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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         33
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

The Benefits of Government-run Healthcare


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Its just annoying when people assume, since I factually realize healthcare is not a God-given right, that I have no compassion nor do I help people....

It IS possible to realize my rights but at the same time do what I personally can to help others.

That's just like...I don't think the government should buy people free houses...but do I feel sorry for someone who doesn't have a house? Yeah. Would I try to help someone who was about to lose their house? Yeah, if I could.... do I still think the government should buy them a house? NO.


Liberalism has permeated so much in America that unless one speaks the appropriate liberal dogma on certain topics they are considered to be "harsh, mean-spirited, uncaring". That's why GW Bush came up with the idea of "compassionate conservatism". It was a defensive term attempting to deflect attacks. Of course, with the liberal dominated establishment it didn't work; but that's another story.

Indeed Suzy, I care about the plight of the poor and needy. We donate to help some of these folks. However, there is no governmental (nor even Scriptural) "right" to governmental supply of food, medical care, housing, etc.

As you may know, many of the prOBlems we currently face today with regards to the poor and needy stem right back to government interference (in areas where they have no constitutional authority) which have limited available housing and the ability of individuals and charities to help and care for the needy. More government is not the answer. Reagan had it right when he said government isn't the answer, it's the prOBlem.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Here's the thing with medical care...

In the old days the doctor came to your house...he did what he could for you...and you either lived or died. The family paid the doctor in whatever way they agreed. If they could not afford it, sometimes they'd barter or a family member would pay. Some people knew they could not afford a doctor so they just didn't call him. OR the doctor could choose to perform some charity work.

Now people have found amazing ways to keep people alive longer...and its great...but somehow now everybody has lost that "I'll pay the doc and have him come help you" and now says "If the technology is there, I have the RIGHT to have it, and I don't care who pays for it but it won't be me." Who is to say that just because the technology is there means we HAVE to have it???

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Here's the thing with medical care...

In the old days the doctor came to your house...he did what he could for you...and you either lived or died. The family paid the doctor in whatever way they agreed. If they could not afford it, sometimes they'd barter or a family member would pay. Some people knew they could not afford a doctor so they just didn't call him. OR the doctor could choose to perform some charity work.

Now people have found amazing ways to keep people alive longer...and its great...but somehow now everybody has lost that "I'll pay the doc and have him come help you" and now says "If the technology is there, I have the RIGHT to have it, and I don't care who pays for it but it won't be me." Who is to say that just because the technology is there means we HAVE to have it???


I fully agree. Remember some years ago the government started a program to provide free computers to "minorities" because it was their "right" not to be deprived of something all us rich white folks have:icon_rolleyes:

The masses have bought into the idea that if the government provides it then it's "free". Many have no real concept of the fact that other people paying taxes is where the government money comes from (that and the government going further into debt so other peoples children and grandchildren can be burdened with providing their "free" stuff). Those who do understand that others are paying don't care, many actually believe it's their duty to provide them with "free" stuff.

Sure, it would be nice if everyone could have excellent health care. However, the fact is that all aspects of health care cost money and that money has to come from somewhere.
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I posted what I know His Word say's on this topic. In return I will stand on His Word yet I have learned when it come's down to families and their live's many Christian's are going to make the chioce to live in what I call "the shark world." Everyone for themselves! If you can purchase the care it's your's! I do not agree with socialized medicine. I want all of OBama's family and every Senator along with family of course, to be required to be in this Medical Program recieving the exact same care as EVERYONE ELSE!! My father would say," it's alway's best when everyone has alittle skin in the game." Actually, none of you that have posted really grasp what the reprucussuion's will be if this medical bill passes. The well off will recieve their medical care elsewhere! Already "many from the "shark world" have plan's for surgery, maintance (meaning life-systaining) treatment's to be given on yacht's in international waters. All legal!! You must be able to afford the care of course! The other option is to move to another country. I already know this plan so well I can tell you what country based on your prOBlem organ. I will not comment on this topic anymore. I'm finished! When I hear Christian men saying that it is up for us to each take care of their own family...period! I have alway's believed in not recieving special treatment because the world I descend you would label "privileged". After these post, if this bill passes and my life-systaining treatment's are threatened, I will allow all help my birth-right provide's. We're basically going to a health system based on who can pay. Medical treatment not my "right" but a "privilege" then I'll go with that "privilege." This is how thing's have been for years in most countiries with socialized medicine. People don't feel all fuzzy and thankful for the medical care that is past out...the one's ie. from Germany -only one example- that need care but realize they won't make it thru the waiting list etc (there are a multitude of reason's) have chosen to come here for treatment. Many have built home's for Holiday when it is a long term medical treatment. Where will you build your Holiday home to recieve medical treatment? I would remove myself from life-sustaining treatment on public T.V as a Documentary on OBama's Medical Plan before I would ever inable this New Medical Plan to deny me care. A gentlemen speaking of people being soildier's for Christ just recently stated, if your not in the battle their will be no blood shed in your church and hence he said then he would be concerned about the walk of those men in that church. This is where I am on Medical Care. If I see no wound's or blood shed your not a soilder that stand's for what being in His family and loving in His Spirit with His Love, one who does His will. Mark it up now, are you wheat or tares? They all look alike and sway in the wind together and turn to the Son for warmth and care together until He threshes for fruit and the wheat will bare wheat and the tares nothing! Better to know what you are now then wait to find out then! Medical treatment is only a "Luxury" when we make it avaliable to ONLY the well to do. I don't play by "who has the the most green rectangle's' recieves medical care." Only when we play this game does it becaome a "Luxury." I have 'unalienable right's' I was given BY THE LORD!! Not by any man and I belong to the LORD not the highest bidder! These are food, shelter, right to defend life and property, medical care avaliable and recognized because our God allowed them to be revealed to us by His given talent's, to own the KJ BIble without fear, Steet Peaching to the KKK- all fool's still have the right to share their uneduated opinion's- without fear of reprecussion's . Called Free Speech! We even have the right to OBey the law or not understanding their are consequence's to our action's. I even stand on the right of someone wanting to perform a crime driving all the way to Texas to do so!!:lol: You may so strongly disagree with this post your mad and you have the right to stomp around and verbally get those feelings off your chest. I also have the right to reply with :bleh: I said my peace now say your's. Whatever happen's...I'm on the LORD"S side and I will Trust in His way's only because sadly I've learned who shot's their own first many time's...May the LORD help us!!!:icon_pray::icon_pray::icon_pray::icon_pray::icon_pray::icon_pray::icon_pray: In Christ, His by Grace

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Medical treatment is only a "Luxury" when we make it avaliable to ONLY the well to do. I don't play by "who has the the most green rectangle's' recieves medical care." Only when we play this game does it becaome a "Luxury." I have 'unalienable right's' I was given BY THE LORD!! Not by any man and I belong to the LORD not the highest bidder! These are food, shelter, right to defend life and property, medical care avaliable and recognized because our God allowed them to be revealed to us by His given talent's, to own the KJ BIble without fear, Steet Peaching to the KKK- all fool's still have the right to share their uneduated opinion's- without fear of reprecussion's.


Just wondering where you get the idea that medical care is a "unalienable right" given by the Lord? You are not going to find that in the bible. You will find lazarus outside the rich mans gate full of sores, but not much in the way of health care as a right. Biblically a believer has relatively few God given unalienable rights in this life, those that we do have are granted only because of our relationship with Christ and they are spiritual rights such as access to the father.
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Healthcare is not a right promised in Scripture. We are promised that as Believers we will suffer persecution and we are told that all will suffer from the effects of the curse; including sickness and death.

It would be nice if todays Christians were filled with the love of Christ to the point where they cared for one another as we see in the early church. However, even then we must recognize that nothing comes for free and not all medical means would be affordable at all times and in all places.

Our ultimate reliance must be upon the Lord. We are to take everything to the Lord in prayer. Our God, as Scripture declares, is able to provide for us far beyond what we are even capable of thinking or asking. If it's the Lord's will He can provide anyone with the resources to receive any kind of medical care; he can send any sickness He wishes into remission or heal it outright or he can strengthen us for the bout. Or, for reasons we may not be able to know, His will may be for us to go through something and even to die of whatever it is we may be afflicted with.

This life is but a temporary blip in eternity. Death is graduation to heaven where we may ever be with the Lord. As Paul tells us in the New Testament, none of the things we suffer in this life even compare to the greatness of what Christ has in store for us in heaven.

Yes, it's terrible to see others suffer, it can be so difficult on many levels when we ourselves suffer illness, but these occur for a reason. We can trust God that all things will work out for good; we can trust God that He will not put anything upon us that we can't handle. We can trust that if our life comes to an end that we will be with Christ.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Health insurance is NOT the same thing. You are voluntarily paying into a pot where everyone else is voluntarily paying into it. Then the insurance voluntarily pays for your care, as well as you often pay part out of your own pocket. It is self-responsible.

Government health care takes involuntary taxes out of others pockets and pays for people's health care...and if it becomes socialized the gov't also gains the right to tell everyone what to eat, what not to eat, what to do, where to go, etc...health-wise.

I will say in India they have inexpensive health care and you walk in (no appointments) and you pay out of pocket reasonable prices. Its a pretty good thing, I think.

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The rich man should have fed Lazarus but nowhere in the Bible is it shown he has the responsibility to pay for a doctor. Paul did not pay for Timothy to get a doctor for his stomach, he just suggested wine.

By the way Jerrynumbers...my sister has very little insurance right now and she just found out her daughter needs some expensive specialist visits for her legs and feet which are having some orthopedic prOBlems. She prOBably needs pricey inserts for her shoes. We cannot afford to help her, as we are already paying quite a bit for medicine for my son with chronic urticaria. Can I give her your number? :-)

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Are we to do as the rich man, ignored the needs of Lazarus who was sick?


Individual charity should not be confused with government "charity". One is a good and honorable thing, the other takes money out of the hands of individuals whether they like it or not, wastes much of the money in bureaucracy, and deposits much of the rest in the pockets of the friends and supporters of government officials who control the purse strings. The government has no business in health care. If they get involved it will increase government power, government corruption, and make health care political.
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There are places to buy inserts that are not so pricy, my wife has done it, for we could not afford the ones her doctor sold, in fact her doctor told her about them. Saved many dollars. Try Walmart, Fred's, and a Dollar Store. They work great, and gave her much needed relief.

So you disagree with Luke 10:33-37, it even stresses the one thing than has been brought out in this topic, he had compassion, which the rich man did not.

But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him.

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I'm getting upset with funding these days. I keep hearing more and more school for the deaf are about to close down and they want to push them to mainstream and put deaf people in Special Education (which is the enviroment I grew up in from preschool to 12th) and perhap eliminate Sign Language for good. They prOBably want national Healthcare to cover alot of Cochlear implants so deaf people would no longer be culturally deaf (and not everyone is qualify for Cochlear implant so this really means it will be harder for them to find friends or support who know Sign Languages)

These Cochlear implant surgery is around $70,000 - $100,000 plus mapping (audiologists)

Healthcare would just push other gov't funding back. Like schools.

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  • 11 years later...
  • Members

How come no one replied or posted what Scripture says for the assembly of believers to do/ how to live ? 

Admittedly, I skimmed thru the thread,  and other threads likewise ,  and may have missed a true answer posted.

Instead, without even trying to find the wrong answers, they keep popping up in so many places(threads) ,  I see many many posts, in this thread and others,  posting - saying - things the world (carnal, apart from Jesus) does,  even perhaps 'churches' do,  things that do not include what Scripture says to do nor how to live !?

Is this because there is so little instruction and so few examples in the groups or churches people are in,  they just do not even have any idea what is right any more ? ! 

 

Just one example for now:

On 2/8/2010 at 7:32 PM, JerryNumbers said:

Are we to do as the rich man, ignored the needs of Lazarus who was sick?

What group in the Bible had ALL of their needs met,  and how ? 

(This is noted possibly in over 40 places in Scripture,  although it might only be 2, 3, or 4 places;   I really really should know without having to go and check ,  but I never thought the famine would be so devastating and far reaching and widespread and pervasive;  which really really is not an excuse at all , no,  I should have diligently at least aimed at remembering, probably,  but I really really believed and thought not only how good this all is, but that it was great news and all of God's people everywhere I went would already have this knowledge in their portfolio/ repertoire / standard lessons for everyone ....  )

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=================================

=================probably will be merged =================

On 2/5/2010 at 4:27 PM, Kitagrl said:

...It IS possible to realize my rights but at the same time do what I personally can to help others.
That's just like...I don't think the government should buy people free houses...but do I feel sorry for someone who doesn't have a house? Yeah. Would I try to help someone who was about to lose their house? Yeah, if I could.... do I still think the government should buy them a house? NO.

Did you approve of the Creator's Way to provide a place for every family ?  (Kitagrl may be gone, so anyone else? Do you or did you approve of the Creator's Way to provide a place for every family ? )

On 2/5/2010 at 4:37 PM, John81 said:

..However, there is no governmental (nor even Scriptural) "right" to governmental supply of food, medical care, housing, etc.
.... More government is not the answer. Reagan had it right when he said government isn't the answer, it's the prOBlem.

 

Was the government the problem in Egypt ?  In Italy ?  In Germany ?  In Russia ?  In Finland ?  (hint: this last one, Finland,  last I heard in the last few years, has solved (carnally, without trust in God)  their homeless problem - everyone gets enough money every month , or otherwise is provided,  a place to stay and 'all' their needs met) 

"IF MY PEOPLE " ...

Anyone remember these words?  This Scripture In Context ?   The Creator's Promise Conditioned on "IF MY PEOPLE" ? 

Oh, my... "Conditioned"?!   The Creator Set Conditions ?   

.......

...

.

yep

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On 9/10/2021 at 12:02 AM, Martyr_4_FutureJoy said:

=================================

=================probably will be merged =================

Did you approve of the Creator's Way to provide a place for every family ?  (Kitagrl may be gone, so anyone else? Do you or did you approve of the Creator's Way to provide a place for every family ? )

Was the government the problem in Egypt ?  In Italy ?  In Germany ?  In Russia ?  In Finland ?  (hint: this last one, Finland,  last I heard in the last few years, has solved (carnally, without trust in God)  their homeless problem - everyone gets enough money every month , or otherwise is provided,  a place to stay and 'all' their needs met) 

"IF MY PEOPLE " ...

Anyone remember these words?  This Scripture In Context ?   The Creator's Promise Conditioned on "IF MY PEOPLE" ? 

Oh, my... "Conditioned"?!   The Creator Set Conditions ?   

.......

...

.

yep

Jeff, just skimming your answers here you TRULY need to clarify what you're trying to convey! It's too hard to try to follow your many "rabbit trails" to try and figure out what you're trying to get at! Pick a target and try to hit it, PLEASE!

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    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 0 replies
    • Razor

      “Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform (or pause and reflect).”
      ― Mark Twain
      · 1 reply
    • Razor

      Psalms 139 Psalm 139:9-10
      9. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; 10. even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy righthand shall hold me. 
       
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West  »  Pastor Scott Markle

      Advanced revelation, then...prophecy IS advanced revelation in the context of the apostles.
      I really do not know where you are going with this. The Bible itself has revelations and prophecies and not all revelations are prophecies.
      Paul had things revealed to him that were hid and unknown that the Gentiles would be fellow heirs.
      How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Eph 3:3-9
      And I do not mean this as a Hyper-dispensationalist would, for there were people in Christ before Paul (Rom. 16:7). This is not prophecy for there are none concerning the Church age in the O.T..
      Israel rejected the New Wine (Jesus Christ) and said the Old Wine (law) was better, had they tasted the New Wine there would be no church age or mystery as spoken above. to be revealed.
      It was a revealed mystery. Sure there are things concerning the Gentiles after the this age. And we can now see types in the Old Testament (Boaz and Ruth) concerning a Gentile bride, but this is hindsight.
      Peter could have had a ham sandwich in Acts 2, but he did not know it till later, by revelation. But this has nothing to do with 1John 2;23 and those 10 added words in italics. Where did they get them? Did the violate Pro. 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Where did they get this advance revelation? Was it from man, God or the devil?
        I just read your comment and you bypassed what I wrote concerning book arrangement, chapters being added and verse numberings and such. There is no scripture support for these either, should we reject these?
      Happy New Year
      · 0 replies
    • Bro. West

      Seeing it is Christ----mas time and I was answering question on Luke 2:33 concerning Jesus, Mary and Joseph . I thought it would be fitting to display a poem i wrote concerning the matter.
      SCRIPTURAL MARY

      I WALK NOT ON WATER NOR CHANGE IT TO WINE
      SO HEARKEN O’ SINNER TO THIS STORY OF MINE
      I, AM A DAUGHTER OF ABRAHAM SINNER BY BIRTH
      A HAND MAID OF LOW ESTATE USED HERE ON EARTH
      MY HAIR IS NOT GENTILE BLOND, I HAVE NOT EYES OF BLUE
      A MOTHER OF MANY CHILDREN A DAUGHTER OF A JEW
      FOR JOSEPH MY HUSBAND DID HONOUR OUR BED
      TO FATHER OUR CHILDREN WHO NOW ARE ALL DEAD
      BUT I SPEAK NOT OF THESE WHO I LOVED SO WELL
      BUT OF THE FIRST BORN WHICH SAVED ME FROM HELL
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               2
      WHEN I WAS A VIRGIN UNKNOWN BY MAN
      THE ANGEL OF GOD SPOKE OF GOD’S PLAN
      FOR I HAD BEEN CHOSEN A FAVOUR VESSEL OF CLAY
      TO BARE THE SON OF THE HIGHEST BY AN UNUSUAL WAY
      FOR THE SCRIPTURE FORETOLD OF WHAT WAS TO BE
      SO MY WOMB GOD FILLED WHEN HE OVER SHADOW ME
      BUT THE LAW OF MOSES DID DEMAND MY LIFE
      WOULD JOSEPH MY BETROTHED MAKE ME HIS WIFE
      I THOUGHT ON THESE THINGS WITH SO NEEDLESS FEARS
      BUT A DREAM HE RECEIVED ENDED ALL FEARS
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                              3
      THEN MY SOUL DID REJOICE IN GOD MY SAVIOR
      HE SCATTERED THE PROUD AND BLESS ME WITH FAVOR
      O’ THE RICH ARE EMPTY, THE HUNGRY HAVE GOOD THINGS
      FOR THE THRONE OF DAVID WOULD HAVE JESUS THE KING
      BUT BEFORE I DELIVERED THE MAN CHILD OF OLD
      CAESAR WITH TAXES DEMANDED OUR GOLD
      TO THE CITY OF DAVID JOSEPH AND I WENT
      ON A BEAST OF BURDEN OUR STRENGTH NEAR SPEND
      NO ROOM AT An INN, BUT A STABLE WAS FOUND
      WITH STRAW AND DUNG LAID ON THE GROUND
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
                                                  4
      MY MATRIX WAS OPEN IN A PLACE SO PROFANE
      FROM THE GLORY OF GLORIES TO A BEGGAR’S DOMAIN
      SO WE WRAPPED THE CHILD GIVEN TO THE HEATHEN A STRANGER
      NO REPUTATION IS SOUGHT TO BE BORN IN A MANGER
      HIS STAR WAS ABOVE US THE HOST OF HEAVEN DID SING
      FOR SHEPHERDS AND WISE MEN WORSHIP ONLY THE KING
      BUT HEROD THAT DEVIL SOUGHT FOR HIS SOUL
      AND MURDER RACHEL’S CHILDREN UNDER TWO YEARS OLD
      BUT JOSEPH MY HUSBAND WAS WARNED IN A DREAM
      SO WE FLED INTO EGYPT BECAUSE OF HIS SCHEME
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY SO TRUST ME NOT
                                               5
      SO THE GIVER OF LIFE, THE ROCK OF ALL AGES
      GREW UP TO FULFILL THE HOLY PAGES
      HE PREACH WITH AUTHORITY LIKE NONE BEFORE
      PLEASE TRUST HIS WORDS AND NOT THE GREAT WHORE
      HER BLACK ROBE PRIEST FILL THEIR LIPS WITH MY NAME
      WITH BLASPHEMOUS PRAISE, DAMMATION AND SHAME
      THERE ARE NO NAIL PRINTS IN MY HANDS, MY BODY DID NOT ARISE
      NOR, AM A DEMON OF FATIMA FLOATING IN THE SKY
      THERE IS NO DEITY IN MY VEINS FOR ADAM CAME FROM SOD
      FOR I, AM, MOTHER OF THE SON OF MAN NOT THE MOTHER OF GOD
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, SO TRUST ME NOT
      6
      FOR MY SOUL WAS PURCHASED BY GOD UPON THE CROSS
      FOR MY SINS HE DID SUFFER AN UNMEASURABLE COST
      I WILL NOT STEAL HIS GLORY WHO ROSE FROM THE DEAD
      ENDURING SPIT AND THORNS PLACED ON HIS HEAD
      YET, IF YOU WISH TO HONOR ME THEN GIVE ME NONE AT ALL
      BUT TRUST THE LAMB WHO STOOL IN PILATE’S HALL
      CALL NOT ON THIS REDEEMED WOMAN IN YOUR TIME OF FEAR
      FOR I WILL NOT GIVE ANSWER NEITHER WILL I HEAR
      AND WHEN THE BOOKS ARE OPEN AT THE GREAT WHITE THRONE
      I AMEN YOUR DAMNATION THAT TRUST NOT HIM ALONE
      MY FLESH SAW CORRUPTION MY BONES THEY DID ROT
      MY PAPS ARE NOT HOLY, O’ SINNER TRUST ME NOT

                       WRITTEN BY BRO. WEST
       
      · 0 replies
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