The Year of the Rapture

[OFIB Preacher]

Okay, OFIB - that's enough. The nit picking is being done by those who are trying to label him heretical. All he did was bring up a thought. There are innumerable people who have looked at all kinds of dates. And making that a main emphasis of one's life, or of setting dates, is wrong. But Rick didn't do that. He simply trotted out an idea. He didn't put anything in, nor change things around. He simply pointed out that, if scripture is talking about the generation of 1948, there are years that it could be. There is no difference in that and in saying that signs are pointing to His imminent return.

I really don't want to have to lock this thread...

If something is imminent, you don't need to look for the signs! You need to look for it to happen!!!
BTW, lots of people get passages all out of kilter, concerning the Rapture and the Revelation! There are TWO different events!!!

[Brother Rick]

I didn't call him a heretic, I just said he's giving heretical teaching! Someone can get a little out of kilter (heretical teaching) and not be a complete heretic! My words still stand!

Well buddy, you and your standing words are wrong. I wasn't teaching anything, I was throwing an idea out there for discussion. It's good to study Scripture and come up with ideas; God doesn't want us to be dullards. So long as we all recognize that all thoughts and opinions must be subject to the authority of the word of God.

Is this how you always treat people? Do you constantly wig out like this in real life over nothing?

If you disagree with someone, I'd recommend that in a calm, reasonable manner you offer Scripture verses that demonstrate what you're trying to say. I'm a preacher, I've preached on the street, nursing homes, rescue missions, high schools, in Papua New Guinea, in China, to old people, educated people, bums, Christians... so I appreciate your zeal and if I had to guess you're a good preacher.

But there's a time to preach, a time to teach, and a time to discuss. Preaching, when you should be calmly teaching or instructing comes across, well, in a way not too profitable. It certainly doesn't come across as sound speech.

If you want to keep wigging out on me, that's your decision. It just makes me laugh and you look... never mind. I'd just recommend that from here on out you take my advice on how to communicate for your own sake and the sake of whoever else you may deem as "teaching heresy".

Titus 2:7-8, "In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
[8] Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you." Edited June 22, 2010 by Rick Schworer

[JerryNumbers]

Really??? I think "he" was just trying to make friendly discussion.

There's nothing wrong with STUDYING the Bible, sir, and that's all I'm trying to do here. No where does it say we can't know the year, and no where does it say that we can postulate when He'll come back! Furthermore, we're given clear cut signs all throughout Scripture of things that will happen near His return, we're encouraged to look for those signs, and we're encouraged to look for His coming, and we're encouraged to STUDY. Making a guess amongst fellow believers isn't wrong, sinful, heresy, or something worthy of having a thread deleted or some new OBscure rule invented. No one is building a doctrine or encouraging anyone to max out their credit cards here. No one has abondoned the great commission here.

I wish Jesus would come back today, there's nother more important in this whole world then Jesus coming back as soon as possible. I'm excited about it and looking forward to it, and you and others would attempt to cast aspersions on a guy for making a guess like it's a sin or something??????

Who said there was anything wrong with studying the Bible, I surely did not, I firmly believe everyone should do as this verse commands.


2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


About Jesus' return, there is not one single thing that has to happen for Jesus to come for His own, His coming has been imminent every since He ascended to heaven. Those of the early church as well as all Christians down through history were told to watch and be ready.


Mt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Mt 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Mr 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Mr 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Mr 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

Mr 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.


To watch and be ready, for Jesus could come at any moment.

A good booklet to read on this subject is Jesus May Come Today by John R. Rice. Click on the name of the book and it should take you to it. I've got the booklet and I'm in the process of reading it right now, so far I totally agree with it.

By the way, I agree, I think it would be just great if Jesus came right this moment. In saying that, I hope I'm not saying that while thinking of my own well being, being selfish, hope Jesus comes just to keep me from having to die and or even suffer. We just need to be sure to watch and be ready, for his coming is imminent.

[OFIB Preacher]

Who said there was anything wrong with studying the Bible, I surely did not, I firmly believe everyone should do as this verse commands.


2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


About Jesus' return, there is not one single thing that has to happen for Jesus to come for His own, His coming has been imminent every since He ascended to heaven. Those of the early church as well as all Christians down through history were told to watch and be ready.


Mt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Mt 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Mr 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Mr 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.

Mr 13:35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:

Mr 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.


To watch and be ready, for Jesus could come at any moment.

A good booklet to read on this subject is Jesus May Come Today by John R. Rice. Click on the name of the book and it should take you to it. I've got the booklet and I'm in the process of reading it right now, so far I totally agree with it.

By the way, I agree, I think it would be just great if Jesus came right this moment. In saying that, I hope I'm not saying that while thinking of my own well being, being selfish, hope Jesus comes just to keep me from having to die and or even suffer. We just need to be sure to watch and be ready, for his coming is imminent.

AMEN!

[Wilchbla]

I don't see the OP as heretical. Now if Rick was to say "this is what the Bible teaches and God has shown it to me without a doubt now sell all your stuff and give me your money" than it's heretical.

[Brother Rick]

I don't see the OP as heretical. Now if Rick was to say "this is what the Bible teaches and God has shown it to me without a doubt now sell all your stuff and give me your money" than it's heretical.

Do you think that would work?

[Bro K]

Could you elaborate on which remarks "no one should be allowed to make?" I just re-read the thread and I don't see anything here that can not be discussed among believers (in my opinion). I'm really scratching my head on this one.

I agree. Bro Rick stated: I had a theory, and I was wondering what you guys thought of it. This isn't something I've claimed as being infallible truth, we all get ideas from time to time and this is just one of mine, and I'm not even sold on it. I'm just throwing it out there for discussion.

Even if a brother is wrong; we shouldn't condemn him, but help him in his understanding.

[Brother Rick]

I agree. Bro Rick stated: I had a theory, and I was wondering what you guys thought of it. This isn't something I've claimed as being infallible truth, we all get ideas from time to time and this is just one of mine, and I'm not even sold on it. I'm just throwing it out there for discussion.

Even if a brother is wrong; we shouldn't condemn him, but help him in his understanding.

Thanks brother, I appreciate that. I thought I certainly made myself clear in my OP, I mean really, how many times does a guy have to qualify his remarks? Last time I checked, we should all be ok with the free exchange of ideas so long as they're subject to Scripture without going hog wild on a fella.

[JerryNumbers]

I agree with OFIC 100%, we are not to set a date on Jesus' return, we are not to speculate on it, we are not to go around guessing what day, what month, what year, we are to be ready and watch, and until that day comes we are to go, teach, baptize, Teaching them to OBserve those things Jesus has commanded us.



Its quite plain, Jesus told us

Mt 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Lu 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Mr 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Mt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Mr 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

During the days Jesus walked on this earth He did not know when that time would come. That ought to be good enough for any good Christian to know that there is no way for them to know when they day will come and they should not be speculating on it. And yes, any kind of dates setting is wrong, for we are told he will come as a thief in the night, that clearly means we cannot know what second, minute, hour, whether it will be morning, afternoon, evening time, night time, what month, what year, Jesus will come for His own.


Rick Schworer wrote:

"So, I know we can't really know the day nor the hour, but it doesn't say we can't know the year.

I had a theory, and I was wondering what you guys thought of it. This isn't something I've claimed as being infallible truth, we all get ideas from time to time and this is just one of mine, and I'm not even sold on it. I'm just throwing it out there for discussion.

Matthew 24:32-34, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
[33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
[34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

So, as commonly taught, the fig tree is Israel. Israel putting forth leaves being Israel established as a nation in 1945.

Then it says that the generation that sees this will see the Second Coming.

I've heard that in the Bible a generation is 70 years and/or 100 years.

1948 + 70 years = 2018 - 7 year Tribulation = 2011 (Next year!)

or

1948 + 100 years = 2048 - 7 year Tribulation = 2041 (Don't cash in your IRA!)


Just a thought, what are your guy's thoughts?"




HappyChristian, Further more I cannot believe your taking up for such foolishness, that is the same thing as encouraging such behavior when it should be discouraged. Any type of date setters never help the cause of Christ Jesus.

[OFIB Preacher]

I agree. Bro Rick stated: I had a theory, and I was wondering what you guys thought of it. This isn't something I've claimed as being infallible truth, we all get ideas from time to time and this is just one of mine, and I'm not even sold on it. I'm just throwing it out there for discussion.

Even if a brother is wrong; we shouldn't condemn him, but help him in his understanding.

Yeah, I told what I thought of it! I tried to help him in his understanding, that he was wrong!
BTW, Bro, look forward to seeing you in Kingsport, in September!

[OFIB Preacher]

I agree with OFIC 100%, we are not to set a date on Jesus' return, we are not to speculate on it, we are not to go around guessing what day, what month, what year, we are to be ready and watch, and until that day comes we are to go, teach, baptize, Teaching them to OBserve those things Jesus has commanded us.



Its quite plain, Jesus told us

Mt 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Lu 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

Mr 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

Mt 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Mr 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

During the days Jesus walked on this earth He did not know when that time would come. That ought to be good enough for any good Christian to know that there is no way for them to know when they day will come and they should not be speculating on it. And yes, any kind of dates setting is wrong, for we are told he will come as a thief in the night, that clearly means we cannot know what second, minute, hour, whether it will be morning, afternoon, evening time, night time, what month, what year, Jesus will come for His own.


Rick Schworer wrote:

"So, I know we can't really know the day nor the hour, but it doesn't say we can't know the year.

I had a theory, and I was wondering what you guys thought of it. This isn't something I've claimed as being infallible truth, we all get ideas from time to time and this is just one of mine, and I'm not even sold on it. I'm just throwing it out there for discussion.

Matthew 24:32-34, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
[33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
[34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

So, as commonly taught, the fig tree is Israel. Israel putting forth leaves being Israel established as a nation in 1945.

Then it says that the generation that sees this will see the Second Coming.

I've heard that in the Bible a generation is 70 years and/or 100 years.

1948 + 70 years = 2018 - 7 year Tribulation = 2011 (Next year!)

or

1948 + 100 years = 2048 - 7 year Tribulation = 2041 (Don't cash in your IRA!)


Just a thought, what are your guy's thoughts?"




HappyChristian, Further more I cannot believe your taking up for such foolishness, that is the same thing as encouraging such behavior when it should be discouraged. Any type of date setters never help the cause of Christ Jesus.

AMEN, Brother Jerry!
BTW, thank you.

[Brother Rick]

I agree with OFIC 100%, we are not to set a date on Jesus' return, we are not to speculate on it, we are not to go around guessing what day, what month, what year, we are to be ready and watch, and until that day comes we are to go, teach, baptize, Teaching them to OBserve those things Jesus has commanded us.

You have taken an extremely strong stand against Christians even speculating on it. You're not simply speaking out of preference, you and OFIB are making accusations of sin, heresy, and bad behaviour. Such a strong stand certainly warrants a scripture passage that says that it is a sin to do what I have done.

HappyChristian, Further more I cannot believe your taking up for such foolishness, that is the same thing as encouraging such behavior when it should be discouraged. Any type of date setters never help the cause of Christ Jesus.

HappyChristian has done what a level headed moderator is supposed to do. Allow for the free exchange of ideas, so long as they are subject to the Bible. I'm not a "date setter", I'm a normal everyday Christian that is looking forward to Jesus Christ's return.

You have no verse to prove that speculating on the time of Christ's return is a sin.

You have no authority to make such accusations.

YOU and OFIB are the ones who are out of line here. Edited June 25, 2010 by Rick Schworer

[HappyChristian]

Okay, I think this has gone far enough. The OP wasn't setting dates. He was putting something up for discussion. And discussion is not calling someone a heretic for having a thought. I'm really sorry that some don't feel that the rapture can be discussed...it will be such a joyous occasion, and we are told to watch for His coming. Talking about it is one way to watch. Calling names isn't.

Definition of heretic:

somebody who holds unorthodox religious belief: a holder or adherent of an opinion or belief that contradicts established religious teaching

The OP made it clear that he didn't HOLD to or ADHERE to a set date. In fact, he said he knew we weren't to set dates. And he proceeded to expound on something he HEARD. And wanted to discuss it. Apparently cogent discussion was too far out of the realm for some people.

Thread is locked.