Local Church?

[irishman]

We hear few messages about the authority of the local church today, or so it seems. What about those "para-church " groups that spring up all over the place? One in particular, (just for an example--not to condemn or condone) is the "Creation Science" movement, which has already gotten much bad publicity with Ken Hovind and a few others.

Isn't the work of God supposed to be ordained by, and a ministry of, the local church? Yet we often give to other organizations, though they are doing a good thing, they are not under the auspices of the local church. We know that "The Chuch" is not confined to one body of believers, but it is important to recognize the local church, and that the church should ordain the work.

[JerryNumbers]

Yes, its actually the only authority, but it seems there be few that knows the local church is the authority, and few who will surrender to the local church. It seems many pastors wants to the the authority over the local church.

One pastor told me it had to be that way, for the church members did not know what is best for them. I'll be fair, I've had church members that say the pastor is the only authority there be.

[Anon]

Well the only thing is that most local churches feel the most important thing is to win the lost for Christ. And it IS.

Too many pastors are NOT well-schooled in Creation Science or other aspects of the Bible and I do think its a good thing that this organization is getting the information out there into the hands of pastors and other Christians.

Nothing wrong with an organization as long as its not trying to fill the qualifications of a church or claim to be a church or do the jOB of a church.

[John81]

Well the only thing is that most local churches feel the most important thing is to win the lost for Christ. And it IS.

Too many pastors are NOT well-schooled in Creation Science or other aspects of the Bible and I do think its a good thing that this organization is getting the information out there into the hands of pastors and other Christians.

Nothing wrong with an organization as long as its not trying to fill the qualifications of a church or claim to be a church or do the jOB of a church.

Agreed.

Along with this I'd add that Christians need to realize and put into practice the fact their first and primary duty for giving is to their local church. Too many Christians determine the amount they will give, whether it be a tithe or some other amount, and then they divide this among several ministries and their local church.

For those who tithe, the full tithe should go to the local church and any giving to other ministries should come from the remaining 90%.

[Bro K]

Isn't the work of God supposed to be ordained by, and a ministry of, the local church?

If the answer is Yes; does one need the approval of the local church to to the will of God for his life? The "work of God" is not singular; it involves several aspects of christian living and responsibilities that God have given us as individuals. Can a man know what God has placed in the heart of another man?? If I was a Pastor, I would never second-guess God what he has instructed another man to do!

[irishman]

"Isn't the work of God supposed to be ordained by, and a ministry of, the local church?

If the answer is Yes; does one need the approval of the local church to to the will of God for his life? The "work of God" is not singular; it involves several aspects of christian living and responsibilities that God have given us as individuals. Can a man know what God has placed in the heart of another man?? If I was a Pastor, I would never second-guess God what he has instructed another man to do!"


I did not say "the work of God" i am talking about ministries that are not a part of the local church. Bill Gothards seminars, Jack Van Empe seminars, etc, and yes, Creation science ministries that are apart from the ministries of the local church.

I started three rest home ministries, a jail ministry, and a hospital visitation ministry, and a few others when I was at Landmark, but when i left, they stayed! it was not MY ministry, but a ministry of the church, and it was the men of the church that got involved in it. The Lord used me to start them, but He did not necessarily give them to me specifically. I do not wish to second-guess God, by no means, but I do believe in the local church and that a ministry for the lord should be ordained by the church, no matter who the Lord chooses to use in it. I do not support a ministry that is not affiliated with the local church. (Even missionaries are "sent" by a church, usually)

[JerryNumbers]

The only organization that Jesus gave any authority to was the local church. Any money to be given to God's work is suppose to be through the local church, if you giving to some organization other than the local church, your not giving towards the work of God.

[Bro K]

The only organization that Jesus gave any authority to was the local church. - AGREE...Was the local church the only christian organization at that time?

Any money to be given to God's work is suppose to be through the local church - AGREE...As long as the money is being used for the work of the Lord.

[Anon]

The King James Bible translation was not the work of a local church....

I'm just saying most things should be local church but I don't know that its a rule somewhere that everything has to be. Winning souls and stuff, missionaries, evangelists, preaching...YES. Creation research? I dunno, I don't know why it would have to be.

[irishman]

The King James Bible translation was not the work of a local church....

I'm just saying most things should be local church but I don't know that its a rule somewhere that everything has to be. Winning souls and stuff, missionaries, evangelists, preaching...YES. Creation research? I dunno, I don't know why it would have to be.

If it is not through the local church, then it is an open door for ecumenicalism and unholy partnerships. If it is not local church, it must have to be of the (so-called) universal, invisible church which may include anyone that professes to be saved, no matter what they believe about salvation. There is no "worldwide, invisible church, else they would be doing world-wide, invisible works, as it seems that many do anyway. The "church" in Bible, is made up of many local churches in various areas, and under the authority of the local church in that area. Why would someone even want to work aside from the church? i do not believe that the Lord would endorse that when He died for the church, and spent so much time building His church.

[ptwild]

If it is not through the local church, then it is an open door for ecumenicalism and unholy partnerships. If it is not local church, it must have to be of the (so-called) universal, invisible church which may include anyone that professes to be saved, no matter what they believe about salvation. There is no "worldwide, invisible church, else they would be doing world-wide, invisible works, as it seems that many do anyway. The "church" in Bible, is made up of many local churches in various areas, and under the authority of the local church in that area. Why would someone even want to work aside from the church? i do not believe that the Lord would endorse that when He died for the church, and spent so much time building His church.

I don't know enough about this topic to offer any indepth comment, but off the top of my head, I have to question this assertion. If those churches in the Bible were left to their own authorities they would have been in a lot of trouble. It is quite OBvious that the many churches mentioned in the Bible in and around Palistine and the mediterranean coast were under the authority of the leaders of the church in Jerusalem. It is St. Paul, mainly, who asserts authority over the many churches, not their own local leadership. It makes sense to work this way, as there has to be some accountability. There has to be a central authority. Some would say that the Bible is the central authority, and they would be correct. But it is the persons whom we vest authority in ministering the Word to others that asserts this authority and needs to be held accountable. If each and every chruch is its own authority, then there is in fact no authority. And when the supposed authority is proven to be wrong/false, the local church will split and the cycle will continue to repeat itself, creating many many churches as the local body contines to split and split and split . . .

God is very clear that we are to be one undivided body.

[Bro K]

I Tim 3:4-5 "One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5) (For is a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

Surely the implication is that the Pastor must have authority over the church congregation.

[Bro K]

"It is St. Paul, mainly, who asserts authority over the many churches, not their own local leadership."

I Cor 1: 11-13... This implies that Christ was to be head of their church. I find no verses that shows Paul had authority over the everyday ministry of the local church he help establish.

"But it is the persons whom we vest authority in ministering the Word to others that asserts this authority and needs to be held accountable. If each and every church is its own authority, then there is in fact no authority."

These sentences seems to contradict each other??

"were under the authority of the leaders of the church in Jerusalem."

I haven't seen this in the Bible. How could they exercise authority; if they were not there to know what needed to be done?


Question is: Should we be like the catholic church and elect us a leader to whom we would be bound to? I say NO.

[Anon]

I don't think this thread is staying on topic....

Creation Research never claims to be a church or have a pastor, nor does it send out missionaries or even train preachers and missionaries...its simply a research and education business.

Most churches do not have the resources to take away from winning the lost to have this type of thing going on...science research and Creation education.

I don't see anything unbiblical about it at all.

I agree with the above poster...once you have given your tithe, offering, and missions to your own local church and you want to donate to a good cause, then go for it! There are other good causes out there that are not based out of churches....pro-life causes being another huge one that does not have to be out of a church but is worth our support.

[ptwild]

"It is St. Paul, mainly, who asserts authority over the many churches, not their own local leadership."

I Cor 1: 11-13... This implies that Christ was to be head of their church. I find no verses that shows Paul had authority over the everyday ministry of the local church he help establish.

"But it is the persons whom we vest authority in ministering the Word to others that asserts this authority and needs to be held accountable. If each and every church is its own authority, then there is in fact no authority."

These sentences seems to contradict each other??

"were under the authority of the leaders of the church in Jerusalem."

I haven't seen this in the Bible. How could they exercise authority; if they were not there to know what needed to be done?


Question is: Should we be like the catholic church and elect us a leader to whom we would be bound to? I say NO.

Christ is of course the head of the Church. However, we have persons here on earth (Bishops, priests, elders, pastors . . .) that are called out from amongst us to excercise Christ's authority and lead. And St. Paul had a lot more than authority over the ministry of the many churches. He pretty much had his hand in every little detail of not just what you refer to as the local church, but also the body of Christ as a whole.

The Church of Jerusalem was the "home church" of the apostles and it was from there that the development of the visible Church sprang. The other churches (Corinth, Ephesus, Galatia . . . ) were expected to follow the directions prescribed by the leaders of the Church of Jerusalem. It is, after all, the leaders of the Church of Jerusalemm who conducted the first Church Council (The Council of Jerusalem, A.D. 50) and laid out the requirments for gentile converts. They made these critical decisions without any consultation of the other churches and those churches were expected to abide by their decisions.

I am not suggesting that we affix any human with an infallible ability to govern our faith. However, I do believe that there should be structure within the faith and that the local church should not be left to its own devices without an accountability. I believe that is the biggest reason why there are so many churchs teaching so many different things. There must be overseers.