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         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

DAMNABLE HERESIES INVADING THE CHURCH


John81
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

DAMNABLE HERESIES INVADING THE CHURCH



By Marsha West

May 29, 2010
NewsWithViews.com

A large number of Christians are unaware that literally truck loads of counterfeit Christians have gained access to pulpits, wormed their way into Church leadership, Christian organizations and are deeply entrenched in the so-called Christian entertainment industry. Call them what you will--false teachers/prophets, liberals/progressives, cultists, misinformed, misled, even looney tunes--the one thing they all have in common is that they have strayed from the truth.

Unbiblical teaching has been going on since the early church took root. Peter cautioned that “there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction” (2 Peter 2:1).

Today there is a damnable heresy in the Church that many Christians haven’t yet heard of: The New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) a.k.a. Dominionism/ Kingdom Now/Replacement Theology. Those who disagree with their false gospel must be removed through intense “spiritual warfare” and by raising up a “new breed “of Christian they call an “Army of God.”

The NAR is not new at all. Only the name has been changed—many times—to fool people into thinking there is a “New Wave” or a “Paradigm Shift” taking place in Christendom. Over the years they have dubbed themselves Joel’s Army, Latter Rain, Manifest Sons of God, and the list goes on. They’re ushering in “a reformation greater in scale than the reformation of the 1500's.”

A liberal pundit lamented that NAR is on a mission to “take control of communities and nations through large networks of 'prayer warriors' whose spiritual warfare is used to expel and destroy the demons that cause societal ills. Once the territorial demons, witches, and generational curses are removed, the 'born-again' Christians…take control of society."

The concept of spiritual warfare comes from the Bible. It warns of invisible beings who want to harm us and advises us to put on armor (spiritual armor) in order to ward off their vicious attacks. PrOBlem is, the way in which NAR practices spiritual warfare is both unorthodox and extra-biblical. First of all, they teach three levels of spiritual warfare:

"Ground-level" involves casting demons out of individuals; "occult-level warfare" involves more organized "powers of darkness" [They target here New Age thought, Tibetan Buddhism, Freemasonry, etc.]; and "strategic-level warfare" directly "confronts 'territorial spirits' assigned by Satan to coordinate activities over a geographical area."

In addition, they carry out other extra-biblical practices such as “binding Satan,” “rebuking demonic spirits,” “tearing down strongholds,” and “taking control of cities and situations.”

Why go to all the trouble of demolishing demonic strongholds, even if such things do exist, when the Bible teaches that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is sufficient for demolishing strongholds! (2 Cor 10:3-5).

Liberals/progressives actually fear born again Christians who hold a place of power, have political influence, and are well-connected. One reason the Left hated George W. Bush is because he purported to be a born again Christian. For daring to openly profess his faith in Jesus Christ, liberal elitists labeled him a religious zealot. The liberal press relish portraying individuals who professes a belief in Christ as not the sharpest knife in the tool shed. Never mind that a number of our Founding Fathers, who most will concede were brilliant men, were born again Christians.

Now it seems liberals have a bit of anxiety over “movement operative’s” plans to take dominion:

“The movement's notion of ‘spiritual warfare’ has spread from the California suburbs to an East-Coast inner city, and has impacted policy decisions in the developing world. Movement operatives are well-connected enough to have testified before Congress and to have received millions of dollars in government abstinence-only sex-education grants, and bizarre enough to maintain that in its prototype communities, the movement has healed AIDS, purified polluted streams and even grown huge vegetables.” (Note: Michelle OBama has also grown huge veggies in her garden at the White House.)

With all due respect, most progressives/liberals haven’t the foggiest idea what spiritual warfare even means. What they don’t quite “get” is that spiritual warfare is a metaphor for what is taking place in the invisible realm. The Bible tells us that Satan is the ruler of this world until Christ returns to judge the world. Moreover, the demonic forces control the minds of individuals. Jesus said to the Pharisees: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it” (John 8:44). What does this mean? John Wesley explains:

He was a murderer - In inclination, from the beginning - Of his becoming a devil; and abode not in the truth - Commencing murderer and liar at the same time. And certainly he was a killer of men (as the Greek word properly signifies) from the beginning of the world: for from the very creation he designed and contrived the ruin of men. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own - For he is the proper parent, and, as it were, creator of it. See the origin not only of lies, but of evil in general!


Suffice it to say that Satan and his demons influence people’s thinking--and not in a good way. Since Bible-believing Christians hold that the devil exists, we prepare ourselves for battle by putting on the “armor of God.” (Eph 6:10-19) (Learn how to get dressed for battle by clicking here.) We are commanded to be discerning: “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try [test] the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world” (1 John 4:1).

Let us apply this principle to dominionists.

The movement is made up of Charismatics and Pentecostals. There is a movement of charismatic Catholics as well. NAR is growing at a rate of 9 million per year. Charismatics hold that the manifestations of the Holy Spirit seen in the first century Christian Church are still available today and can be experienced and practiced and that the Holy Ghost has endued them with supernatural gifts such as prophetic utterance, speaking in tongues, casting out demons, breaking down strongholds, healing, and other "signs and wonders" to include bringing dead people back to life, although no documentation exists to prove this claim.

The “High Priest” of NAR is C. Peter Wagner, former professor of Church Growth at Fuller Theological Seminary School of World Mission. Wagner, born in 1930, is the founder of GlOBal Harvest Ministries and the presiding apostle of the International Coalition of Apostles, which he also founded, and co-founder of World Prayer Center.

There is a hierarchy in NAR that resembles the Roman Catholic Church. Once world dominion is accomplished, those at the top level will have apostolic authority over other ministries. Are you seeing the danger yet? This could mean literally thousands of ministries with so-called apostles and prophets at the helm! Every person will have an apostle or prophet to whom they are accountable.

According to one source the coalition includes “several hundred apostles across the U.S. and about 40 nations, international training centers and prayer warrior communication networks in all 50 states and worldwide.”

Some readers are sitting there with their mouths agape, thinking “This smacks of imperialism!” Bingo!

Sarah Leslie of Discernment Ministries has written on this very subject. In her article “Dominionism and the Rise of Christian Imperialism” She reveals what the Dominionism teaches. Here is an excerpt:

“The Gospel of Salvation is achieved by setting up the ‘Kingdom of God’ as a literal and physical kingdom to be ‘advanced’ on Earth in the present age. Some dominionists liken the New Testament Kingdom to the Old Testament Israel in ways that justify taking up the sword, or other methods of punitive judgment, to war against enemies of their kingdom. Dominionists teach that men can be coerced or compelled to enter the kingdom. They assign to the Church duties and rights that belong Scripturally only to Jesus Christ. This includes the esoteric belief that believers can ‘incarnate’ Christ and function as His body on Earth to establish His kingdom rule. An inordinate emphasis is placed on man’s efforts; the doctrine of the sovereignty of God is diminished.”

Any student of the Bible will understand that the type of thinking described above is highly unbiblical. Where in Scripture does it teach that the sheep, as Jesus refers to His followers, will be given the power to incarnate Christ?

Also mentioned in Sarah Leslie’s article is Pastor Rick Warren. She says Warren “intends to amass the world’s largest volunteer ‘army’ of ‘one billion foot soldiers’ to implement his glOBal P.E.A.C.E. Plan.”

On Sunday, April 17, 2005 Speaking before 30,000 at Angel Stadium in Anaheim, Rick Warren announced his plan:

“The bottom line is that we intend to reinvent mission strategy in the 21st century. As I stated, this will be a new Reformation. The First Reformation returned us to the message of the original church. It was a reformation of doctrine – what the church BELIEVES. This Second Reformation will return us to the mission of the original church. It will be a reformation of PURPOSE – what the church DOES in the world.”


“Our goal will be to enlist one billion foot soldiers for the Kingdom of God, who will permanently change the face of international missions to take on these five ‘glOBal giants’ for which the church can become the ultimate distribution and change agent to overcome Spiritual emptiness, Self-serving Leadership, Poverty, disease and ignorance (or illiteracy).”

Pastor Warren also made these comments:

"Who's the man of peace in any village - or it might be a woman of peace - who has the most respect, they're open and they're influential? They don't have to be a Christian. In fact, they could be a Muslim, but they're open and they're influential and you work with them to attack the five giants. And that's going to bring the second Reformation."

"'I see absolutely zero reason in separating my fellowship from anybody," he said. Noting he has theological differences with many of the diverse denominations that invite him to speak, Warren added, "That doesn't stop me from fellowshipping with them." When he heard of the SBC's withdrawal, he added, "I thought, 'This is silly! Why would we separate ourselves from brothers and sisters in the world?'”

What Warren is purporting is ecumenicism. Actually, we are moving beyond ecumenicism into interspirituality (interfaith spirituality) or interdenominational cooperation. “In the name of peace and unity,” says Ray Yungen, “the world’s religions are more and more joining together. And with that joining together will come a consensus that it is narrow minded and even hateful to say there is only one way to salvation.”

There’s not enough space here to cover interspirituality, so I’ll move on.

Peace and unity has a nice ring to it. But traditional, historic, evangelical Christianity holds that there is only one path to God, one door to enter through. Peter left no doubt when he said, “Salvation is found in no one else” (Acts 4:10). (Also see John 3:16, John 6:66-68, John 14:6, Acts 16:30-31, 1 Tim 2:3-6, 1 John 2:1) The Bible clearly teaches that all paths do not lead to God. Those who take a different path will spend eternity in hell. So the loving thing for a committed Christian to do is to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ with the lost. In fact, Jesus commanded His followers to go out into the world and spread the good news. Those who keep the good news to themselves fail to understand that God gives no second chances. Jesus said, “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity” (Mat. 7:22).

I’ve drifted from my point. Most Christians have no clue that false teachers abound in the Church. And if they’re aware, they’re ignoring it--or they just don’t care! Some may think the Bible teaches that believers must set up a kingdom here on earth to usher in the Second Coming of Christ. But let me assure you, this is extra-biblical teaching.

Christians have got to put up their discernment antenna. We must start prOBing to see what other Christians believe and then ask ourselves, “Is it scriptural?” There is nothing wrong with examining teaching coming from the pulpit! Paul praised the Bereans for checking his teaching against the Word of God. (Acts 17:11) We must scrutinize Bible teachers, evangelists, missionaries, speakers, writers, politicians, entertainers, health practitioners, bloggers, and look into “Christian” businesses to see what they’re really selling. Anyone can use a Christian symbol or quote Bible verses to make themselves or what they’re selling sound Christian because they know that gullible folks buy into it! Is it any wonder God warns us to be on the lookout for the spirit of error that comes from Satan and his demons? Satan was a liar from the beginning which is why believers have to be armed with the sword of the spirit--the Word of God!

It is imperative that Christians guard (tend to carefully) God’s Word. Deuteronomy 11:17-20:

"Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes. And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt write them upon the door posts of thine house, and upon thy gates…”

When his words are written on our hearts we are not so easily taken in by charlatans, false teachers or enticed into a cult.

Paul admonished Timothy to “keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called” (1 Tim 6:20). In other words, “continue in the simplicity of sincere doctrine.”



Knowing the truth is essential to the faith. Yet neo-evangelicals are inept at protecting biblical truth. Biblical truth is not found in so-called Christians who abandon Church doctrine and rely on what God or so-called angels say to them in visions and dreams. Never, never, never abandon the Bible to follow the teachings of these men and women! Run from those who deny the Deity of Jesus Christ. If Jesus Christ is not God, Christianity is a sham.



One last thing. Nowhere in Scripture does it say that we are to treat false teachers with charity and Christian love. In fact we’re taught just the opposite:

“Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds” (2 John 1:9-11).

Explore the New Apostolic Reformation

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http://www.newswithviews.com/West/marsha197.htm

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The most effective heresies are introduced by nice, friendly people, who assure us of their genuine faith, & compliment us for our discernment in recognising their leadership.

Good rat poison tastes nice to the rat, to attract it.

In the UK we have "Christians Together" & "the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity." The local charismatics are members. The local Baptists join in processions with RCs.

We stand on the Scriptures & the Gospel. There can be no compromise, & yet some of our folk have been attending a Baptist church that reports it welcomed the RC Bishop to their pulpit during the "Week of Prayer."

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Agreed. Scripture tells us many will turn to those who will tell them what they want to hear. How better to lead folks astray than to look respectable, call yourself a preacher and then preach soft messages the crowds want to hear.

I knew Rick Warren was out there but I don't know a lot about him so his extreme ecumenical/interfaith beliefs caught me a bit by surprise. There are many professing "conservative" Christians who follow Warren yet this man says he won't separate from anyone that he will even work with Muslims to bring about "the second Reformation"! That's just crazy! :smilie_loco:4

We live in a small town in a very rural area. Our pastor has taken a lot of heat for not participating in all the local and regional events which all or many other different churches are involved in. A couple of the events our pastor used to participate in he stopped because the others voted not to allow our pastor to deliver any more messages during the events. These professing Christian pastors said our pastor spoke too much about Jesus and community events shouldn't be used for evangelizing! :blink:

Rick Warren is very dangerous. He's inherited the title of "America's pastor" from Billy Graham and he seems to relish in this. This man has tens of thousands of followers and others who read his books and are influenced by him.

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A group of Baptist Churches I use to be a part of puts out a paper that I subscribe to. The last one had a sermon in it, this pastor seems to think all churches ought to come together as one.

Seems they be many pastors behind the pulpits of Amerce that believe this way, forget doctrine, just come together. Compromisers.

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That's true Jerry. Our pastor often raises this issue and points out that while there is room for some disagreement we must first make it clear that the fundamentals of the faith CANNOT be compromised and we cannot "agree to disagree" and yet walk together as one if we don't hold to the fundamentals of the faith.

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I suspect that a major cause of such confusion is the religious TV & radio. Our people listen, thinking it is valuable additional teaching, & unless they are very discerning, absorb error.

We can provide 1 hour teaching a week, & cannot compete with what is constantly in the home.

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I suspect that a major cause of such confusion is the religious TV & radio. Our people listen, thinking it is valuable additional teaching, & unless they are very discerning, absorb error.

We can provide 1 hour teaching a week, & cannot compete with what is constantly in the home.


Very true. Our pastor and I spoke of this just last week. The airwaves are filled with false teachers and watered down teachers. Add to this the high number of programs out there which seek to explain the Bible away. The History Channel, among others, is notorious for this. One of the most recent programs I saw along these lines was called "Bible Battles". From the previews it looked to be a good program. However, within a few minutes of beginning it was clear they were going to try and explain away all the miracles, all the aspects of God acting on behalf of Israel. In fact, the program even put forth the theory that the people of the Exodus weren't really the Hebrews but rather a warrior tribe which the Egyptians had tried to turn into farmers but they eventually rebelled (not God freeing them, they revolted. The program was revolting.

Other programs explain God away as being an intelligent extra-terrestrial. An alien spaceship made the Red Sea parting (which prOBably wasn't the Red Sea) using it's thrusters. It was an alien ship hovering above Mount Sinai which the people thought was God as Moses went up and spoke with the aliens and then told everyone it was God.

The aliens dropped down food from their spaceship, providing the manna.

So here we have folks who might not go to church or might have a passing interest or who might attend a watered down church who watch these programs and they are taught God is really a smart alien, all the miracles of the Bible were natural occurances, etc.

By default, if those be true, the Bible is a lie and any who preach the Bible as true is a liar.

Amazing that many people would more readily believe that God was some smart alien than actually God.

The enemy is doing a great jOB of sowing false information and turning folks away from the Bible and true preachers.
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I suspect that a major cause of such confusion is the religious TV & radio. Our people listen, thinking it is valuable additional teaching, & unless they are very discerning, absorb error.

We can provide 1 hour teaching a week, & cannot compete with what is constantly in the home.



So true, I'm privileged to have the elderly widow of the man who was my pastor when I got saved in 1961 in our congregation. Sad to say, from time to time she will mention listening to some of the TV preachers whose names make chills go up my spine.

I know of at least 2 widows of very conservative pastors who seem to be easily misled, both of them have made comments that I know their husband would disagree with 100 % and would have told them so. I know well these things they've come up with come from TV preachers.
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On 5/29/2010 at 7:12 AM, John81 said:

A large number of Christians are unaware that literally truck loads of counterfeit Christians have gained access to pulpits, wormed their way into Church leadership, Christian organizations and are deeply entrenched in the so-called Christian entertainment industry. Call them what you will--false teachers/prophets, liberals/progressives, cultists, misinformed, misled, even looney tunes--the one thing they all have in common is that they have strayed from the truth.

What year did counterfeit Christendom start ?   Opposed to Scripture, opposed to baptizers,  opposed to disciples and followers of Jesus.  

 

Becoming in the first few centuries "world full"  not just "truck loads" of apostate churches, church,  priests and teachings.

Thus why it is so 'easy',  so common,  for people today even in Baptist churches to believe what they have no idea is a false teaching,  false teachings are so imbedded in our lives and our ancestors lives since before 500 A.D. ,  false teachings, false gospel, taught as truth IN churches for about fifteen hundred twenty years already.

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7 hours ago, Martyr_4_FutureJoy said:

What year did counterfeit Christendom start ?   Opposed to Scripture, opposed to baptizers,  opposed to disciples and followers of Jesus.  

 

Becoming in the first few centuries "world full"  not just "truck loads" of apostate churches, church,  priests and teachings.

Thus why it is so 'easy',  so common,  for people today even in Baptist churches to believe what they have no idea is a false teaching,  false teachings are so imbedded in our lives and our ancestors lives since before 500 A.D. ,  false teachings, false gospel, taught as truth IN churches for about fifteen hundred twenty years already.

What year?
Exact year unknown. I agree even the Apostles spoke of heresy and anti-Christs in the churches of God. So it began very quickly.  They had no completed copies of the O.T. and N.T. in the early church. William Penn in his book, NO CROSS, NO CROWN:, (1600s) and A.W. Tozer in various books (1950s and 60s), warned of lethargy  creeping over Christendom and in the churches of America.

Not so common for Faithful to Christ and those close to God's word...
I think because we have our own copies of the Bible it causes difficulty for "damnable heresies" to be introduced to "spirit and truth" Christendom, "we have the mind of Christ". We test our understanding with others; pastors, teachers, brothers and sisters in the Lord who we trust "faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also" and of "of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom,".

Just my thoughts.

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On 8/31/2021 at 9:18 PM, 1Timothy115 said:

What year?

Before 313 a.d. of course.  Whether a more specific year is known or can be found, I don't know yet.

On 8/31/2021 at 9:18 PM, 1Timothy115 said:

So it began very quickly. 

Yes, as noted somewhere here that the Apostles warned their assemblies in the first century that the wolves were circling waiting for the departure of the Apostles and then when the Apostles were gone the worlves would move in to tear the flock apart,  which apparently happened quickly perhaps for most of the assemblies ? 

On 8/31/2021 at 9:18 PM, 1Timothy115 said:

They had no completed copies of the O.T. and N.T. in the early church.

I was happy to read The History of The Baptists htis year, partly at least,  and to see that before the rcc messed things up tremendously the Baptists (not yet called Baptists of course) had already all the Scriptures early on (i.e. the canon)  and continued to  through the centuries, by God's Divine Doing of course ,  

and though they were verily and frequently persecuted often to martyrdom,  they were not overcome entirely.

 

On 8/31/2021 at 9:18 PM, 1Timothy115 said:

"we have the mind of Christ". We test our understanding with others;

 

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