Members speerjp1 Posted December 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 7, 2009 Thanks for all the responses so far. It really isn't the same discussion Kevin started. I should have titled it differently, I guess. I am speaking specifically about evangelism as a part of the actual assembly of believers. Here is an example of something I've come to find prOBlematic: A pastor stands before his people and pleads for them to bring the lost into the church. He says things like "the church is their only hope." During church sponsored evangelism efforts in the community, preaching the gospel is discouraged. Confronting folks about their salvation or lack thereof is discouraged. Anything other than simply asking if they attend church anywhere and inviting them to visit one's own church is discouraged. When lost folks do visit, the church tries to make the lost as comfortable as possible so that they will come more. It has always been my understanding that the assembly of believers is just that: an assembly of believers. The lost have no function in the church outside of potentially hearing the gospel and being saved by God's good grace. I agree that the gospel should be a part of each service because you don't know who is lost and who is saved. Any way, I hope this helps to steer the conversation a little more in the direction I intended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted December 7, 2009 Members Share Posted December 7, 2009 It has always been my understanding that the assembly of believers is just that: an assembly of believers. I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bzmomo7 Posted December 7, 2009 Members Share Posted December 7, 2009 Thanks for all the responses so far. It really isn't the same discussion Kevin started. I should have titled it differently, I guess. I am speaking specifically about evangelism as a part of the actual assembly of believers. Here is an example of something I've come to find prOBlematic: A pastor stands before his people and pleads for them to bring the lost into the church. He says things like "the church is their only hope." During church sponsored evangelism efforts in the community, preaching the gospel is discouraged. Confronting folks about their salvation or lack thereof is discouraged. Anything other than simply asking if they attend church anywhere and inviting them to visit one's own church is discouraged. When lost folks do visit, the church tries to make the lost as comfortable as possible so that they will come more. It has always been my understanding that the assembly of believers is just that: an assembly of believers. The lost have no function in the church outside of potentially hearing the gospel and being saved by God's good grace. I agree that the gospel should be a part of each service because you don't know who is lost and who is saved. Any way, I hope this helps to steer the conversation a little more in the direction I intended. Seems like there is just a lot of imbalance in general in churches. I see the flip side of this too, when a great deal of community evangelism is encouraged and only a few come into the church after they have made a profession...........and of those that do, there are still a percentage that get offended and quickly fall away and appear to be still unsaved. It is sad. Kevin, I'd rather hear a 40-60 minute sermon with a purpose any day over a 20-minute pep talk. Then again, tell the preacher to throw away the clock.............just preach until the Holy Spirit lets him know he's got the point across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted December 7, 2009 Members Share Posted December 7, 2009 I like things to be short and sweet. I prefer someone to make their point and move on, not saying it again five million different ways. But that's just me. My pastor usually speaks for about 30 to 40 minutes but he keeps it interesting by encouraging feedback or participation from the congregation or using on-stage illustrations and such. Plus, his style is more of making the Bible come alive and using what the Bible says to make changes in our lives, rather than preaching on standards or yelling at the congregation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bzmomo7 Posted December 7, 2009 Members Share Posted December 7, 2009 I like things to be short and sweet. I prefer someone to make their point and move on, not saying it again five million different ways. But that's just me. My pastor usually speaks for about 30 to 40 minutes but he keeps it interesting by encouraging feedback or participation from the congregation or using on-stage illustrations and such. Plus, his style is more of making the Bible come alive and using what the Bible says to make changes in our lives, rather than preaching on standards or yelling at the congregation. Well, you know, the Lord DOES have standards. BTW, I don't care for the ear-splitting type preaching style either. It distracts me from the points that are trying to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted December 7, 2009 Members Share Posted December 7, 2009 Well, you know, the Lord DOES have standards. Not as many as IFB's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Pastor Matt Posted December 7, 2009 Administrators Share Posted December 7, 2009 Not as many as IFB's. Please, lets stop the stereotypes. When is the last time we made stereotypes about non-denominationals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted December 7, 2009 Administrators Share Posted December 7, 2009 The church is for the assembling of believers, to worship, to grow and to be edified. However, I personally don't think the Bible teaches that it is wrong to encourage the lost to come - especially if there are specific times in which salvation messages are going to be preached. Our church has a few weeks set aside each year in which we emphasize bringing the lost to hear messages that are specifically about salvation. We work as a team bringing in many to whom we have witnessed and/or prayed for. And there is always wonderful result However - our pastor makes it a point to remind us that it is the jOB of the Christian to be a witness - both verbally and in our lives. He is very strong on the fact that we are to witness on an individual basis. Two evenings a year we have "church-wide" visitation. Now, as a church, we are constantly going out throughout the week. These 2 nights, though, are organized by city (we've done our town and the bordering ones at least twice since we started - every door!). The staff set up streets in a particular town (of course, the towns bordering us - we don't go out of our local area). Those who are going to participate (and it is most of the church) sign up, and we are paired up. Then, we meet in the auditorium for a song and prayer and off we go. It's such a neat sight - to see all those cars heading out to the same town, and then as we near our street, to see fellow members walking to the houses. Anyway, the purpose of this visitation time is to reach the homes. We invite people to church, and our pastor has encouraged us every time to tell people about Christ - if they are willing to listen at that point. Some are just getting home, or just sitting down to supper, so we are to be aware of that and not leave a bad taste in their mouths (just common sense, really). We always invite them to church, and leave a church brochure (which has the plan of salvation on it) and, if we have a big day coming, information on that. There have been people saved as a result, either on the night or when it's been followed up later. But never, ever, would our preacher tell us not to tell someone about Christ!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members bzmomo7 Posted December 7, 2009 Members Share Posted December 7, 2009 Not as many as IFB's. Well, I'm not so sure about that, although, I have heard the joke told that it is easier to get saved than to get membership in an IFB church. The Lord DOES have many standards that are completely ignored today, and many people pick and choose what they want to follow. That is one of the biggest stumblingblocks to the unsaved I think. Preachers ought to preach more about it, I think, but I have seen that many allow their kids to engage in the same questionable activities.......(in this statement I am not only referring to IFB) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members kevinmiller Posted December 7, 2009 Members Share Posted December 7, 2009 Please, lets stop the stereotypes. When is the last time we made stereotypes about non-denominationals? Not non-denominationals, in particular, just anyone not IFB. I could make a long list with all the things I've been called by IFB'ers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Pastor Matt Posted December 7, 2009 Administrators Share Posted December 7, 2009 So that makes it right? So that we do not take this thread off topic, please reply back via PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members speerjp1 Posted December 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 7, 2009 The church is for the assembling of believers, to worship, to grow and to be edified. However, I personally don't think the Bible teaches that it is wrong to encourage the lost to come - especially if there are specific times in which salvation messages are going to be preached. Our church has a few weeks set aside each year in which we emphasize bringing the lost to hear messages that are specifically about salvation. We work as a team bringing in many to whom we have witnessed and/or prayed for. And there is always wonderful result However - our pastor makes it a point to remind us that it is the jOB of the Christian to be a witness - both verbally and in our lives. He is very strong on the fact that we are to witness on an individual basis. Two evenings a year we have "church-wide" visitation. Now, as a church, we are constantly going out throughout the week. These 2 nights, though, are organized by city (we've done our town and the bordering ones at least twice since we started - every door!). The staff set up streets in a particular town (of course, the towns bordering us - we don't go out of our local area). Those who are going to participate (and it is most of the church) sign up, and we are paired up. Then, we meet in the auditorium for a song and prayer and off we go. It's such a neat sight - to see all those cars heading out to the same town, and then as we near our street, to see fellow members walking to the houses. Anyway, the purpose of this visitation time is to reach the homes. We invite people to church, and our pastor has encouraged us every time to tell people about Christ - if they are willing to listen at that point. Some are just getting home, or just sitting down to supper, so we are to be aware of that and not leave a bad taste in their mouths (just common sense, really). We always invite them to church, and leave a church brochure (which has the plan of salvation on it) and, if we have a big day coming, information on that. There have been people saved as a result, either on the night or when it's been followed up later. But never, ever, would our preacher tell us not to tell someone about Christ!!!! Good post. One thing that has concerned me is the seemingly large number of folks occupying church pews who seem to have been "won to the church" and never to Christ. They were lost when they were encouraged to attend regularly and they became more comfortable and they started acclimating to the standards and customs of the assembly where they attended. Then they became a member with either a vague testimony of salvation or no testimony of salvation at all. I recently heard a pastor tell how he told a lost young man to stop coming to church until he got saved or was ready to get saved. The young man had been turning over a new leaf, but had never made any type of indication that he had gotten saved. The pastor was concerned that if he allowed the young man to continue in his religious form, that he would become "twice a child of hell" thinking that he was okay while never repenting or entering into a relationship with God through his Christ. The young man stopped coming and the pastor began to pursue him in prayer and in teaching him personally about salvation and the need for repentance. Within a few weeks the man got saved, baptized, and joined the local church as a faithful member. I related this story to a few of my friends who were disgusted and revolted at the idea of asking someone not to come back to church until they were ready to be a part of the body of Christ indeed. They said that even if a few who came really get saved, then it was worth it, even if the rest were, in effect, made twice a child of hell. Should the lost be encouraged to attend church at all cost, even if it means that they may acquire a form of godliness and deny the power thereof? Is there an acceptable amount of "collateral damage" in Biblical evangelism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members speerjp1 Posted December 7, 2009 Author Members Share Posted December 7, 2009 I just renamed this thread so others would get involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted December 7, 2009 Administrators Share Posted December 7, 2009 Good post. One thing that has concerned me is the seemingly large number of folks occupying church pews who seem to have been "won to the church" and never to Christ. They were lost when they were encouraged to attend regularly and they became more comfortable and they started acclimating to the standards and customs of the assembly where they attended. Then they became a member with either a vague testimony of salvation or no testimony of salvation at all. I recently heard a pastor tell how he told a lost young man to stop coming to church until he got saved or was ready to get saved. The young man had been turning over a new leaf, but had never made any type of indication that he had gotten saved. The pastor was concerned that if he allowed the young man to continue in his religious form, that he would become "twice a child of hell" thinking that he was okay while never repenting or entering into a relationship with God through his Christ. The young man stopped coming and the pastor began to pursue him in prayer and in teaching him personally about salvation and the need for repentance. Within a few weeks the man got saved, baptized, and joined the local church as a faithful member. I related this story to a few of my friends who were disgusted and revolted at the idea of asking someone not to come back to church until they were ready to be a part of the body of Christ indeed. They said that even if a few who came really get saved, then it was worth it, even if the rest were, in effect, made twice a child of hell. Should the lost be encouraged to attend church at all cost, even if it means that they may acquire a form of godliness and deny the power thereof? Is there an acceptable amount of "collateral damage" in Biblical evangelism? Hmmm - I've never heard of asking a lost person to quit coming to church, but it does make sense! I don't think any "collateral damage" is acceptable, really. Since God sent His Son to die for the sins of the entire world, I think we are doing a great sin in making any a twofold child of Hell - just as the pharisees did! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Psalms18_28 Posted December 7, 2009 Members Share Posted December 7, 2009 Good post. One thing that has concerned me is the seemingly large number of folks occupying church pews who seem to have been "won to the church" and never to Christ. They were lost when they were encouraged to attend regularly and they became more comfortable and they started acclimating to the standards and customs of the assembly where they attended. Then they became a member with either a vague testimony of salvation or no testimony of salvation at all. I recently heard a pastor tell how he told a lost young man to stop coming to church until he got saved or was ready to get saved. The young man had been turning over a new leaf, but had never made any type of indication that he had gotten saved. The pastor was concerned that if he allowed the young man to continue in his religious form, that he would become "twice a child of hell" thinking that he was okay while never repenting or entering into a relationship with God through his Christ. The young man stopped coming and the pastor began to pursue him in prayer and in teaching him personally about salvation and the need for repentance. Within a few weeks the man got saved, baptized, and joined the local church as a faithful member. I related this story to a few of my friends who were disgusted and revolted at the idea of asking someone not to come back to church until they were ready to be a part of the body of Christ indeed. They said that even if a few who came really get saved, then it was worth it, even if the rest were, in effect, made twice a child of hell. Should the lost be encouraged to attend church at all cost, even if it means that they may acquire a form of godliness and deny the power thereof? Is there an acceptable amount of "collateral damage" in Biblical evangelism? That could backfire for those who are saved because they make their teens come to church too, and their teens are far more likely not saved. The best you can do and neither discourage or encourage people to come to church. Tell them they are invited and welcome to visit your church when they are ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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