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I Desire a Stone?


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Matthew 7:7-11 says "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone? Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?"

The first thing to note as we read this passage is the command to ask. God does not assume our willingness to ask him for things. He knows that we are prideful beings and that our human inclination is away from asking for something from someone else. Asking for something has many implications. If we ask for something it implies first of all, and most obviously, that we don't have that thing. It may also imply that we have something, but that it is inferior to the desired object. It could also imply that we are unable to provide the desired object on our own. With most good gifts from God, all of these implications would be true. It takes humility to come before God. It takes humility to admit that he knows our need and he desires to meet that need. It requires that we view ourselves as children who can't help ourselves and that we view our God as all powerful.

Another thing to take note of is that we are told that God will give "good things" when we ask him for "good things." That is the crux of this very practical passage: as a family, and especially as leaders in our homes, we should be asking our Heavenly Father for "good things". In order to be obedient to the command to ask our Father for good things, we must know what "good things" are.

In this very passage, God uses the earthly family as an example of how he gives good things to us, his children. If my son asks for a piece of bread, I absolutely would not give him a stone to chew on. If he asks for bread, it means he is hungry and needs sustenance for growth. It would be an abuse of my God-given ability and responsibility to give him anything other than what he needed. The same thing goes with the example of the desire for a fish. To give him a snake would be most unlike the action of our Father.

Notice a few characteristics of the things that were asked for by the son.

First, they were needful things. Food is necessary for growth.

Second, they were satisfying things. The hunger of a young child is satisfied when he is fed.

Third, they were specific things. The child in the example asked for specific food items, not just something to eat.

Are the things you ask God for standing up to these criteria?

The Holy Spirit, mentioned in place of "good things" in the parallel passage of Luke 11:9, certainly meets all of these criteria.

How does this practically apply to the family? If God will give good things to his children, then we should give good things to our children. Not just the physical things that aren't needful, satisfying, or specific, but the things that will last for eternity, like God's Word, or things that will effect their eternity, like a good example of a relationship with Christ.

In Matthew 6, we are given a list of temporal things that we are told not to worry about. We are also told that our Father in Heaven knows that we have need of those things already. Those things should not be the limit of our requests to our Father. In fact, there is good evidence here that suggests that we shouldn't find ourselves asking for these things at all. They are not the "good things" he alludes to in chapter 7. So then the "good things" must be the things that will promote the kingdom of God and his righteousness, because those are the things we should seek first.

Is the desire and most requested thing in your home the kingdom of God and his righteousness?

PRACTICE: Talk with your family about what your collective desires are in light of Matthew 6 and 7. Are they good desires? Do they concern the things of God, or are they limited to merely physical and temporal things?

Experiment: Make a list of 10 good things that we should desire from our Heavenly Father. Post the list in your home and make them the objects of your prayers during the day.

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Amen! to what you wrote.

A little side note on the passage, if anyone is interested.

The bread of that time was round and flat, about dinner plate size, very thin, and cooked on both sides, looking much like the Chappatis of India. The bread was cooked, and then stacked on a stone about the same diameter as the bread. Another stone was put on top of the stack to keep the bread warm. Ghee, which is like butter, was used in cooking the bread. Over time, the stones would soak up the ghee and take on the color of the bread. The father would know the difference between a stone and the bread, though the child may not.
When a fisherman in the east would fish, part os his job was to separate the edible fish from the fish which would make you sick, called serpents. The father would know which was which, but a child had to be taught.
In Luke 11:12, there is also the following: "Or if he shall ask an egg, will he (the father) offer him a scorpion?"
In the east, there are 3 colors of scorpions, one of which is white. This scorpions father dies immediately after conception. The mother dies as the scorpions eat their way out of the mother's abdomen. The scorpions are orphans when born, without anyone to feed, protect, or train them. The body of white scorpions may be mistaken for an egg in looks. It is even white and yellow when broken open. It is possible for a child to mistake a scorpion for an egg, but a father knows best.
Luke goes on to specify that our heavenly Father will give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him. In our day and time, that is when we get saved. God does not give us a counterfeit or something which will hurt us, only the genuine, healthful item.
If anyone were to say that the Holy Spirit had them do something which harmed them in any way, that is a lie.

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Amen! to what you wrote.

A little side note on the passage, if anyone is interested.

The bread of that time was round and flat, about dinner plate size, very thin, and cooked on both sides, looking much like the Chappatis of India. The bread was cooked, and then stacked on a stone about the same diameter as the bread. Another stone was put on top of the stack to keep the bread warm. Ghee, which is like butter, was used in cooking the bread. Over time, the stones would soak up the ghee and take on the color of the bread. The father would know the difference between a stone and the bread, though the child may not.
When a fisherman in the east would fish, part os his job was to separate the edible fish from the fish which would make you sick, called serpents. The father would know which was which, but a child had to be taught.
In Luke 11:12, there is also the following: "Or if he shall ask an egg, will he (the father) offer him a scorpion?"
In the east, there are 3 colors of scorpions, one of which is white. This scorpions father dies immediately after conception. The mother dies as the scorpions eat their way out of the mother's abdomen. The scorpions are orphans when born, without anyone to feed, protect, or train them. The body of white scorpions may be mistaken for an egg in looks. It is even white and yellow when broken open. It is possible for a child to mistake a scorpion for an egg, but a father knows best.
Luke goes on to specify that our heavenly Father will give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him. In our day and time, that is when we get saved. God does not give us a counterfeit or something which will hurt us, only the genuine, healthful item.
If anyone were to say that the Holy Spirit had them do something which harmed them in any way, that is a lie.


Trell,
When Jesus said "a serpent", he was really referring to an inedible fish? Where did you get that information? Could you point me toward one of those white scorpions? I would like to check that out too. Thanks
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Amen! to what you wrote.

A little side note on the passage, if anyone is interested.

The bread of that time was round and flat, about dinner plate size, very thin, and cooked on both sides, looking much like the Chappatis of India. The bread was cooked, and then stacked on a stone about the same diameter as the bread. Another stone was put on top of the stack to keep the bread warm. Ghee, which is like butter, was used in cooking the bread. Over time, the stones would soak up the ghee and take on the color of the bread. The father would know the difference between a stone and the bread, though the child may not.
When a fisherman in the east would fish, part os his job was to separate the edible fish from the fish which would make you sick, called serpents. The father would know which was which, but a child had to be taught.


Like heartstrings, I take that claim with a whole lot more than a grain of salt. :wink



In Luke 11:12, there is also the following: "Or if he shall ask an egg, will he (the father) offer him a scorpion?"
In the east, there are 3 colors of scorpions, one of which is white. This scorpions father dies immediately after conception. The mother dies as the scorpions eat their way out of the mother's abdomen. The scorpions are orphans when born, without anyone to feed, protect, or train them. The body of white scorpions may be mistaken for an egg in looks. It is even white and yellow when broken open. It is possible for a child to mistake a scorpion for an egg, but a father knows best.


Beside the fact that it is pretty ridiculous to think that even a very young child is going to "mistake" any scorpion for an egg(just a little bit of a size/shape/movement difference lol) almost every other "fact" is untrue as well. There are at least 20 species and more than three "colors" of scorpions in Israel alone(never mind that color also depends to some degree on how long it has been since molting and any fresh molt will look white) , females do not "generally" kill the males after courtship, as the males beat a hasty retreat, and the young most certainly do not "eat their way out" of the mothers abdomen in any species of scorpion. To the contrary, in most scorpion species the female cares for the young and carries them around on her back for a while til they have matured a bit. I don't know where such wild "pastor stories" originate but they are all to common in IFB circles. I wish a little more fact checking would be done before repeating such stories. I mean even if one knew nothing at all about scorpions in two minutes with google you could find out a lot of that isn't true. Just because something seems like it "preaches" if you will it doesn't mean it is true...

Don't take this as picking on you though trell, it is nothing personal, this is more of a general frustration with way to many generally "doctrinally sound" pastors who focus so much on the "sermon" that they don't seem to care that they are playing fast and loose with the truth in half their stories/illustrations/notes. They discredit themselves and shame the Lord with their carelessness without even realizing it.

Grace and peace...
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Like heartstrings, I take that claim with a whole lot more than a grain of salt. :wink




Beside the fact that it is pretty ridiculous to think that even a very young child is going to "mistake" any scorpion for an egg(just a little bit of a size/shape/movement difference lol) almost every other "fact" is untrue as well. There are at least 20 species and more than three "colors" of scorpions in Israel alone(never mind that color also depends to some degree on how long it has been since molting and any fresh molt will look white) , females do not "generally" kill the males after courtship, as the males beat a hasty retreat, and the young most certainly do not "eat their way out" of the mothers abdomen in any species of scorpion. To the contrary, in most scorpion species the female cares for the young and carries them around on her back for a while til they have matured a bit. I don't know where such wild "pastor stories" originate but they are all to common in IFB circles. I wish a little more fact checking would be done before repeating such stories. I mean even if one knew nothing at all about scorpions in two minutes with google you could find out a lot of that isn't true. Just because something seems like it "preaches" if you will it doesn't mean it is true...

Don't take this as picking on you though trell, it is nothing personal, this is more of a general frustration with way to many generally "doctrinally sound" pastors who focus so much on the "sermon" that they don't seem to care that they are playing fast and loose with the truth in half their stories/illustrations/notes. They discredit themselves and shame the Lord with their carelessness without even realizing it.

Grace and peace...

Amen! I totally agree with you regarding pastors passing on "facts" that are false. As you say, it's so very easy to check things out today with Google.
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I recommend Orientalisms of the Bible by K C Pillai. I doubt google has anything on it. The Bible is an eastern book, not a product of the western world. The way people lived was normal for them. Can you imagine saying to someone from 2000 years ago, 'I am running down to gas station to get a cup of java" ? You wouldn't be running, you would drive. Why go to a gas station (a place where they sell gas) to get a cup of java, a country?

God's word is far too important to make stuff up about it, or over-spiritualize and read into it that which it doesn't say.

God bless.

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I recommend Orientalisms of the Bible by K C Pillai. I doubt google has anything on it.


Don't underestimate the power of google. :wink

http://www.biblecust...nt-orientalisms

The Bible is an eastern book, not a product of the western world.


The bible is a divine book preserved by God for all peoples and while I don't doubt there are some things where it is helpful to understand the cultural context the bible is not as difficult to understand as some would make it out to be. The "western mind" can grasp it just fine.

God's word is far too important to make stuff up about it, or over-spiritualize and read into it that which it doesn't say.



I agree. Taking a look at the book online it is easy to see the author made many serious errors on matters where an author of his time should have known better. It is apparent he is not not a careful or trustworthy source. Looks to me like a book written to catch preachers rather than a serious and and trustworthy source of truth. Such is unfortunately typical much of the literature and authors in that class. Careful intellectualism and going in depth is fine, no pretense of intellectualism is fine, but phony intellectualism and telling made up "facts" that sound good to the ill informed is not fine. Edited by Seth-Doty
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On 10/14/2011 at 6:49 PM, Seth Doty said:

Don't underestimate the power of google.

The Scorpion - CCEL

ccel.org/c/cook/animals/h/webdoc26.htm

The scorpions in that country are about as large as an egg, and when rolled up look a little like one. Yet no father would be so wicked as to give one to his child instead of the egg which he needed for food.

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On 10/14/2011 at 5:01 PM, trell said:

I recommend Orientalisms of the Bible by K C Pillai. I doubt google has anything on it. The Bible is an eastern book, not a product of the western world. The way people lived was normal for them. Can you imagine saying to someone from 2000 years ago, 'I am running down to gas station to get a cup of java" ? You wouldn't be running, you would drive. Why go to a gas station (a place where they sell gas) to get a cup of java, a country?

God's word is far too important to make stuff up about it, or over-spiritualize and read into it that which it doesn't say.

God bless.

So much in the original Hebrew is recovered when people anywhere look for it - simple and often amazing unexpected truth they thought once was complicated (as men made it complicated when it was simple).

Perhaps a hunger for truth will lead to more seeking the truth,  and keep seeking the truth ? 

https://confidenceandjoy.com/bread-fish-and-an-egg/

 Much much better and life-understanding giving!  

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