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a few thoughts from a young Evangelist, on "numbers"


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I was reading some of Evangelist Justin Cox's "tweats" earlier and thought a few of these would be interesting to y'all! BTW, this is coming from a graduate of Paul Chappell's (sp?) school! IMHO, I believe he's getting his head on straight!

"Let the Spirit Of God, Who alone can Convict & Convert, do alone the "counting" of those saved through our ministries.
11:46 AM Aug 1st via txt
Preach the Gospel, let the Word preached draw the response & don't presume 2 know the heart of those who respond.
11:45 AM Aug 1st via txt
Tired of all the #'s we so flippantly throw out & how casually we assume all those who profess actually posses. Salvation is of the LORD.
11:42 AM Aug 1st via txt"

Just some food for thought and/or discussion.

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A Baptist fellowship here in Iowa-Nebraska area seemed fairly focused on numbers. When church planters would give their updates, the more senior pastors would ask about numbers. It added pressure to these new church planters to produce and made for some uncomfortable conversations.

During one of the preaching sessions, the most-respected pastor of the group admonished us to stop concentrating on numbers. His point was that God sent men to plant churches in small towns, and as long as they were working God's plan as it should be worked, the numbers were God's responsibility. It took the pressure off the church planters, and the fellowship became much more enjoyable, and I think productive for the newer pastors.

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A Baptist fellowship here in Iowa-Nebraska area seemed fairly focused on numbers. When church planters would give their updates, the more senior pastors would ask about numbers. It added pressure to these new church planters to produce and made for some uncomfortable conversations.

During one of the preaching sessions, the most-respected pastor of the group admonished us to stop concentrating on numbers. His point was that God sent men to plant churches in small towns, and as long as they were working God's plan as it should be worked, the numbers were God's responsibility. It took the pressure off the church planters, and the fellowship became much more enjoyable, and I think productive for the newer pastors.


That's sad, that the senior pastors would be so intrigued by numbers! IMHO, most of that foolishness, is the easy believism (or if you prefer, "quick prayerism") croud! Red flags always go up, in my mind, when I hear someone say how many souls were saved, during some time frame or other! I'm glad the LORD turned the fellowship around!
Thanks for the reply!
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Looks like a two-headed coin here! There is another side; Numbers can also cause someone to fall under conviction because IT IS the Lord that saves, but those who go the most, get the most! Besides that, we need to remember that each of those numbers represent a soul, whether they "meant it" or not, is up to the Lord to decide, not us. As for "easy believeism" how hard is it supposed to be?

"Lord be merciful to me a sinner" seems quite easy to me!

Edited by irishman
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Looks like a two-headed coin here! There is another side; Numbers can also cause someone to fall under conviction because IT IS the Lord that saves, but those who go the most, get the most! Besides that, we need to remember that each of those numbers represent a soul, whether they "meant it" or not, is up to the Lord to decide, not us. As for "easy believeism" how hard is it supposed to be?

"Lord be merciful to me a sinner" seems quite easy to me!


Dear Brother, while I agree with you, for the most part, here, is where we'll disagree! The LORD is the one who "gets" them! Those who have "souls" won, usually brag about it soooooooooooooo much, that, if there were any rewards for THEIR efforts, they'd certainly loose them, right off! As a side-note, I've never known a "soul winner" who was Spiritual! It's always been my experience, that they've been the most carnal bunch, I've ever seen and I've seen a lot of them and their wickedness and foolishness! I believe in knocking on doors, passing out tracts, telling others about the LORD, giving to missions and getting the gospel out, but not this salesmanship way, most folk do! If you "win" them, they're going to Hell, 'cause they're "YOUR CONVERTS!" If the LORD convicts them and they repent of their sins and receive Him as their LORD and Saviour, they're going to Heaven and they'll be right with God, while here in this world!
One more thing! For many years now, there's been an unscriptural shift, in our churches! It's not about Heaven and Hell, it's about sin and the Saviour! Too many times, people are given this "you don't want to go to Hell, do you?" line, instead of telling them their sins have seperated them from GOD!
Just a few more thoughts.
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Yes, many try to do the work of the Holy Spirit, and refuse to get out of the way and let God's Holy Spirit do its part. Oh, if they be any increase, God gives it, not man.

Those who are so interested in numbers, usually compromise to get those numbers.


You're exactly right!
AMEN, Brother!
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In my situation, it seemed that some of the church planters were getting professions of faith without the true conversion of faith. Their numbers weren't joining their churches.


Brother, that happens to everybody who chooses to go that wicked ungodly route!
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Dear Brother, while I agree with you, for the most part, here, is where we'll disagree! The LORD is the one who "gets" them! Those who have "souls" won, usually brag about it soooooooooooooo much, that, if there were any rewards for THEIR efforts, they'd certainly loose them, right off! As a side-note, I've never known a "soul winner" who was Spiritual! It's always been my experience, that they've been the most carnal bunch, I've ever seen and I've seen a lot of them and their wickedness and foolishness! I believe in knocking on doors, passing out tracts, telling others about the LORD, giving to missions and getting the gospel out, but not this salesmanship way, most folk do! If you "win" them, they're going to Hell, 'cause they're "YOUR CONVERTS!" If the LORD convicts them and they repent of their sins and receive Him as their LORD and Saviour, they're going to Heaven and they'll be right with God, while here in this world!
One more thing! For many years now, there's been an unscriptural shift, in our churches! It's not about Heaven and Hell, it's about sin and the Saviour! Too many times, people are given this "you don't want to go to Hell, do you?" line, instead of telling them their sins have seperated them from GOD!
Just a few more thoughts.



One man told me about a evangelist they had for a revival service. They went visiting together, at one house they stayed, and stayed, he tried to get the evangelist to leave, but he refused, said he would not leave until that person confessed Christa as Savior. Finally long as last they left without the person confessing Christ as Savior.

His thought, this evangelist was wrong, when visiting people in their homes you so not stay and stay, that this man embarrassed him. Sad the man said, "Never leave until they confess Jesus, no matter how long it may take.

With this man, they might not be glad when he comes, yet when he finally leaves everyone will be glad.
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One man told me about a evangelist they had for a revival service. They went visiting together, at one house they stayed, and stayed, he tried to get the evangelist to leave, but he refused, said he would not leave until that person confessed Christa as Savior. Finally long as last they left without the person confessing Christ as Savior.

His thought, this evangelist was wrong, when visiting people in their homes you so not stay and stay, that this man embarrassed him. Sad the man said, "Never leave until they confess Jesus, no matter how long it may take.

With this man, they might not be glad when he comes, yet when he finally leaves everyone will be glad.


I know, if I were in their shoes, I'd do whatever it took, to get that fool to leave! That's what most people do, when these "soul winners" show up! And they think they're getting folk saved? How craaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzy is that!
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