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The spoiled Laodicean Church


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Yes, BUT. Clearly the dead are raised at the last day, & living believers are transformed as we rise to meet our Lord in the air. We will not be on the earth when it is burned up. We will be returned to a new heaven & new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Peter does not teach the fantastic 'end times scenario' that is so popular today, which gives believers a grand stand view of all the tribulations of the ungodly. Neither does Paul, in 2 Thes. 1. Nor does he in 1 Thes. 4 & 5. Jesus teaches that when we see all the signs, we are to flee Jerusalem.

And nowhere in the Bible do we see a blissful time of perfect fulfilment of all the promises culminating in a final rebellion. In Rev. 20, the souls of the martyrs lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. The millennium is now.

the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

No. We must not be careless Laodiceans. We must not relax in our prosperity as if prosperity in this life is God's special blessing.


The Bible, the Word of God teaches it, sorry, but you need to try this.

2Ti
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Omega's theology falls apart on one simple premise: he teaches that the Tribulation is not a period of God's wrath - therefore the church can go through it. However, the Bible teaches in two parallel passages that the whole seven years IS God's wrath. If he misses the boat on that main point, I daresay he will be off on other endtimes theology!

If the people in view in Luke 21 (quoted below) are the church, then God's Word contradicts as Isaiah states that those who undergo these things are experiencing the wrath of God.

Luke 21:25-28 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


Greetings brother Jerry!

I am busy daily serving the Lord in several ministries, so my apologies for any delayed responses or posts I have not replied to.

What you posted is a common mistake that many pre-tribbers make. There are no passages that places God's wrath during the Tribulation, and the passages you cited proves just the opposite. Both of the passages you cited places "the day of the Lord" after the Tribulation. Take a closer look again at the passage in Matthew 24, which is a parallel of Luke 21:25-28

Here again is my opening post:

Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened' date=' and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:[/b'] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (Matthew 24:29,30)

Now these signs (the sun being darkened, stars falling from heaven, the moon not giving it's light, etc.)...Jesus said in Matt. 24:29 that these occur immediately "after" the Tribulation period. Now if we allow the scriptures to interpret the scriptures rather than our own views to interpret the scriptures...we will see that this occurs after the Tribulation and hear the people say that the wrath of the Lamb has come. When? after the Tribulation. Believers are protected from His wrath, but this occurs "after" the Tribulation.


Now I'm sure that we can both concede that "the wrath of the Lamb" is the wrath of God, so let us look to Revelation 6 as a prooftext that God's wrath (wrath of the Lamb) occurs after the Tribulation. The celestial events that unfold in Luke 21:25-28 and Isaiah 13:6-13 are indentical to that of Revelation 6.

And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? (Revelation 6:12-17)

Both passages you cited (Luke 21:25-28; Isaiah 13:6-13) are parallel passages of Revelation 6:12-17 which clearly teaches that God's wrath occurs after the Tribulation. The bible cannot be any clearer. I believe that the church today is too complacent and the end time Tribulation is what the Lord will use to give the church a good spanking. I would be more than happy if you can prove me wrong, because nOBody wants to go through the Tribulation. However, I also know that my opinions and desires don't amount to a hill of beans when it stands against the Word of God.

God Bless!
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The whole seven years is the Tribulation - Jesus Himself referred to events in the second half of the seven years as the "great tribulation."

Covenanter: You think the Millennium is going on now? Wow!?! Last I checked, Jesus was not physically reigning from Jerusalem - AND we have not even seen a one-world leader and religion which Revelation teaches was to come first.

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The whole seven years is the Tribulation - Jesus Himself referred to events in the second half of the seven years as the "great tribulation."

Can you tell me where to find Jesus' reference to 7 years? The tribulation he refers to in the Olivet prophecy is prior to the AD 70 destruction. He does of course warn Jhn 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. That tribulation is ongoing suffering of believers at the hands of persecutors, & is in no way the wrath of God.

Covenanter: You think the Millennium is going on now? Wow!?! Last I checked, Jesus was not physically reigning from Jerusalem - AND we have not even seen a one-world leader and religion which Revelation teaches was to come first.

Where does Jesus, or any of his Apostles prophesy a physical reign from Jerusalem? 'We' had one world rulers in Roman times, when Christians died for refusing to worship the Emperor. We are citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem, & Christ ascended to his heavenly throne after his resurrection.

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