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    • By Jim_Alaska in Jim_Alaska's Sermons & Devotionals
         14
      Closed Communion
      James Foley
       
      I Corinthians 11:17-34: "Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's Supper. For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken. What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not. For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do show the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. Wherefore, my brethren, when ye come together to eat, tarry one for another. And if any man hunger, let him eat at home; that ye come not together unto condemnation. And the rest will I set in order when I come."

      INTRODUCTION

      Historic Baptists, true Baptists, have believed in and still believe in closed communion. Baptists impose upon themselves the same restrictions that they impose on others concerning the Lord’s Supper. Baptists have always insisted that it is the Lord’s Table, not theirs; and He alone has the right to say who shall sit at His table. No amount of so called brotherly love, or ecumenical spirit, should cause us to invite to His table those who have not complied with the requirements laid down plainly in His inspired Word. With respect to Bible doctrines we must always use the scripture as our guide and practice. For Baptists, two of the most important doctrines are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper. These are the only two doctrines we recognize as Church Ordinances. The Bible is very clear in teaching how these doctrines are to be practiced and by whom.

      We only have two ordinances that we must never compromise or we risk our very existence, they are Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.

      The moment we deviate from the precise method God has prescribed we have started down the slippery slope of error. True Baptists have held fast to the original doctrine of The Lord’s Supper from the time of Christ and the Apostles.

      Unfortunately, in this day of what the Bible describes as the age of luke warmness, Baptists are becoming careless in regard to strictly following the pattern laid out for us in Scripture. Many of our Bible colleges are graduating otherwise sincere, Godly and dedicated pastors and teachers who have not been taught the very strict, biblical requirements that surround the Lord’s Supper. Any Bible college that neglects to teach its students the differences surrounding Closed Communion, Close Communion and Open Communion is not simply short changing its students; it is also not equipping their students to carry on sound Bible traditions. The result is men of God and churches that fall into error. And as we will see, this is serious error.

      Should we as Baptists ignore the restrictions made by our Lord and Master? NO! When we hold to the restrictions placed upon the Lord’s Supper by our Master, we are defending the "faith which was once delivered to the saints" Jude 3.

      The Lord’s Supper is rigidly restricted and I will show this in the following facts:

      IT IS RESTRICTED AS TO PLACE

      A. I Corinthians 11:18 says, "When ye come together in the church." This does not mean the church building; they had none. In other words, when the church assembles. The supper is to be observed by the church, in church capacity. Again this does not mean the church house. Ekklesia, the Greek word for church, means assembly. "When ye come together in the church," is when the church assembles.

      B. When we say church we mean an assembly of properly baptized believers. Acts 2:41-42: "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers."

      The church is made up of saved people who are baptized by immersion. In the Bible, belief precedes baptism. That’s the Bible way.

      Acts 8:12-13, "But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done."

      When we say properly baptized, we mean immersed. No unbeliever should take the Lord’s supper, and no non-immersed believer should take the supper. Those who are sprinkled are not baptized and cannot receive the supper. The Greek word for baptize is baptizo, and it always means to immerse.

      "In every case where communion is referred to, or where it may possibly have been administered, the believers had been baptized Acts 2:42; 8:12; 8:38; 10:47; 6:14-15; 18:8; 20:7. Baptism comes before communion, just as repentance and faith precede baptism".

      C. The Lord’s Supper is for baptized believers in church capacity: "When ye come together in the church," again not a building, but the assembly of the properly baptized believers.

      D. The fact that the Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, to be observed in church capacity, is pointed out by the fact that it is for those who have been immersed and added to the fellowship of the church.

      E. The Lord’s Supper is never spoken of in connection with individuals. When it is referred to, it is only referred to in reference to baptized believers in local church capacity I Cor. 11:20-26).

      I want to quote Dr. W.W. Hamilton,

      "The individual administration of the ordinance has no Bible warrant and is a relic of Romanism. The Lord’s Supper is a church ordinance, and anything which goes beyond or comes short of this fails for want of scriptural example or command".

      “The practice of taking a little communion kit to hospitals, nursing homes, etc. is unscriptural and does not follow the scriptural example.”

      IT IS RESTRICTED TO A UNITED CHURCH

      A. The Bible in I Cor. 11:18 is very strong in condemning divisions around the Lord’s table. For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.
      19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.
      20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

      There were no less than four divisions in the Corinthian church.
      I Cor. 1:12: "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ."

      Because of these divisions, it was impossible for them to scripturally eat the Lord’s Supper. Division in the local church is reason to hold off observing the Lord’s Supper. But there are also other reasons to forego taking the Lord’s Supper. If there is gross sin in the membership we do not take it. Here is scriptural evidence for this: 1Co 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our Passover is sacrificed for us:
      8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth. 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
      10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

      B. At this point, I want to ask these questions: Are there not doctrinal divisions among the many denominations? Is it not our doctrinal differences that cause us to be separate religious bodies?

      IT IS RESTRICTED BY DOCTRINE

      A. Those in the early church at Jerusalem who partook "continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine" Acts 2:42. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

      B. Those that do not hold to apostolic truth are not to partake. This means there is to be discipline in the local body. How can you discipline those who do not belong to the local body? You can’t. The clear command of scripture is to withdraw fellowship from those who are not doctrinally sound.

      II Thes 3:6: "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us."
      Rom. 16:17: "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them."
      To commune together means to have the same doctrine.
      II Thes. 2:15: "Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle."
      II John 10-11: "If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds."

      C. Some Baptists in our day have watered down this doctrine by practicing what they call “Close Communion.” By this they mean that they believe that members of another Baptist church may take communion with us because they are of the same beliefs. Once again, this is unscriptural.

      The welcome to the Lord's Table should not be extended beyond the discipline of the local church. When we take the Lord’s Supper there is supposed to be no gross sin among us and no divisions among us. We have no idea of the spiritual condition of another church’s members. If there is sin or division in the case of this other church’s members, we have no way of knowing it. We cannot discipline them because they are not members of our church. This is why we practice “Closed” communion, meaning it is restricted solely to our church membership. 
      So then, in closing I would like to reiterate the three different ideas concerning the Lord’s Supper and who is to take it. 
      Closed Communion = Only members of a single local church. 
      Close Communion = Members of like faith and order may partake. 
      Open Communion = If you claim to be a Christian, or simply attending the service, you may partake. 
      It is no small thing to attempt to change that which was implemented by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. 
      Mt. 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. 
      Many of our Baptist churches have a real need to consider the gravity of the act of observing The Lord’s Supper. It is not a light thing that is to be taken casually or without regard to the spiritual condition of ourselves or our church.
      1Co. 11:27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

       28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.

       29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.

       30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

The Benefits of Government-run Healthcare


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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I want to ask a tough question, not just of you, but every Christian that reads this.

If we saw someone in need of health care, no matter the reason, perhaps they wasted away all of their money and or they had no money, but at the moment they have no the money for health care, would we turn our back on them and or help them?

Seems most people who talk about health care not being a right, do not want money to come from them in the form of taxes to help someone get health care, no matter the reason they do not have health insurance.

On this issue, those of the world see Christians as being hard hearted towards those in need of health care, and do not want none of their money to go towards helping them get health care.

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Here's the thing...of COURSE we should help anyone we can help. But the way things are now, as someone mentioned earlier, the government is taking away our money to help our families to pay for people who smoke, drink, have AIDS, and live on welfare.

The health care system is messed up, no way around that, and socialized meds aren't going to help it.

My point is health care is NOT A RIGHT. It is a PRIVILEGE. When you can show me in God's word that I have the RIGHT to health care then I will change my mind.

That does not make me uncompassionate or unloving and it does not mean I do not sacrifice my money for others...(as a matter of fact this week our church will be buying groceries for one of our church families in need) but it does mean that my belief is that health care is not a fundamental human right and I'm tired of people treating it as such.

NOBody appreciates health care because they think they are entititled to it. We ought to appreciate what health care we have as a gift from God. That way, if the doctors ever say "We are sorry, there is nothing else we can do" we won't be so angry and bitter, because we know that God has done for us what He wills, and its time to go.

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  • Advanced Member

To answer Jerry's, "If we saw someone in need of health care, no matter the reason, perhaps they wasted away all of their money and or they had no money, but at the moment they have no the money for health care, would we turn our back on them and or help them?"

The honest answer of each and everyone of us is that 99% of the time (unless they are immediate family) no, we would not help them with their health care costs. Each and every day we all choose to not pay other people's health related costs, even though we do have the means to help. Every person we know has health care related

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Here's the thing...of COURSE we should help anyone we can help. But the way things are now, as someone mentioned earlier, the government is taking away our money to help our families to pay for people who smoke, drink, have AIDS, and live on welfare.

The health care system is messed up, no way around that, and socialized meds aren't going to help it.

My point is health care is NOT A RIGHT. It is a PRIVILEGE. When you can show me in God's word that I have the RIGHT to health care then I will change my mind.

That does not make me uncompassionate or unloving and it does not mean I do not sacrifice my money for others...(as a matter of fact this week our church will be buying groceries for one of our church families in need) but it does mean that my belief is that health care is not a fundamental human right and I'm tired of people treating it as such.

NOBody appreciates health care because they think they are entititled to it. We ought to appreciate what health care we have as a gift from God. That way, if the doctors ever say "We are sorry, there is nothing else we can do" we won't be so angry and bitter, because we know that God has done for us what He wills, and its time to go.


People with AIDs and welfare do need help. Not all AIDs is spread by sex. some kids were born from parents with AIDs, and other contacted it from blood contact. And they are too weak to get jOBs. It is not right to forbid them from healthcare. They need help so they won't feel miserable. And some women are on welfare because the father left them or they made mistake or some women leave becasue the father is an abuser (like my grandma....)

Now I do think those who have a bad habits should pay everytime they go in to see a doctor after he warn them to stop because it is affecting their health.
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  • Advanced Member

A person's health care expenses are their own responsibility to pay (and the dependents they are responsible for). They are not the responsibility of other people. There should be no law mandating that one person (or group of persons) must pay for the health care bills of another. Further, there should be no group of self-righteous judges (in the church or out) that tries to guilt or brow-beat another into assuming those other person's expenses.

I take care of my responsibility to pay for me and my family's health care expenses by working. I choose to work at an employer who offers health care insurance as a portion of my compensation and benefits package, which only pays a portion. The remaining portion I pay for out of my pay check; either through direct payment, or by pre-tax HSA or FSA accounts I have. I am free (and should be) to decline health care insurance coverage and therefore would make the choice to pay 100% of those expenses out of my pay check or go without health care (even life saving treatment).

There are those who make a choice to be self-employeed. When they make that choice, they know they are choosing to make provision to pay for their health care expenses in a manner consistent with that choice (out of pocket, collaborative group chamber insurance, etc.) or go without health care.

Still others may have to do what my father had to do, work a full-time jOB with health care insurance, and then work one or two additional side jOBs to cover any expenses not covered by his main insurance carrier. Yes, that meant my father worked three jOBs to pay the hundreds of thousands of dollars in health care expenses that his insurance did not cover for my terminally ill sister. I never heard him complain about having to work those three jOBs. His only heart break was that in the end, medicine could not save his daughter even though she did get the best available at the time. Lesson learned, there are just some things even man can not fix.....doctors are not God.

For those who have no means to pay due to disability or catastrophic injury, etc.; they may choose to go without treatment or they may find a health care provider who is willing to provide services at a reduced rate or under a charitable cause, etc. Their family are responsible. If they have no family, then perhaps their Church would be able to help out. But it is certainly not my responsibility (through my tax supported government) to be mandated to take care of them. If a person chooses to (which we have done on several occasions) then that is a wonderful thing and demonstrates the love one person can have for another.

Is it heart rending to see people sick with no means to get the care they need, absolutely. My heart is moved like many others to cry for, pray for and give to persons in that circumstance. But it should not be mandated nor considered a right guaranteed free of charge to every citizen by the government. If it were, then a large incentive for the less motivated to work their tails off in order to meet their responsibilities would be removed. It would send the wrong message about basic self-responsibility.

There is no Scriptural mandate to provide everyone with health care that I can find in the Bible. The only thing that I can even think of that comes close to a directive is where the NT teaches that the Church is to take care of the fatherless and widows indeed. Would I do what Bill and Melissa Gates are doing (giving $10 billion dollars for vaccines around the world) if I had that kind of money, yes - absolutely. I applaud them. I applaud those who give to charities that help others in these ways. That does not mean they should be compelled.

I see no command for the government to take care of them and I certainly see no place where there is a command that the individual is to take care of another person's health care costs to the point that the person doing the giving can not take care of their own responsibilities.

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  • Advanced Member

I'm sorry Kitagrl, I must ask a question. If Healthcare is a luxury then why are hospital's required by federal law to provide Emergency care for "illegal's in our country" and why must they provide Emergency care to anyone in say a car accident without proof you have insurance and last but not least, why must we provide inmate's (even the one's that are on death row?!!) medical treatment. This include's dialysis!! In Christ yet I still find the first two upsetting if we're going to have our medical care cut!! opinion?


I'm just saying health care is not a basic human right. Its a luxury we enjoy but not a right.
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Brothers and Sister's in Christ, As christian's we have become Servant's to The LORD and our saviour Jesus Christ. We are His Temple with the Holy Spirit dwelling inside us to comfort us, teach us all thing's...in learning and applying His Word, Following Christ example in how we live our lives and on how to Love our brethren ...His Children! Our ABBA to all that are in Christ and so we are sibling's. Your prOBably thinking..well of course! What's the issue?? I'm concerned where are we in our individual understanding of what this mean's. First of all, we are one family in Christ. Even deeper really, we are one body in Christ! What does that mean? Rom 8:15 We ye have not recieved the spirit of bondage again again to fear; but ye have recieved the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Also read II Cor. 6:18, Gal. 3:26, Gal. 4:5 thru 6 and Eph. 1:5 for more. Now in being a family there are certain thing's He call's us to do for one another. He also take's the time to explain our relationship's and duties as family member in Christ now. He say's; Mt. 12:50 For whosoever shall DO the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Also read Rom. 8:17; 9:26; and 16:13 then I Cor. 4:17; Eph. 2:19; 3:15 and Heb. 2:11. ((( I'm giving you many verses to show what He want's us to understand but don't stop reading because you feel you must read them all!! If you desire, just underline to read later! )) Now He call's us the Chidren of God and explain's very well what is required of us now...I John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT RIGHTEOUSNESS is NOT of God, neither HE THAY LOVETH NOT HIS BROTHER. Also read Rom. 8:14. I think we need to make sure what LOVE TO THE LORD MEAN"S or how can we be loving as He call's us to DO? See, I John 1:18 tell's us "God is love." Do we love like He loves? Read ICor. 13: all * Charity mean's Love so after you read this chapter, read it again with your name replacing Charity or Love. Now, ask yourself. Am I loving like the LORD calls me to love??Christ's example's for us to follow: John 14:18 I will not leave comfortless: I will come to you. Is. 40:1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. I Thess. Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. Reading all of I John1-5 is great but since this is about our loving one another as a family how He desire's I'll write out just one set of verses to pray about; I John 3 thru 18 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abidith in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Hereby percieve we the love og God, because He laid down His life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwellth the love of God in him? My little children, let us NOT love in word, neither in tonque; but in deed and in truth. His Word Only! :bible: IN THE LORD ONLY DO I TRUST, His by Grace :icon_pray:

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

I'm sorry Kitagrl, I must ask a question. If Healthcare is a luxury then why are hospital's required by federal law to provide Emergency care for "illegal's in our country" and why must they provide Emergency care to anyone in say a car accident without proof you have insurance and last but not least, why must we provide inmate's (even the one's that are on death row?!!) medical treatment. This include's dialysis!! In Christ yet I still find the first two upsetting if we're going to have our medical care cut!! opinion?


Its not in the Constitution and its not in the Bible.

We may as well get used to it because when they socialize medicine, we WON"T have "normal care" like we are used to...and if we realize its a privilege and not a right maybe it will be easier to handle. I know I love my health care and I love caring for my kids...but on the other hand I know factually that we are truly not entitled to it. We are spoiled Americans....
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Brothers and Sister's in Christ, As christian's we have become Servant's to The LORD and our saviour Jesus Christ. We are His Temple with the Holy Spirit dwelling inside us to comfort us, teach us all thing's...in learning and applying His Word, Following Christ example in how we live our lives and on how to Love our brethren ...His Children! Our ABBA to all that are in Christ and so we are sibling's. Your prOBably thinking..well of course! What's the issue?? I'm concerned where are we in our individual understanding of what this mean's. First of all, we are one family in Christ. Even deeper really, we are one body in Christ! What does that mean? Rom 8:15 We ye have not recieved the spirit of bondage again again to fear; but ye have recieved the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. Also read II Cor. 6:18, Gal. 3:26, Gal. 4:5 thru 6 and Eph. 1:5 for more. Now in being a family there are certain thing's He call's us to do for one another. He also take's the time to explain our relationship's and duties as family member in Christ now. He say's; Mt. 12:50 For whosoever shall DO the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Also read Rom. 8:17; 9:26; and 16:13 then I Cor. 4:17; Eph. 2:19; 3:15 and Heb. 2:11. ((( I'm giving you many verses to show what He want's us to understand but don't stop reading because you feel you must read them all!! If you desire, just underline to read later! )) Now He call's us the Chidren of God and explain's very well what is required of us now...I John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever DOETH NOT RIGHTEOUSNESS is NOT of God, neither HE THAY LOVETH NOT HIS BROTHER. Also read Rom. 8:14. I think we need to make sure what LOVE TO THE LORD MEAN"S or how can we be loving as He call's us to DO? See, I John 1:18 tell's us "God is love." Do we love like He loves? Read ICor. 13: all * Charity mean's Love so after you read this chapter, read it again with your name replacing Charity or Love. Now, ask yourself. Am I loving like the LORD calls me to love??Christ's example's for us to follow: John 14:18 I will not leave comfortless: I will come to you. Is. 40:1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. I Thess. Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, support the weak, be patient toward all men. Reading all of I John1-5 is great but since this is about our loving one another as a family how He desire's I'll write out just one set of verses to pray about; I John 3 thru 18 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abidith in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. Hereby percieve we the love og God, because He laid down His life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwellth the love of God in him? My little children, let us NOT love in word, neither in tonque; but in deed and in truth. His Word Only! :bible: IN THE LORD ONLY DO I TRUST, His by Grace :icon_pray:


Its all about compassion.

Lu 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
Lu 6:33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
Lu 6:34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
Lu 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Lu 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Few will go to this length, its to costly, to much sacrifice.
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  • Advanced Member

Jerry8########, Let's keep our eye's on Him, His Word and in Prayer! I keep hearing in my head what my son say's ...exitedly I must tell! my Son say's: I cann't wait to see how the LORD is going to work this out OR take care of this need depending on what he's refering to...so I've lived long enough In Christ to have him provide when I couldn't see how in the world He would and HE ALWAY"S PROVIDES!! I'm sure you've seen great miracle''s of provision as well! We depend on Him ONLY Jerry*######! I don't tell a soul, my husband and son will know our need of course! But my son and I just pray and pray with no person knowing and HE provides. That's why I've said for along time that in The LORD ONLY do I trust!! He can use His people but He doesn't need us to work and we all forget that in our walk with Him sometimes. I have before when I felt I physically just couldn't do one more thing. BUT, after a long nap, I can all and share His love and Word!! It took me awhile to see I just needed to do what He would allow me to do. That's His will for me then. Just do His will for your life and leave everything else to the LORD in prayer and He will take care of you and Linda. Your chidren and grandchidren all because of your belief, OBedience and prayer. I cann't wait to hear hoe He provides and to get to share with you how He provides!! In Christ Arm's, His by Grace

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Its all beyond me how God works everything out, but He has in the past, He is doing it during the present time, & He will do it in the future, & He has promise never to forsake nor leave us.

Trying not to be selfish, my prayer is, "Dear Lord, Behold, please come fast, in the name of Jesus, Amen."

My little sermon this evening was, "Faith, Love & Giving."

Lu 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

With in it I pointed out 2, no 3, who gave their all.

Matthew 26:7-9

7 There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

8 But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation, saying, To what purpose is this waste? 9 For this ointment might have been sold for much, and given to the poor.

It seems this woman gave her all to Jesus, when prOBably she actually needed to sell it in order to have necessities, yet she did not, only because of Love & faith in Jesus could she have done that.

And them there was the widow.

Mr 12:42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.
Mr 12:43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:
Mr 12:44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living

What did this widow go without to give all she had? Only because of Faith & Love could she have done this.

And of course the most important one, Jesus, he gave all that we might have life even though we did not have a right to it, deserve it, but actually deserved to pay for our own sin debt.

Sad to say, I've been stingy with both my money and my time, I've never given like that, most of us modern day Christians have not. Have we the Faith, Love, to give in such a manner? We serve the same God they did. Plus, we are not giving ours, its actually God's, who provided all we each have.

I made mention, seems many times we who have little think that those who have lots, ought to bear the burden and we should not sacrifice in order to give, both time and money, to those who are in need, even if they don't deserve it, even if they don't appreciate it, and even if they're our enemies.

Mr 14:3 And being in Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at meat, there came a woman having an alabaster box of ointment of spikenard very precious; and she brake the box, and poured it on his head.
Mr 14:4 And there were some that had indignation within themselves, and said, Why was this waste of the ointment made?
Mr 14:5 For it might have been sold for more than three hundred pence, and have been given to the poor. And they murmured against her.

Perhaps we are getting a lot like these people, why wastes our money on those who are not deserving, those who have not, those who wasted their money, those who don't love us and maybe even hate us, yes save it for our self and our own, spend it on our self or our loved ones as the publicans do?

Mt 5:43

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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

one thing I do know, Doctors are required by law to care for people in an emergency rather they will get paid or not. They can not leave your child bleeding to death because you can't pay. They are forced to act. Same with Fire. Firefighters are forced to put out fire even though your house is a luxury. Someone gotta pay them and it is stealing to expect them to work for free.

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Healthcare is a privilege not a right??? Your statement makes me wonder about many thing's...so why are we helping the people in Haiti? Why do we spend a great deal of money all over the world helping other counties that cann't take care of themselves?? So, God had them born there. He decided.!! See, being a American Citizen isn't a right but a privilege given to us at birth , if you were born here. So, why are we helping other people that God had them born in another country? He made the choice and didn't allow them at birth to be an American citizen which is not their right but God could have given them this privilege yet He didn't!!! Just something to think about. Perhaps we're sinning helping all the people in the world but if we would stop then we could provide for all the American Citizen's that the Lord gave that privilege to as a gift!? In Christ's love, His by Grace


Here's the thing...of COURSE we should help anyone we can help. But the way things are now, as someone mentioned earlier, the government is taking away our money to help our families to pay for people who smoke, drink, have AIDS, and live on welfare.

The health care system is messed up, no way around that, and socialized meds aren't going to help it.

My point is health care is NOT A RIGHT. It is a PRIVILEGE. When you can show me in God's word that I have the RIGHT to health care then I will change my mind.

That does not make me uncompassionate or unloving and it does not mean I do not sacrifice my money for others...(as a matter of fact this week our church will be buying groceries for one of our church families in need) but it does mean that my belief is that health care is not a fundamental human right and I'm tired of people treating it as such.

NOBody appreciates health care because they think they are entititled to it. We ought to appreciate what health care we have as a gift from God. That way, if the doctors ever say "We are sorry, there is nothing else we can do" we won't be so angry and bitter, because we know that God has done for us what He wills, and its time to go.
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Your argument makes no sense. A privilege is anything we get that we should not expect to have happen but should be grateful when it does. I don't understand your reasoning. It has nothing to do with helping others.

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Healthcare is a privilege not a right??? Your statement makes me wonder about many thing's...so why are we helping the people in Haiti? Why do we spend a great deal of money all over the world helping other counties that cann't take care of themselves?? So, God had them born there. He decided.!! See, being a American Citizen isn't a right but a privilege given to us at birth , if you were born here. So, why are we helping other people that God had them born in another country? He made the choice and didn't allow them at birth to be an American citizen which is not their right but God could have given them this privilege yet He didn't!!! Just something to think about. Perhaps we're sinning helping all the people in the world but if we would stop then we could provide for all the American Citizen's that the Lord gave that privilege to as a gift!? In Christ's love, His by Grace


Why do we help those in Haiti? Compassion.

A good question is why would we want and or let our neighbors to go without health care when they're sick?

Why did Jesus heal people? Was it because they deserve it? No.

Jesus died on the cross for our sins. Was it because we deserved it? No.

Jesus' called, those 12, they went and helped many, was it because they deserved it? NO.

Was it because He had compassion for them? Yes.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
John 14:12 (KJV)

Seems that according to Jesus, we who believe on Him and the works He has done, greater works will they do than He. How are we doing? Do we think of our self to often, of what it will cost us? That is we fear we will not have enough stuff if we sacrifice for those who are not deserving.

I'm fear I'm failing miserably, coming up way to short of what I ought to do.
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  • Independent Fundamental Baptist

Suzy is right, healthcare is not a "right". Jerry is correct that we Christians should be doing so much more in this area. There are some fine hospitals and health care facilities run charitibly, St. Jude's is prOBably one of the best known.

Jesus Himself said we will always have the sick and poor among us. We live in a fallen world that will remain stricken by sin until Christ returns and sets things right. We can't end poverty and we can't provide for the healthcare needs of all. What we are called to do is what God has enabled us to do.

Has God granted us enough money that we can donate to a local pro-life pregnancy center, or to a place like St. Jude so that some in need may received needed health care? Has God granted us the talent to work in a place like this or to donate time helping there? Has God placed us in a position where we can help a needy person care for themselves in their own home or to drive them to a clinic for appointments? Do what we can.

As to the governmental aspect, the US Constitution nowhere says that healthcare is a right the US government is to supply and there is no authority given to the US government by the Constitution to be involved in healthcare.

Thankfully, for those of us who are born again Christians we have the promise of God to provide for all our needs. We need not worry.

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Its just annoying when people assume, since I factually realize healthcare is not a God-given right, that I have no compassion nor do I help people....

It IS possible to realize my rights but at the same time do what I personally can to help others.

That's just like...I don't think the government should buy people free houses...but do I feel sorry for someone who doesn't have a house? Yeah. Would I try to help someone who was about to lose their house? Yeah, if I could.... do I still think the government should buy them a house? NO.

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