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Deuteronomy 22:5


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"God did not tell us certain things were an abomination to Him and not give us the information we need to enable us not to do these abominations."

Does God hate sin. Is sin not an abomination to God?? Prov 6:16-19 list six things that God specifically tells us He hates. I understand we prioritize(sp) sins; but does God??

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"God did not tell us certain things were an abomination to Him and not give us the information we need to enable us not to do these abominations."

Does God hate sin. Is sin not an abomination to God?? Prov 6:16-19 list six things that God specifically tells us He hates. I understand we prioritize(sp) sins; but does God??

I think we've all been taught that sin is sin, no matter what. But, God does list some specific sins as abominations and others as that He hates (as in your reference), but not all of them. Sodomy is one that is an abomination - and leads to a reprOBate heart (one in which there is no thought of God at all). Mixing genders (whether it is clothes, hair or actions) leads to homosexuality. And homosexuality has been the downfall of any nation where it has been given prominence.
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There is no scriptural guideline for you to go by!

:bang:

Folks, I must back out of this discussion. I knew better than to even get involved, but I fell into temptation. I didn't mean any ill will, and I know I displayed some, so I ask your forgiveness and I'll go back into my cave now.
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I understand that the rOBes worn in the early days of which we are told about within the Bible by both man and woman were different, that the woman's rOBe was a pull over, the man's a wrap around. And with this custom of dressing God proclaimed, its an abomination for woman to wear that which pertained to man, and its an abomination for man to wear that which pertained to woman.

Abomination, is a very strong word, yet so many today take it so lightly as they do everything that pertains to what we wear, how we wear our hair, and what we put on our skin. Modesty, today modesty is just having a certain portion of our bodies covered, the world thinks that he young woman who is wearing a tight tank top, a pair of tight jeans, is modest.

Hardly anytime thinks that putting a tattoo on ones own body is a big deal, thousands of Christians, yes, thousands of born again believers, get tattooed every single day while not giving one thought to God is it right or wrong.

We today have a form of godliness, and we follow that which suits us, them strike out at those who dare to point out that we are not doing as God would have us to do. We let what we have been taught by the world prejudices us against God's ways, and bear more weight on our lives that the 'Living Word' given to us by God.

Peculiar, do we even understand what that means when God says:

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

It means different, so different that we stand out, people take notice. That is we are not like the people of the world, we do not follow their customs, their passions, their lustful ways, we are transformed:

Ro 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
Ro 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Yet most of us go along with the world on many issues, the way we dress, following the customs of the world which we are supposed to have overcome just as Jesus did.

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
1Jo 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Yet how many of us have really overcome this world? How many of us are letting that wicked one have a greater influence on us than Jesus? Remember, You can fool mankind, but never Jesus, and he is going to judge you by the words contained within this old 'Black Book.'

Joh 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

The world which most of us are tying to impress, will not be the judge, the measuring stick that is used to judge any of us, the Word of God will be the measuring stick that will be used. how do you feel you will measure up?

And some will even dare say that God has said something is an abomination to Him, yet say He has not given us the information needed for us to know what not to do to keep from doing those things which are an abomination to Him. I think the prOBlem is we don't want to know, we love our worldly ways and we refuse to change them even for our God and Savior.

No, we fefuse to surrender all to Him while we are claiming we have surrender all. We love worldly presures more than God and our Savior who gave His all on that Cross.

All to Jesus I surrender;
Humbly at His feet I bow,
Worldly pleasures all forsaken;
Take me, Jesus, take me now.
I surrender all, I surrender all,
All to Thee, my blessèd Savior,
I surrender all.

Ga 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

De 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God.

If you, a born again believer, can't tell the difference between clothing which pertaintet to man or woman, its you fault, not God's. I surely would hate to strand before Him in that day and say to Him, "But Sir, you did not give me enough information to keep from doing those things which are an abomination to You, so You see, its Your fault, not mine."


Its amazing to how upset people get over God's Word, not doubt, it can do this


Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

And God's Words will surely do this.

Lu 12:53 The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.

It offends many to the point they can not have a civil discussion without getting smarty.

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:bang:

Folks, I must back out of this discussion. I knew better than to even get involved, but I fell into temptation. I didn't mean any ill will, and I know I displayed some, so I ask your forgiveness and I'll go back into my cave now.


Don't feel bad Mitch, you raised excellent points. No one was able to show from the Bible God's definition of what is man's clothing and what is woman's. While some offered other points that were also good, I also saw a bunch of childish ad hominem attacks against you saying you're rejecting word of God and what not.

Par for the course for some.
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Don't feel bad Mitch, you raised excellent points. No one was able to show from the Bible God's definition of what is man's clothing and what is woman's. While some offered other points that were also good, I also saw a bunch of childish ad hominem attacks against you saying you're rejecting word of God and what not.

Par for the course for some.

I have to agree that Mitch raised some good points. This particular subject seems to raise the ire of pro-pants and anti-pants on women alike. I was pleased that the discussion stayed civil as long as it did. :icon_mrgreen:

I want to recommend the book again: The Fall and Rise of Christian Standards by Pastor David Kidd. http://www.amazon.com/Fall-Rise-Christian-Standards/dp/1594679975 One of the reviews sums it up well:
This book tackles a divisive issue in the church with scriptural reason and a gracious spirit. It answers all the hard questions about dress and appearance with biblical and practical logic. You may disagree with the authors position, but you will find it hard to base that disagreement on the Bible. Essential reading for every Christian! Highly recommended.
It's an excellent book, well written. And he brings things to light that many Christians either don't know or don't understand. A good book to have on your bookshelf, no matter how you land on the issue of clothing.
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Deut 22:11 "Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sort, as of woolen and linen together."

Even though the word 'abomination' is not used here as in vs 5; does not HIS statement "Thou shalt not" carry the same weight. If God tells one 'thou shall not' and he does it anyway; is this not sin? Therefore one cannot accept vs 5 and then reject vs 11 or vice versa.

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Don't feel bad Mitch, you raised excellent points. No one was able to show from the Bible God's definition of what is man's clothing and what is woman's. While some offered other points that were also good, I also saw a bunch of childish ad hominem attacks against you saying you're rejecting word of God and what not.

Par for the course for some.



I was not trying to be mean, believe me, if I am, there is no doubt about it! I just was trying to show the op what a silly question I thought that was, not worthy of an answer really. He is the same guy (I believe) that previously asked "where is the scripture defining what long hair is?" when these things are well known by everyone already!

I will bow out for now too, partly because I can't get on any forum but the IFB forums. and the next two after that, Something happened, and I lost the rest of them. I can go the other pages by pushing the tabs, but the front page that comes up when we first log in is messed up. Anyway, I really wasn't trying to be sarcastic, just making a point that the question seems like a silly question to me.
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Deut 22:11 "Thou shalt not wear a garment of divers sort, as of woolen and linen together."

Even though the word 'abomination' is not used here as in vs 5; does not HIS statement "Thou shalt not" carry the same weight. If God tells one 'thou shall not' and he does it anyway; is this not sin? Therefore one cannot accept vs 5 and then reject vs 11 or vice versa.

vs. 15 is teaching the principle of gender identification, a principle that is continued in the NT in various places.
vs. 11 is teaching the principles of separation and of purity, principles that are also continued in the NT.

A woman putting on man's garments and a man putting on a woman's garments is still an abomination to God. Lack of separation and purity is still sin.
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vs. 11 is teaching the principle of gender identification, a principle that is continued in the NT in various places.
vs. 5 is teaching the principles of separation and of purity, principles that are also continued in the NT.

A woman putting on man's garments and a man putting on a woman's garments is still an abomination to God. Lack of separation and purity is still sin.


I must admit I'm a little confused; should not your definitions be switched around?
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If I may, I would like to request the guidance of others on this Forum regarding the issue of gender-specific dress.

A few years ago, when I read Deuteronomy 22:5, “The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God” I took that instruction to heart and stopped wearing trousers.

Occasionally, I come across women (usually women from my place of employment but this would also happen at the Southern Baptist Church I used to attend) who ask me why I never wear pants but only long skirts and dresses. I would show them Deut. 22:5 and I would be accused of being too legalistic and narrow-minded on this point. I can truly say that my motive has not been legalism, but rather a sincere, deeply-rooted desire to please God in every aspect of my life including the issue of dress.

Those who disagree with my interpretation of Deut. 22:5 have countered with I Samuel 16:7, "But the Lord said unto Samuel, 'Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.'" The people who feel they are not bound by Deut. 22:5 use this Scripture to indicate that God does not care what a person wears, he looks “on the heart.”

My argument to that has been that if God did not care whether women wore men’s clothing, or vice versa, he would not have added the injunction found in Deut. 22:5 to the Scriptures. The verse in I Samuel pertains specifically to the prophet Samuel identifying David as the future king of Israel. It seems to me that it is incorrect to use the verse in I Samuel as a carte blanche argument against OBeying the rather clear teachings in the Scripture about modesty and appropriate dress.

Is my thinking on this issue flawed? To me, the Scriptures seem quite clear, but if I am mis-interpreting this issue or if my perspective on this matter is flawed I would appreciate being corrected.


Maybe I'm off base believing you're right on target. A conviction based on scripture truth in context is NEVER wrong. I tip my hat to you for sticking to a scripture based conviction.

Speaking frankly, God knows what the woman's body does to men's passion. Look at David and Bathsheba; David committed adultry as a result of what entered into the eye gate (see 2 Samuel 11:2). Some may ask why God wrote these details but, if the O.T. is a schoolmaster, we are better off to heed the warning.

I know the following is not in the context of Paul's discourse but the principle might be applied to dress.
Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

So, (1) Your conviction is in context with scripture Deu. 22:5
(2) Dress not in accordance with God's word is "unclean" to you and many of the rest of us too.
So, don't eat pants and short skirts (just joking).
(3) This has become something unclean to you and now you should stick to it unless the Holy Spirit convinces you otherwise.

However, after you explain your position to those who question you then, you have to leave it to the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Again, I applaude you having a conviction...it is refreshing to hear of and encouraging to me personally.
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Maybe I'm off base believing you're right on target. A conviction based on scripture truth in context is NEVER wrong. I tip my hat to you for sticking to a scripture based conviction.

Speaking frankly, God knows what the woman's body does to men's passion. Look at David and Bathsheba; David committed adultry as a result of what entered into the eye gate (see 2 Samuel 11:2). Some may ask why God wrote these details but, if the O.T. is a schoolmaster, we are better off to heed the warning.

I know the following is not in the context of Paul's discourse but the principle might be applied to dress.
Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

So, (1) Your conviction is in context with scripture Deu. 22:5
(2) Dress not in accordance with God's word is "unclean" to you and many of the rest of us too.
So, don't eat pants and short skirts (just joking).
(3) This has become something unclean to you and now you should stick to it unless the Holy Spirit convinces you otherwise.

However, after you explain your position to those who question you then, you have to leave it to the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

Philippians 4:7 And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Again, I applaude you having a conviction...it is refreshing to hear of and encouraging to me personally.


Thank you very much for your good counsel. I have thought of this situation when reading Romans 14:14, as well. (I liked your comment about not "eating" pants and short skirts). I also agree that it is best to leave conviction to the work of the Holy Spirit so I do not try to compel other people to adopt my form of dress. I'm actually rather quiet about such matters at the office because I do not wish to cause controversey, but my beliefs are rather OBvious for anyone who has eyes to see because of the long dresses/skirts and long hair (which I do not wear down--too impractical--I braid it and wrap it around and around the back of my head). I do occasionally get questions about what church I belong to or why I dress as I do. Someone once asked me if I was an Orthodox Jewish woman! It made me smile because I'm a blue-eyed, red-headed Irishwoman--I don't think I really look or sound particularly Jewish at all! It seems quite strange and rather sad to me, though, that a woman who seeks to dress and behave modestly is so unique that it causes comment.

Again, thank you for your good counsel and encouragement. May God richly bless you this day!
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"So sorry! It was late when I posted that, although that is no excuse! Thanks for the catch."

No prOBlem, we have all been there.

"vs.5 is teaching the principle of gender identification, a principle that is continued in the NT in various places."

For the most part I don't have trouble identifying the gender of an individual based soley upon them wearing pants. I have had to take a double-look based on their hair length.


"vs. 11 is teaching the principles of separation and of purity, principles that are also continued in the NT."

I don't believe we can separate this verse from the rest. Begining at verse 1 up to verse 11, God states "thou shalt not'.


Dealing with these type of verses, some believe that God will convict an individual's heart on whether its right or wrong. I do not believe God will convict one that it is wrong(sin) and then not convict others who are dealing with the same subject.

Some believe that we change from generation to generation; ie, how we dress, how we conduct church services, etc. This is true; however, God tells us that He is God and he changes not and his Word is forever settled in heaven.

Just like everyone else, I have My little checklist which I believe everyone should adhere to. :twocents: BUT I do not condemn others who do not meet what I think is right. For example: If a man wears a suit on Sunday morning, he should wear it Sunday evening, Wednesday night, revival time, etc. A man's hair should not be as long as to cover his ears or his shirt collar.

My conclusion is this: If I judge myself as much as I judge others (I know the Bible says Judge Not), I will be 100% better off.

God Bless

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