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         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

"Who will have all men to be saved"


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1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of
God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved,
and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man
Christ Jesus;
6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Edited by heartstrings
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1 Timothy 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of
God our Saviour;
4Who will have all men to be saved,
and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man
Christ Jesus;
6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

I'm going to deliberately misquote the 4th verse. Watch for the error.

"Who will save all men."

No, God is not going to save all men, though it be His will that all be saved.

The Bible's plan of salvation contains the element of decision. In other words, the Bible's God is not like Neanderthals who went about kidnapping women to marry them while caring nothing about how the girls might feel about it. God is unwilling that any should perish, yes; however, it is not His decision to make. It is the sinner's decision.

†. Ezk 18:23 . . Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

In the book of Revelation is depicted a scene from the future which John actually saw for himself. In the scene, people are thrown into a reservoir of liquefied flame from which there is no return. The reason there is no return is because the reservoir is clearly labeled a second death (Rev 2:11, Rev 20:6, Rev 20:11-15). That is very important to note because there is only one resurrection allotted per person.

†. Dan 12:2 . . And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

†. John 5:28-29 . . Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I once heard of a preacher who was asked by an inquiring mind what one would have to do to go to Hell. He responded: You don’t have to do anything; just bide your time: Hell is the default.

†. John 3:14-15 . . And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

In Num 21:5-9, the people of Israel became weary of eating manna all the time at every meal. But instead of courteously, and diplomatically, petitioning their Lord and Master for a different diet, they became hostile and confrontational, angrily demanding better food. In reply; The Lord sent a swarm of poisonous vipers among them; which began biting and killing people; and every bite was 100% fatal, no exceptions. Then the people realized their mistake and asked Moses to intercede. In reply; The Lord instructed Moses to construct an effigy of the vipers and hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that everyone dying from venom could look upon the effigy for relief.

†. 2Cor 5:14 . . we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead

The Bible's Jesus did indeed die for all; because all are literally dead men walking.

†. Isa 53:6 . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

†. 1John 2:2 . . He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

However, the Lord's cross is much like that serpentary effigy in that dead men walking must look to it for relief. Within the context of John 3:14-18, those who fail to look to Jesus' crucifixion to protect themselves from the wrath of God are already condemned to death, no waiting period. So that death in the reservoir isn't the option, no, it's the default— life is the option, and according to Jesus, the majority have not been OBtaining it.

†. Luke 13:23-24 . . Then said one unto him: Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

†. Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

†. Mtt 22:14 . .For many are invited, but few are chosen.

The million dollar question is: Who gets chosen? Answer: Those who look to the cross for safety from the wrath of God. The rest are in line for the reservoir of liquefied flame even before they cross over to the other side.

†. John 3:16-18 . . For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not His son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God.

C.L.I.F.F.
/ Edited by Webers_Home
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If we are followers of Christ we should walk so close to Christ, OBeying His Word in all things, that others see Christ in us.

Followers of Christ are to be involved in spreading the Gospel and making disciples, true followers of Christ, not just professed converts.

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I'm going to deliberately misquote the 4th verse. Watch for the error.

"Who will save all men."

No, God is not going to save all men, though it be His will that all be saved.

The Bible's plan of salvation contains the element of decision. In other words, the Bible's God is not like Neanderthals who went about kidnapping women to marry them while caring nothing about how the girls might feel about it. God is unwilling that any should perish, yes; however, it is not His decision to make. It is the sinner's decision.

†. Ezk 18:23 . . Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

In the book of Revelation is depicted a scene from the future which John actually saw for himself. In the scene, people are thrown into a reservoir of liquefied flame from which there is no return. The reason there is no return is because the reservoir is clearly labeled a second death (Rev 2:11, Rev 20:6, Rev 20:11-15). That is very important to note because there is only one resurrection allotted per person.

†. Dan 12:2 . . And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

†. John 5:28-29 . . Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

I once heard of a preacher who was asked by an inquiring mind what one would have to do to go to Hell. He responded: You don’t have to do anything; just bide your time: Hell is the default.

†. John 3:14-15 . . And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

In Num 21:5-9, the people of Israel became weary of eating manna all the time at every meal. But instead of courteously, and diplomatically, petitioning their Lord and Master for a different diet, they became hostile and confrontational, angrily demanding better food. In reply; The Lord sent a swarm of poisonous vipers among them; which began biting and killing people; and every bite was 100% fatal, no exceptions. Then the people realized their mistake and asked Moses to intercede. In reply; The Lord instructed Moses to construct an effigy of the vipers and hoist it up on a pole in plain view so that everyone dying from venom could look upon the effigy for relief.

†. 2Cor 5:14 . . we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead

The Bible's Jesus did indeed die for all; because all are literally dead men walking.

†. Isa 53:6 . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned everyone to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

†. 1John 2:2 . . He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

However, the Lord's cross is much like that serpentary effigy in that dead men walking must look to it for relief. Within the context of John 3:14-18, those who fail to look to Jesus' crucifixion to protect themselves from the wrath of God are already condemned to death, no waiting period. So that death in the reservoir isn't the option, no, it's the default— life is the option, and according to Jesus, the majority have not been OBtaining it.

†. Luke 13:23-24 . . Then said one unto him: Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

†. Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

†. Mtt 22:14 . .For many are invited, but few are chosen.

The million dollar question is: Who gets chosen? Answer: Those who look to the cross for safety from the wrath of God. The rest are in line for the reservoir of liquefied flame even before they cross over to the other side.

†. John 3:16-18 . . For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not His son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God.

C.L.I.F.F.
/


Correct....all men are not going to be saved. But it is, nevertheless, God's WILL that all be saved.
This thread was intiated as a refutation of Calvinism.
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This thread was intiated as a refutation of Calvinism.


You didn't even need to mention that as most threads you begin are for that purpose. Hasn't this horse been beaten to death already? I've not noticed any pro-Calvinism posts in some time now so what's the point of yet another thread in addition to the dozens already there that say the same thing?
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You didn't even need to mention that as most threads you begin are for that purpose. Hasn't this horse been beaten to death already? I've not noticed any pro-Calvinism posts in some time now so what's the point of yet another thread in addition to the dozens already there that say the same thing?


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Thank you for the link. That topic was begun a few days ago and as the OP states was put forth for those who wish to discuss the merits of the linked article. I've not yet read that entire article so I've not commented.

That thread was not put forth as a pro-Calvinism thread, but as for the stated purpose of discussing the linked article.

Heartstrings, I would very much like to read your comments regarding that article within that thread as perhaps we could learn more.

This particular thread is simply more of what you have posted in a dozen or so other threads. There is nothing wrong with what you are putting forth, but if you wish to continue with the same postings why not bump up one of the many existing threads rather than starting another?

Better yet (hopefully) might be to consider the other thread with an article that hasn't been addressed and the OP says puts things in a different or better manner than what some have tried to put forth before.

As I've stated, I for one would look forward to reading what you have to say regarding the article in that thread. If such were to occur before I have finished the article (I haven't got far at all) I would be prompted to carve out more time to read it.



(Weber and Cooper have proven to be loons, with their ideas it's okay to beat ones wife into submission, that women have to bear children to be saved, and men can undress other mens wives with their eyes and have erotic fantasies and it's not sin. I don't think anyone who has read their unbiblical postings take them seriously or give weight or attention to their postings)
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No thanks. I've read enough. I even sat through a few of his sermons as my former pastor was downloading and reading Piper's sermons off practically word for word. I discovered this by accident one Sunday, and after praying for several sleepless nights, simply asked him about it. He got defensive and belligerent about it, then started accusing me. I believe Piper is a highly educated false teacher and I would beware if I were you. If you are a sheep, you should know when the voice isn't right.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

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No thanks. I've read enough. I even sat through a few of his sermons as my former pastor was downloading and reading Piper's sermons off practically word for word. I discovered this by accident one Sunday, and after praying for several sleepless nights, simply asked him about it. He got defensive and belligerent about it, then started accusing me. I believe Piper is a highly educated false teacher and I would beware if I were you. If you are a sheep, you should know when the voice isn't right.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.


Understood. I never even noticed who the article was written by until you mentioned this so I went and checked and I do see it is by Piper.

The only thing I know about Piper is I hear him quoted a lot and it seems folks either love him or hate him. I've never heard him preach or read any of his books.

Adrian Rogers was against the teaching of Calvinism yet he praised Calvins major work, calling it one of the best ever put forth. I thought that was interesting when I learned of it.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to share your input on this. :thumb:
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Correct....all men are not going to be saved. But it is, nevertheless, God's WILL that all be saved. This thread was intiated as a refutation of Calvinism.

Well, I had no idea it was a refutation of Calvanism because you didn't include a statement to that effect. In point of fact, because of your strong emphasis on verse 4; I assumed you were a universalist.

It was not my intention to refute any of the so-called five points of Calvanism but rather to refute universalism's philosophy that (1) everybody is God's kin, and (2) nOBody goes to a Hell.

1Tim 2:4-6 is one of their favorite "proof" texts. Ironically, though the universalists with whom I've dialogued believe their proof texts to be Spirit-fathered, they insist that the remainder of the Bible is not, and therefore cannot be trusted. One of their ilk even insisted that the only portion of the entire Bible that's Spirit-fathered are the four Gospels!

(chuckle) He really painted himself into a corner with that position since the gospel of John states quite clearly, and without ambiguity, that it's necessary to undergo a second birth as per John 1:12-13 and John 3:3-8 in order to OBtain the right to a place around the table in God's home as His lawful kin.

C.L.I.F.F.
/
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Well, it's pretty simple. If you like Calvin, you will like Piper, if you hate Calvin, you will hate Piper. Being more on the Reformed side myself, I like Piper. I don't idolize him or agree with him on everything though. Just a disclaimer in case anyone wants to accuse me of being yet another Piper fanboy.

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I would like to note one thing though, heartstrings, it is foolish to attempt to refute someone before hearing them out. I have been fair and read relevant articles posted by the non-reformed side, but you refuse to read anything I put forth. To have any meaningful discussion, both sides should hear each other out. Honestly, this attitude by the non-reformed drives those with the opposing view further into reformed theology because the reformed are usually more calm and patient when discussing this issue - a more Christian attitude if you ask me. If you truly cared about the reformed, you would hear them out. Only then would you know how to help them if you believe they need help. This begs the following question then: do you sincerely care about about the reformed, or do you just push those away who you can't sway with your arguments?

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*sigh* Since no one read this the first time, I guess I will make my letters big. Heart Strings started this topic a month ago. It just got bumped up my webers_home. This was not one of his recent posts against Calvinism. If you look above at his original post, it says it was started July 31.

Edited by amblivion
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Well, I had no idea it was a refutation of Calvanism because you didn't include a statement to that effect. In point of fact, because of your strong emphasis on verse 4; I assumed you were a universalist.
It was not my intention to refute any of the so-called five points of Calvanism but rather to refute universalism's philosophy that (1) everybody is God's kin, and (2) nOBody goes to a Hell.

1Tim 2:4-6 is one of their favorite "proof" texts. Ironically, though the universalists with whom I've dialogued believe their proof texts to be Spirit-fathered, they insist that the remainder of the Bible is not, and therefore cannot be trusted. One of their ilk even insisted that the only portion of the entire Bible that's Spirit-fathered are the four Gospels!

(chuckle) He really painted himself into a corner with that position since the gospel of John states quite clearly, and without ambiguity, that it's necessary to undergo a second birth as per John 1:12-13 and John 3:3-8 in order to OBtain the right to a place around the table in God's home as His lawful kin.

C.L.I.F.F.
/


Verse 4 does not mean that God is going to save everyone; it means that He WANTS everyone to be saved. Unfortunately, not every person will be saved, because not everyone is willing trust in Jesus. But those who are born of the Spirit, are saved forvever. I am not a universalist, calvinist, or even an arminian.
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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 0 replies
    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 1 reply
    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
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