What happens to babies during the Rapture?

[Anon]

I actually never read any teaching on that verse, I came up with that on my own while reading it one day. It seems to be the only explanation for why God would point out how important it is to stay with a lost spouse...for the sake of the children.

I still think its a very good chance that the children would have to grow up in the millenium????? and make their personal choice...I don't necessarily think its a "Free ride" to heaven...but I do think that the saved parents would be a protection for their children until they reach the age of accountability.

I have kind of a hard time thinking that every single kid in the entire world would be mass-taken to heaven at the rapture....anyway say a kid was 5 at the rapture. If God left him on earth, with unsaved parents, he has 7 more years to grow up and choose to accept or reject Christ. Why would God take kids that still have their parents, and still have a chance to get saved?

On the other hand, if a 5 year old had saved parents, he would be left an orphan if God did not take him.

I admit this is using pure human "logic" but it would somewhat fit in with the verse.

[John81]

So as to not de-rail the thread, here's a quick synopsis on the 3 raptures. I didn't include it the first time because I didn't want to de-rail, but I've been asked to provide Scripture so here it is.


Pre-Trib:

I Thess: 4:14-18, "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. "15": For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. "16": For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: "17": Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. "18": Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

I Thess. 1:10, "And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

I think we all agree that the entire church is raptured out before the tribulation begins, so as to avoid the wrath to come.



Mid-Trib:

Matt. 25:1-13, "Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. "2": And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. "3": They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: "4": But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. "5": While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. "6": And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
"7": Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. "8": And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. "9": But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. "10": And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. "11": Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. "12": But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. "13": Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh."

These virgins are not the bride of Christ. They go to meet the bridegroom, not marry Him. They go in to meet the Bridegroom, and take part in the wedding. You'll read about guests and other members of the marriage of the Lamb in Song of Solomon. This is the 144,000, they're the only virgins you'll read about in Revelation, and they're jOB is to go out and evangelize the Gentile (like Paul did). The emphasis in the middle of the tribulation moves solely towards the nation of Israel, and the 144,000 are replaced by Moses and Elijah. Or Ben-hadad and Jerband, or whatever name you want to name the two witnessess.

Rev. 14:1-4, "And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. "2": And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: "3": And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. "4": These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb."

One minute they're on earth, the next minute there's a voice heard from heaven, and then all of a sudden they're redeemed from among men and standing before the throne of God. Sounds like a rapture to me.



Post-Trib

Matt. 24:29-31, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: "30": And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. "31": And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

This one is really clear, how else can you interpret "Immediatly after the tribulation..." to be anything but immediatly after the tribulation?

Rev. 14:14-20, "And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. "15": And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. "16": And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. "17": And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. "18": And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. "19": And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. "20": And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs."

I believe the earth being reaped here is the post trib rapture, followed by Armageddon. There you have it, I'm a pre-tribber, a mid-tribber, and a post-tribber. I guess that means I'm everyone's friend, or everyones enemy!

Thank you for posting this. I've heard these various verses used to support various rapture theories but I've never heard them used to proclaim there will be multiple raptures. Where did you learn this? Or is this something you have come to believe on your own?

[Brother Rick]

Here's a couple of verses on the age of accountability:

Rom. 1:15, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

No law in the heart, no knowledge of sin and righteousness, no transgression.

Ro. 7:9, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

Paul said he had a spirit that was alive, but when the "commandment came" that spirit died. Babies are born with an alive spirit, like Adam and Eve had before the fall. They still have the sin nature within them, but the spirit is alive unto God until the age of accountability.

[John81]

Here's a couple of verses on the age of accountability:

Rom. 1:15, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

No law in the heart, no knowledge of sin and righteousness, no transgression.

Ro. 7:9, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

Paul said he had a spirit that was alive, but when the "commandment came" that spirit died. Babies are born with an alive spirit, like Adam and Eve had before the fall. They still have the sin nature within them, but the spirit is alive unto God until the age of accountability.

Did you read the commentary I posted for Suzy a few posts back; the one where the guy takes John Piper to task?

[Anon]

Here's a couple of verses on the age of accountability:

Rom. 1:15, "Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression."

No law in the heart, no knowledge of sin and righteousness, no transgression.

Ro. 7:9, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

Paul said he had a spirit that was alive, but when the "commandment came" that spirit died. Babies are born with an alive spirit, like Adam and Eve had before the fall. They still have the sin nature within them, but the spirit is alive unto God until the age of accountability.

Why would God say children of two unsaved parents are considered to be "unclean"?

[John81]

I actually never read any teaching on that verse, I came up with that on my own while reading it one day. It seems to be the only explanation for why God would point out how important it is to stay with a lost spouse...for the sake of the children.

I still think its a very good chance that the children would have to grow up in the millenium????? and make their personal choice...I don't necessarily think its a "Free ride" to heaven...but I do think that the saved parents would be a protection for their children until they reach the age of accountability.

I have kind of a hard time thinking that every single kid in the entire world would be mass-taken to heaven at the rapture....anyway say a kid was 5 at the rapture. If God left him on earth, with unsaved parents, he has 7 more years to grow up and choose to accept or reject Christ. Why would God take kids that still have their parents, and still have a chance to get saved?

On the other hand, if a 5 year old had saved parents, he would be left an orphan if God did not take him.

I admit this is using pure human "logic" but it would somewhat fit in with the verse.

Suzy, what is your view of covenant theology? I only ask because your view of the verse you cited seems to be of importance to this and as I'm checking more into this I'm realizing I've read some books that use this verse to support the idea that if a saved person raises their children in a Christian home that child is basically guaranteed to be saved. This is the extention they use to proclaim the Corinthian verse must mean that children with saved parents will automatically go to heaven.

[John81]

Why would God say children of two unsaved parents are considered to be "unclean"?

One view is that since the children are born in sin they are unclean. Without a saved parent to "sanctify" them, the children would be unclean.

[Brother Rick]

Thank you for posting this. I've heard these various verses used to support various rapture theories but I've never heard them used to proclaim there will be multiple raptures. Where did you learn this? Or is this something you have come to believe on your own?

Kind of like you, I heard lots of different teachings on different raptures at different times. People get pretty heated up about it. For the most part I didn't really get it until I really delved into the scriptures on my own. I try not to ignore scriptures from people I disagree with. I believe the Bible is perfect, and that there are no contradictions in it. When something doesn't make sense to me, it's not because there's a contradiction it's because I haven't studied it out enough. Looking at it from that perspective, the only way I was able to reconcile these verses is to subscribe to a three rapture idea.

[Brother Rick]

Did you read the commentary I posted for Suzy a few posts back; the one where the guy takes John Piper to task?

I had a hard time following it to be honest, I've been so rushed today, I'm the only guy at the office! Edited April 20, 2010 by Rick Schworer

[John81]

Kind of like you, I heard lots of different teachings on different raptures at different times. People get pretty heated up about it. For the most part I didn't really get it until I really delved into the scriptures on my own. I try not to ignore scriptures from people I disagree with. I believe the Bible is perfect, and that there are no contradictions in it. When something doesn't make sense to me, it's not because there's a contradiction it's because I haven't studied it out enough. Looking at it from that perspective, the only way I was able to reconcile these verses is to subscribe to a three rapture idea.

Okay. Thank you. No further questions

[John81]

I did, I hate Calvinist trash, it's degrading to God.

The article was written by a pastor (I think) who was knocking Piper (who is a Baptist Calvinist). From the way the article is written, the author may believe in covenant theology. In other words, the commentary itself is anti-Calvinist.

[Brother Rick]

Suzy, what is your view of covenant theology? I only ask because your view of the verse you cited seems to be of importance to this and as I'm checking more into this I'm realizing I've read some books that use this verse to support the idea that if a saved person raises their children in a Christian home that child is basically guaranteed to be saved. This is the extention they use to proclaim the Corinthian verse must mean that children with saved parents will automatically go to heaven.

I don't believe in covenant theology. Everyone is accountible to God for the decision he makes. I don't see anything anywhere in Scripture that states otherwise.

[Brother Rick]

The article was written by a pastor (I think) who was knocking Piper (who is a Baptist Calvinist). From the way the article is written, the author may believe in covenant theology. In other words, the commentary itself is anti-Calvinist.

I know, I misunderstood the whole thing, I've been very scatterbrained today and spoke too soon when I said that. Which.. is why I edited it out but you replied before I could! Doh!!

[Brother Rick]

Why would God say children of two unsaved parents are considered to be "unclean"?

I don't believe that is talking about the condition of the child's soul. If it was, it would go contrary to the rest of Scripture that teaches that a person is accountible for his own actions before God when it comes to going to Heaven or Hell.

However, nations are cursed for the sins of their ancestors, but they are not refused the gospel. They're just in a bad spot starting out, unlike Americans who start in a great place. I think that is what this verse is referrring to. My little girl Kiera, who just turned 4, has memorized about 20 Bible verses. She's starting off a lot better in life, praise God, than a child born to a lost set of parents. Kiera's sould isn't holy and she won't go to heaven because of me, but she is seperated unto God from the world and the environment that she lives in is holy. That's my best shot on reconciling that with the rest of Scripture.

[Psalms18_28]

Why would God say children of two unsaved parents are considered to be "unclean"?

I assume it is how they raised them so when they do reach accountability, they reject God. My husband did. His parents did not and still do not believe in God and they raised their children that way. He was an atheist for a long time since he was a teen. It was until his late 30's but some people never never change. But before accountability, you can get your children to believe anything if you tell them to believe it. Even atheist's children. If you tell them there is a boogey man, they believe it. If you tell them about Jesus, they have no prOBlem believing in him as well. Edited April 20, 2010 by Psalms18_28