Forgiveness

[Anon]

In dealing with forgiveness...the Bible teaches salvation puts our sin away and when we are in judgement we will be judged for our works and not our sins, if we are saved.

BUT...

On the other hand alot is preached on forgiveness...confessing our sins and "if you don't forgive others, God won't forgive you" etc.

But doesn't the Bible teach that we are "justified" if we are saved? What part does forgiveness play in a saved person's life?

I was just studying my sunday school lesson and it teaches the well known lesson that we should forgive others so that God will forgive us. But technically if we are saved...we ARE forgiven...right?

So...what's the best way to reconcile this? I realize we have to keep a right relationship with God as far as not quenching the Spirit but as a Christian do we need actual "forgiveness" or is the verse I'm supposed to be teaching in Sunday School actually a dispensational one? Also I John 1:9 as well...is taught to saved people...but....?

[Jerry]

In light of eternity, our sins are forgiven - but on a day to day basis, we must repent and confess our sins to have fellowship with the Lord and to have Him working through us. As long as we have this sinful nature, we need His cleansing and mercy when we defile ourselves by our sins.

[Anon]

But is that considered "forgiveness" or is it just "quenching not the spirit"?

[Seth Doty]

In dealing with forgiveness...the Bible teaches salvation puts our sin away and when we are in judgement we will be judged for our works and not our sins, if we are saved.

BUT...

On the other hand alot is preached on forgiveness...confessing our sins and "if you don't forgive others, God won't forgive you" etc.

But doesn't the Bible teach that we are "justified" if we are saved? What part does forgiveness play in a saved person's life?

I was just studying my sunday school lesson and it teaches the well known lesson that we should forgive others so that God will forgive us. But technically if we are saved...we ARE forgiven...right?

So...what's the best way to reconcile this? I realize we have to keep a right relationship with God as far as not quenching the Spirit but as a Christian do we need actual "forgiveness" or is the verse I'm supposed to be teaching in Sunday School actually a dispensational one? Also I John 1:9 as well...is taught to saved people...but....?

My take on those passages is that there are different "levels" of forgiveness. While on the one hand we are justified through Christ and therefore always free from the ultimate penalty of sin, verses like 1 John 1:9 tell us the importance of confessing our sins and verses like Matthew 6:14-15, the parable in Matthew 18, Mark 11:25-26, Luke 6:37, etc. all tell us the importance of forgiving others if we wish to be forgiven.

The first and greatest "level" of forgiveness every true believer receives automatically at salvation because of the finished work of Christ. The second "level" is not automatic but is necessary to stay in a right relationship with God and to avoid his chastisement.

If we look at what the Lord is saying in the parable found in Matthew 18 he is saying divine judgement/punishment is going to come on those that are not forgiving others as the Lord has forgiven them. In other words, if a believer is being stubborn and refuses to confess his known sins or forgive someone, God is going to make them suffer and be punished for their own sins in ways they could have avoided if they would confess their sins and forgive others.

I guess it might be similar to how a parent might sometimes choose not to spank a child who is OBviously sorry and has learned his lesson while a child who is OBviously not sorry is sure to get spanked and prOBably a whole lot worse.

[Anon]

Hmm thats very true...good explanation Seth.

I guess it goes along with the chastisement passage, that God chastises His children if they are true sons...so we are kind of talking "earthly forgiveness".

I suppose it also ties in with "judge not that ye be not judged" and "what you sow that will you also reap" because if we are not forgiving of others, then our sins will be "judged" and "reaped" here on earth as you said.

Good, that helps me explain it to my class.... (5th and 6th graders)

[Seth Doty]

I guess it goes along with the chastisement passage, that God chastises His children if they are true sons...so we are kind of talking "earthly forgiveness".

I suppose it also ties in with "judge not that ye be not judged" and "what you sow that will you also reap" because if we are not forgiving of others, then our sins will be "judged" and "reaped" here on earth

Yes, exactly.

[His by Grace]

Kitagirl, I'm so glad you posted this because I've struggled with this as well. Once we are saved , we ARE justified, this is the forgiveness dealing with salvation. We know we cann't lose our salvation. Amen!! Not because of anything we do but because we are covered with Christ's righteousness...we have none on our own! BUT, then when it talks about our forgiving others so He will forgive you...from studying and discussion, I believe His Word is talking about our staying in the right fellowship or like you said "Not quenching the Spirit" An example I think of is about the husband and how the Lord say's how to treat your wife or their prayers are hindered. I thought that meant not heard but I had a ministerial student tell me hindered isn't the same as not heard. I don't know the difference except to know that the Lord is saying there is diffinately a prOBlem if your not meeting my standard and my hearing your prayer and answering like He would in a pure relationship. I believe that's the same thing about our forgiving others, it hinders our relationship with the Lord. I'm only sharing what the Lord's shown me but I would love to have a teaching on this from a man that really could teach me more clearly than I am understanding. What do you think now? Just in prayer over! His by Grace I was writing this then when I posted everything from Seth-Doty was there so I'm sorry because I would just erase mine but I cann't. right?

[Jerry]

Just to clarify something Seth said: The second "level" is not automatic but is necessary to stay in a right relationship with God and to avoid his chastisement.

Right fellowship, not right relationship. Our relationship with the Lord stays the same after salvation, but our fellowship is hindered when we have undealt with sin in our lives.

[Seth Doty]

Just to clarify something Seth said: The second "level" is not automatic but is necessary to stay in a right relationship with God and to avoid his chastisement.

Right fellowship, not right relationship. Our relationship with the Lord stays the same after salvation, but our fellowship is hindered when we have undealt with sin in our lives.

Thanks for making the clarification. I should have been more clear. Sometimes I tend to use "in a right relationship" and "in fellowship" as interchangeable terms and forget that some people use "right relationship" as a term dealing only with salvation/justification before God.

Certainly our adopted and justified state before God is not affected if a believer does not forgive others, but just as certainly God is not at all happy with believers who choose to behave like that and they will suffer for it.

[FeatherDuster]

I think everyone will be forgiven in the end.. .Including me.

[JerryNumbers]

I think everyone will be forgiven in the end.. .Including me.

Is this what you mean: "In the end, everyone will be forgiven and welcomed into heaven even if they have not accepted Jesus as their Savior"?