Training Children

[OFIB Preacher]

I beleive the verse is right, 100% right and it works every time. However, I think we need to grip it rightly. When it says he is old, I take it to mean "when he is mature." This then presumes upon the fact that he/she is a believer. I, like Bro. John, have a wayward 23 year old. He grew up in a preachers home, in an IFB church, in S. School, in Revival meetings, we lived conservative and by bible principles at home, and he still turned away when he moved out on his own. So, do I throw Prov. 22:6 out with the bathwater? No, I realize, I made some mistakes in my parenting, and I cling to the fact that God's word will not come back void. And the verse is true. If he never repents and turn his life back to the Lord, he, as I see it does not nor did not have real Christianity in his bossom. The real thing deep within has to be the basis upon which God brings to frutition that embedded word. This is all I can cling to. I see glimpses, but still I have to abandon him to the mercy and grace of the Lord. Thus, the verse is true. Time will tell if he comes back to the Lord.

Two cents worth,
Ben

Brother Ben, we're praying for y'all as a family and your son.

[OFIB Preacher]

That sir, is the best answer I have seen on this subject yet! Those five W's may just outline a hopeful plan for all our children. Saturate her life with the Word, all day long, every day, and she will be off to a fine start. We used to listen to cassettes of the "old timers" and gather around the tape player when Lester Roloff preached "Pawing in the Valley". It can still be found today, if anyone has the gumption to listen and heed.(It's old fashioned fundamental, hell fire and brimstone preachin', and it is great!)

Thank you, Brother! That's our heart's cry and desire! The only thing we plan to change from before she was born, is to give her more of it, than what we had! BTW, if ya want some more oldtime preachin', I'd be honored if you'd check out my site! My broadcasts aren't the best preachin' up there, but there're some really great messages on the site, by some great men of God!

[Bro K]

When taking promises/commandments from the OT; there are questions one must ask: To whom is He speaking to? Why is He giving the promises/commandments? Under what circumstances is He speaking? I've heard it said that there are over 3,000 commandments in the OT; we know that the Bible states that if one is guilty of one, he he guilty of all. Then we know that Christ said that He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it. We need to be VERY careful when we attempt to apply the OT law to NT teaching.

In regards to OP subject; I can name over three local pastors whose daughters have messed up their lives by becoming pregnant. Reminds me of hearing about Billy Sunday and how his sons had prOBlem with alcohol.

Just as important: The family 'structure' that we have here in America is very different from that of Israel in the OT. When our children marries, they leave the nest and start their own families. This is not the case in most other countries; in which they normally live in the same community all their lives, and the family elder (Grandfathers, great grandfathers) still carry a lot of authority over the entire family. I found this to be true while stationed in S. Korea many years ago.

[irishman]

When taking promises/commandments from the OT; there are questions one must ask: To whom is He speaking to? Why is He giving the promises/commandments? Under what circumstances is He speaking? I've heard it said that there are over 3,000 commandments in the OT; we know that the Bible states that if one is guilty of one, he he guilty of all. Then we know that Christ said that He came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it. We need to be VERY careful when we attempt to apply the OT law to NT teaching.

In regards to OP subject; I can name over three local pastors whose daughters have messed up their lives by becoming pregnant. Reminds me of hearing about Billy Sunday and how his sons had prOBlem with alcohol.

Just as important: The family 'structure' that we have here in America is very different from that of Israel in the OT. When our children marries, they leave the nest and start their own families. This is not the case in most other countries; in which they normally live in the same community all their lives, and the family elder (Grandfathers, great grandfathers) still carry a lot of authority over the entire family. I found this to be true while stationed in S. Korea many years ago.

The highlighted part I would like to comment on first. Yes, there seems to be a real attack on PK's, but many times, if the preacher will be honest, he will admit that he got so wrapped up in the ministry that he neglected to spend time with his kids. I could cite a few cases myself, where the preacher admitted it, when it was already too late. I do not mean to neglect the ministry for the families sake, by no means, but to find a medium between the two. The Lord is not pleased with either one when it conflicts with the other. if you preachers see this happening, guard your time, it is precious to your family too. Just because someone holds the office of pastor, doesn't mean he has everything right.


Next, let me say that which has been said already about Deut. 22:5, (as well as Prov. 22:6) and that is that if it was an "abomination" to God, whether under law or not, is He suddenly going to wink at it, and ignore it under grace? That is not a strong argument. God chose the word "abomination", most likely to emphasize to us how severe the sin is, and not to say that it is worse than another necessarily as far as being a sinner is concerned. We all know that sin is sin, but no one has ever proven that the Lord doesn't hate some more than others! He hates all sin, I believe, like us, He hates some worse than others. All sin is worthy of death (Rom. 6:23), but the judgment for all of it here on earth varies, depending on the crime. (Some were stoned for certain sins, some paid back double, etc). Edited August 1, 2010 by irishman

[JerryNumbers]

Perhaps the preacher, pastor, is suppose to already have his children raised before he enters the ministry. In fact, until his children are raised one cannot tell if he rules his house well, he is not proven. In fact, he really does not have the time needed to put into a church until his children are grown.

Seems many churches pays little attention to the verses that gives the qualification for a New Testament pastor.

1Ti 3:1 ¶ This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sOBer, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

[OFIB Preacher]

The highlighted part I would like to comment on first. Yes, there seems to be a real attack on PK's, but many times, if the preacher will be honest, he will admit that he got so wrapped up in the ministry that he neglected to spend time with his kids. I could cite a few cases myself, where the preacher admitted it, when it was already too late. I do not mean to neglect the ministry for the families sake, by no means, but to find a medium between the two. The Lord is not pleased with either one when it conflicts with the other. if you preachers see this happening, guard your time, it is precious to your family too. Just because someone holds the office of pastor, doesn't mean he has everything right.


Next, let me say that which has been said already about Deut. 22:5, (as well as Prov. 22:6) and that is that if it was an "abomination" to God, whether under law or not, is He suddenly going to wink at it, and ignore it under grace? That is not a strong argument. God chose the word "abomination", most likely to emphasize to us how severe the sin is, and not to say that it is worse than another necessarily as far as being a sinner is concerned. We all know that sin is sin, but no one has ever proven that the Lord doesn't hate some more than others! He hates all sin, I believe, like us, He hates some worse than others. All sin is worthy of death (Rom. 6:23), but the judgment for all of it here on earth varies, depending on the crime. (Some were stoned for certain sins, some paid back double, etc).

Brother, you're exactly right! Thank you, once again, for the admonishment!
Let me change the subject, for just a minute, but still stay in the same topic, if that makes sense! A good preacher who used to pastor an IFB church in our town, (full time, I might add,) said he wouldn't have a work day on Saturday, 'cause that was his "family time!" BTW, the men of his church worked public jOBs, during the week and the only day they could do any work around the church, was on Saturday! The pastor had all week at home with his kids, but he only allotted Saturday as his "family time" at the expense of his church! Without pin-pointing churches and getting myself in a dutch, the pastor and his family lived at the Parsonage, (or whatever you'd want to call it,) on the same property as the church!
Just giving an example, where the coin is flipped!

[Bro K]

Perhaps the preacher, pastor, is suppose to already have his children raised before he enters the ministry. In fact, until his children are raised one cannot tell if he rules his house well, he is not proven. In fact, he really does not have the time needed to put into a church until his children are grown.

Seems many churches pays little attention to the verses that gives the qualification for a New Testament pastor.

1Ti 3:1 ¶ This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sOBer, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

Are we to group 'Preachers and Pastors' in the same Position?? Not to get off the subject of this OP, I'm going over to the IFB Ministry section to start a new OP titled "Preachers vs Pastors".