisted of money. To teach that people must tithe of their money is to add man's rules and regulations where God never gave such command.

Many teach outside the boundaries of God's Holy Word their own doctrines putting man under constraint and fear.

In the words of James, My Brethren, these things ought not so to be.

[irishman]

Sure, we could give 10% of our income. But this would mean we do without food and medications for the month and gas to get back and forth to Church.

God does not expect 10% from anyone unless they have vowed to give Him 10%.

Don't judge the poor unless you have walked in their shoes.

that is probably why you are poor, because you will not trust God to provide!

[Standing Firm In Christ]

that is probably why you are poor, because you will not trust God to provide!

You accuse falsely.

I am poor because I am on disability due to blindness and other medical issues that are well documented.

Your accusations are uncalled for.

[Annie]

FWIW, I agree that God does not require a "tithe" from us. We are not under the law, but under grace, and should give as much as we possibly can out of gratitude...which for most of us is far more than 10% of our monthly salary.

As far as "poor people" go...the story of the widow's mite would seem to be instructional...not that everyone must always give everything they have, but that those who are poverty stricken shouldn't use that as an excuse never to give anything...and that God does promise to provide our needs as His children. Again, 10% is not required, but "cheerful giving" (Eph.) is.

Edited August 26, 2010 by Annie

[Standing Firm In Christ]

FWIW, I agree that God does not require a "tithe" from us. We are not under the law, but under grace, and should give as much as we possibly can out of gratitude...which for most of us is far more than 10% of our monthly salary.

As far as "poor people" go...the story of the widow's mite would seem to be instructional...not that everyone must always give everything they have, but that those who are poverty stricken shouldn't use that as an excuse never to give anything...and that God does promise to provide our needs as His children. Again, 10% is not required, but "cheerful giving" (Eph.) is.

And nowhere have I said or even implied that I do not give at all. I have stated in more than one post that I give what I am able to give. But some want to falsely accuse me of selfishness.

[Annie]

And nowhere have I said or even implied that I do not give at all. I have stated in more than one post that I give what I am able to give. But some want to falsely accuse me of selfishness.

Well, don't count me in that group, Standing Firm. (I haven't read all of the posts, so I'm not even sure who you're talking about.) I understand what it is like to give in faith that God will provide...We have five kids and live on a "below poverty level" income. I'm always thrilled when we are able to give above what we thought we could give! God has always been faithful to meet our needs, and a lot of our "wants," too!

[MaxKennedy]

Actually, a tithe isn't that much money. But we are under grace, not law.
"So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity;
for God loves a cheerful giver" (2 Corinthians 9:7).

Putting people under a law is taking away the love and cheerfulness and is not God. As
pointed out earlier, God looks at the heart - the widows mite in example.

I remember when I was around twelve, someone tried the tithe of mint and rue and every
kind of garden herb on me. I looked at the verse, and said there was one problem with
it. "What?" They said. "I'm not a pharesee" I said. I got a good laugh at that from the
crowd - and its a reminder. I've been getting this type of grief in churches for
a long time - and so has every other blood bought believer in Christ, because they
did the same thing to him.

The full verse:
But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass
over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

The real problem with verses isn't just the legalistic amount from the old law, its who we're
suppose to pay it to. There are no more priests. We are all the priesthood of believers,
and in Acts the church held everything in common. The intent is not to just "tithe" an
amount to God, but for the individual believer in Christ to give up his right to be a priest
and use it under the direction God gives him. If God gives you direction to give to a local
ministry, then do so. But if He gives you direction to give otherwise, follow God. Thats
the intent of the tithing ideas - to set up a priesthood other than the priesthood of believers.

The other problem with tithing doctrines is the prosperity ministers. They are robbing God.
You can't worship both God and money. While they intently claim that the tithe is from
a harvest of money, my bible says God's harvest is a harvest of souls. They have robbed
God, teaching money and not soul winning.

Edited August 27, 2010 by MaxKennedy

[Anon]

The New Testament sets a precedents of gathering money together in the LOCAL CHURCH and using it as needed through that church, whether for missionaries or to support the pastor or help the poor or all of the above.

So that kinda X-es out tv evangelists anyways. Unless you are in their "local church". Right. haha.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Well, don't count me in that group, Standing Firm. (I haven't read all of the posts, so I'm not even sure who you're talking about.) I understand what it is like to give in faith that God will provide...We have five kids and live on a "below poverty level" income. I'm always thrilled when we are able to give above what we thought we could give! God has always been faithful to meet our needs, and a lot of our "wants," too!

I wasn't, Annie. I understood your post.

[MaxKennedy]

The New Testament sets a precedents of gathering money together in the LOCAL CHURCH and using it as needed through that church, whether for missionaries or to support the pastor or help the poor or all of the above.

So that kinda X-es out tv evangelists anyways. Unless you are in their "local church". Right. haha.

Not quite, they also collected money and sent it to Jerusalem. You will also see they held everything in common. Baptist forms of governance may not be exactly the same as in the New Testament, but God doesn't care how we organize as men - I can't find how to set up the YMCA in the bible either. However, when we don't recognize what the body is or who is the head, we put ourselves into bondage to men, many of whom may not be saved and are Christians in name only. In Revelation, you will find men who followed Jesus wherever he went and were virgins. That is the way to be, and not be beholden to man made churches and man made doctrines.

[MaxKennedy]

The New Testament sets a precedents of gathering money together in the LOCAL CHURCH and using it as needed through that church, whether for missionaries or to support the pastor or help the poor or all of the above.

So that kinda X-es out tv evangelists anyways. Unless you are in their "local church". Right. haha.

See, this doesn't match that:

1 Corinthians 16:1-3
1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

3And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

[Anon]

See, this doesn't match that:

1 Corinthians 16:1-3
1Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.

2Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.

3And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.

Yeah it does...on Sunday, they laid by their LIBERAL offerings aside and let it collect every Sunday until Paul came to get the missions offering when he came. Or rather his courier came and got it with an armoured truck. haha sorry just kidding...anyway...yeah that's what I meant...on Sunday's they gave their offering...a generous one...and collected it and it was used for other churches. Of course other verses also support paying the pastor full time, and such...and nowadays we have building costs...but its all the same thing.

I have a hard time believing that "liberal" giving was even less than 10%, since Jews were used to giving 10%.