Evangelism as the Focus in the Assembly of Believers?

[speerjp1]

Hmmm - I've never heard of asking a lost person to quit coming to church, but it does make sense! I don't think any "collateral damage" is acceptable, really. Since God sent His Son to die for the sins of the entire world, I think we are doing a great sin in making any a twofold child of Hell - just as the pharisees did!

It seems to me that there are a lot of Pharisees giving birth to Pharisees, religious people giving birth to religious people, and church members giving birth to church members.

We have a famine in the land of Christians begetting true spiritual babes who will grow up in the Lord by the power of the Holy Ghost living within.

I guess the two issues at hand are 1) the Biblical Model of Evangelism and 2) the Biblical Model of the Assembly of Believers.

A man with whom I've been discussing this issue asked me to show him Bible passages that teach what I've been saying and he claims that he already has verses about how were are primarily supposed to evangelize within the church on Sunday's and Wednesdays (our normal meeting times).

While specifically thinking along the lines of Evangelism's role within the Assembly of the Body of Christ, please give me any passages you believe support either 1) the church assembly as the primary place of evangelism or 2) that our evangelistic efforts should be focused on taking the gospel to the lost where they are.

I already have passages and principles written down, but I want to hear what some of you more mature brothers and sisters have found in God's word as a firm foundation for righteousness in this area.

(I just noticed the response regarding family salvation. That is kind of a different issue that can be put to the side for now so we can focus on evangelism of non-immediate family members.)

[JerryNumbers]

Hmmm - I've never heard of asking a lost person to quit coming to church, but it does make sense! I don't think any "collateral damage" is acceptable, really. Since God sent His Son to die for the sins of the entire world, I think we are doing a great sin in making any a twofold child of Hell - just as the pharisees did!

Why in the world would any church & or church member ask a lost person not to attend their church services? The only reason to consider asking & or stopping anyone from attending church services is if they were causing trouble. But of course 1st you should try to straighten things out, them only after that fails ask them not to come back.

Anyone who would do so for any other reason would be completely out of order.

What better place for a lost person to be, than at a place that is preaching & teaching God's true pure Word.

Surely no church out there does anything behind the closed doors of church services that needs to be hid from the world and the lost people. I though only the masons do such stuff as that.

[Psalms18_28]

It seems to me that there are a lot of Pharisees giving birth to Pharisees, religious people giving birth to religious people, and church members giving birth to church members.

We have a famine in the land of Christians begetting true spiritual babes who will grow up in the Lord by the power of the Holy Ghost living within.

I guess the two issues at hand are 1) the Biblical Model of Evangelism and 2) the Biblical Model of the Assembly of Believers.

A man with whom I've been discussing this issue asked me to show him Bible passages that teach what I've been saying and he claims that he already has verses about how were are primarily supposed to evangelize within the church on Sunday's and Wednesdays (our normal meeting times).

While specifically thinking along the lines of Evangelism's role within the Assembly of the Body of Christ, please give me any passages you believe support either 1) the church assembly as the primary place of evangelism or 2) that our evangelistic efforts should be focused on taking the gospel to the lost where they are.

I already have passages and principles written down, but I want to hear what some of you more mature brothers and sisters have found in God's word as a firm foundation for righteousness in this area.

(I just noticed the response regarding family salvation. That is kind of a different issue that can be put to the side for now so we can focus on evangelism of non-immediate family members.)

I can't remember the exact verse or number (I will edit it when I find it) but didn't Jesus say the church is for the sick?

[speerjp1]

Why in the world would any church & or church member ask a lost person not to attend their church services? The only reason to consider asking & or stopping anyone from attending church services is if they were causing trouble. But of course 1st you should try to straighten things out, them only after that fails ask them not to come back.

Anyone who would do so for any other reason would be completely out of order.

What better place for a lost person to be, than at a place that is preaching & teaching God's true pure Word.

Surely no church out there does anything behind the closed doors of church services that needs to be hid from the world and the lost people. I though only the masons do such stuff as that.

Scripture please for the highlighted portions.

As for your third paragraph: why should the only place a lost person can hear the gospel preached or the Bible taught be in the midst of an assembly of believers?

I am not, nor do I believe anyone else is, condoning secrecy or closed church services. The issue at hand is strictly evangelism as the focus during the assembly of believers.

[speerjp1]

I can't remember the exact verse or number (I will edit it when I find it) but didn't Jesus say the church is for the sick?

Would you be thinking of the passages surrounding Mark 2:17, Matthew 9:12, or Luke 5:31?

I've heard many euphemisms along the lines of what your saying, but none claimed as scripture.

Let me know if you find it.

[Revelation3:20]

Scripture please for the highlighted portions.

"Matthew 9:12-13 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

"1 Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?"


Acts 5:12-14 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them. And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)

We have to be careful about taking lessons from the book of Acts because it was a transitional time, but it is worthwhile to note that the church at Jerusalem at this point was meeting publicly at the temple in Solomon's porch and that lost people were getting saved by hearing the preaching. That is why the apostles were seized and told by the counsel "ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us." The chief priests would have cared very little if only believers had met in secret and focused only on bible study among themselves.

"1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

This verse teaches that one of the primary methods God uses to save the lost is preaching. Preaching does not have to be in the church but aside from street preaching church is where the majority of preaching occurs in our culture. I cannot fathom a pastor telling a lost person not to come to church until they get saved, it does not sound like the wisdom from above at all. Who is it that has an interest in limiting the contact the lost have with the truth of God anyway? The devil right?

[speerjp1]

"Matthew 9:12-13 But when Jesus heard that, he said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick. But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance."

"1 Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?"


Acts 5:12-14 And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them. And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)

We have to be careful about taking lessons from the book of Acts because it was a transitional time, but it is worthwhile to note that the church at Jerusalem at this point was meeting publicly at the temple in Solomon's porch and that lost people were getting saved by hearing the preaching. That is why the apostles were seized and told by the counsel "ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us." The chief priests would have cared very little if only believers had met in secret and focused only on bible study among themselves.

"1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."

This verse teaches that one of the primary methods God uses to save the lost is preaching. Preaching does not have to be in the church but aside from street preaching church is where the majority of preaching occurs in our culture. I cannot fathom a pastor telling a lost person not to come to church until they get saved, it does not sound like the wisdom from above at all. Who is it that has an interest in limiting the contact the lost have with the truth of God anyway? The devil right?

Let me reiterate that I am in no way against a lost person coming to church.

What I am trying to get to the bottom of is if it is right for an assembly of believers to be the primary place where evangelism takes place. Do not forget that the pastor that told the man not to come back to church actively pursued the man and dealt with him personally more than he would have had he allowed him to simply come to church and get comfortable in his religious form.

As for preaching: that is a whole other discussion. In the Bible, anyone who was declaring good news from God to man was a preacher. In our day, the only person who is "preaching" is a pastor or evangelist. Some have even taken 1 Corinthians 1 and 2 so far out of context that they teach that pastors should act foolish in order to fulfill the teaching that the "foolishness of preaching" was chosen by God to save the lost. Wrong.

Any time a person tells the good news of Jesus' redeeming work, that person is preaching the gospel. In the eyes of this world, that will always be foolishness.

If we start doing things God's way, a lot more things we Christians do are going to seem like foolishness to this world and since so much worldly wisdom has found its way into our churches, those things will seem foolish to professing Christians and church members.

[amblivion]

While I agree the church is for equipping the saints, in no way would my church stop a lost person from attending the church services. In fact, I am pretty sure we have a person who is lost coming to our church. He has been coming to Sunday School and church services for a month now. One of the members of our church witnessed to him outside of the church doors and then invited him to church. He decided to come. He is hearing the pure word of God being spoken and the gospel message. God works in His heart not man. We do not know when the day of salvation may be for any person. While our church member witnesses to him outside of the church he also gets it inside the church doors.

For the records, this person would never become a member of our church until they are saved and baptized.

[amblivion]

Sorry, I didn't see your post because I was writing mine when you posted. I can't edit it either. I do not think church should be the primary place for evangelism.

[Revelation3:20]

Let me reiterate that I am in no way against a lost person coming to church.

What I am trying to get to the bottom of is if it is right for an assembly of believers to be the primary place where evangelism takes place. Do not forget that the pastor that told the man not to come back to church actively pursued the man and dealt with him personally more than he would have had he allowed him to simply come to church and get comfortable in his religious form.

I do not believe that the church is the "primary" place for evangelism to the exclusion of other means but I do believe that a lost person should be able to attend church and if he does there should be no doubt that the gospel will be touched on at least briefly. Wouldn't it be sad for a lost person to visit a church and leave with no more idea of what was needed to be saved than when he came. I do think that pastor was very wrong to tell the lost man not to attend church but I am glad it worked out anyway. I don't see how that mans attendance would have got him "comfortable in his religious form" because any decent bible believing church will touch on the requirements for salvation from time to time and will teach that church attendance isn't going to help you get to heaven. The sword of the Spirit is the word of God and the more scripture a lost person hears the more tools the Lord has to convict his heart. Not to mention a bible believing church is going to require a that a new member understand salvation and have a clear biblical testimony of turning to God before they can actually join the church.

As for preaching: that is a whole other discussion. In the Bible, anyone who was declaring good news from God to man was a preacher. In our day, the only person who is "preaching" is a pastor or evangelist. Some have even taken 1 Corinthians 1 and 2 so far out of context that they teach that pastors should act foolish in order to fulfill the teaching that the "foolishness of preaching" was chosen by God to save the lost. Wrong.

Any time a person tells the good news of Jesus' redeeming work, that person is preaching the gospel. In the eyes of this world, that will always be foolishness.

If we start doing things God's way, a lot more things we Christians do are going to seem like foolishness to this world.

Generally when the term preacher is used in the NT it carries the idea of a public herald or a proclamation to a group. Individual one on one evangelism would not be the same thing as preaching although it is also important. If it were the same thing 1 Corinthians 9:14 would make no sense since every Christian is called to share the gospel one on one when there is the opportunity and the leading of the Spirit. Yes, any believer can preach if they wish and it isn't limited to pastors, missionary's or "evangelists" and yes teaching that a preacher must deliberately act foolish is a serious misunderstanding of 1 Corinthians 1:21.

[speerjp1]

Thanks for your input.

I honestly want to be in line with God's word on this.

I think a lot of what it will come down to will be whether or not to encourage lost folks to attend church regularly regardless of whether they are under conviction or if they are acquiring a form of religion. That's where prayer and biblical and spiritual discernment will have to guide us.

If a person is known to be lost and is attending a church without becoming "religious" or led into a false sense of security when it comes to eternal things, that person should be allowed to continue to attend.

If a person is known to be lost and is attending church and is therefore becoming a religious person who has turned over a new leaf and seems satisfied with his spiritual condition, I see no reason not to rattle that comfort by asking them not to return.

Also, remember in the real life example that I used, the person who was asked not to return got saved shortly thereafter.

In addition to these things remember that our Supreme Example never invited a person into the temple in order for them to receive salvation. He always went to the lost where they were in order to evangelize. I know that the church didn't exist as we know it at that time, but I think we can glean something from his example.

And when Paul wrote his letters to the churches, he never admonished them toward evangelism during their meetings. He laid down some guidelines for the benefit of the lost onlookers (implying that is normal and acceptable for lost to be in attendance during a meeting of believers), but never hinted that the church's evangelistic efforts should be any different than the Great Commission's command to go into all the world and preach the gospel.

[bzmomo7]

Wow, I would think that if a preacher is preaching the whole Bible and not just the light stuff, that an unsaved person would be so uncomfortable spiritually that he'd eventually either leave or repent on his own.

[Seth Doty]

Wow, I would think that if a preacher is preaching the whole Bible and not just the light stuff, that an unsaved person would be so uncomfortable spiritually that he'd eventually either leave or repent on his own.

That has been what I have seen too.

[speerjp1]

I do not believe that the church is the "primary" place for evangelism to the exclusion of other means but I do believe that a lost person should be able to attend church and if he does there should be no doubt that the gospel will be touched on at least briefly. Wouldn't it be sad for a lost person to visit a church and leave with no more idea of what was needed to be saved than when he came. I do think that pastor was very wrong to tell the lost man not to attend church but I am glad it worked out anyway. I don't see how that mans attendance would have got him "comfortable in his religious form" because any decent bible believing church will touch on the requirements for salvation from time to time and will teach that church attendance isn't going to help you get to heaven. The sword of the Spirit is the word of God and the more scripture a lost person hears the more tools the Lord has to convict his heart. Not to mention a bible believing church is going to require a that a new member understand salvation and have a clear biblical testimony of turning to God before they can actually join the church.

I can see how: Jeremiah 17:9 says "The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?"

I find it interesting that you can determine that the pastor was wrong given your limited knowledge of the situation. Be careful here.

Generally when the term preacher is used in the NT it carries the idea of a public herald or a proclamation to a group. Individual one on one evangelism would not be the same thing as preaching although it is also important. If it were the same thing 1 Corinthians 9:14 would make no sense since every Christian is called to share the gospel one on one when there is the opportunity and the leading of the Spirit. Yes, any believer can preach if they wish and it isn't limited to pastors, missionary's or "evangelists" and yes teaching that a preacher must deliberately act foolish is a serious misunderstanding of 1 Corinthians 1:21.

The word preacher is used 4 times in the NT and each time it simply means "one who proclaims." Yes, some are ordained to preach in a special place or for a special purpose or to a certain people, but that doesn't negate the fact that preaching the gospel is for all believers. It is not the "preaching" that is ordained for certain men, it is the "purpose" in preaching that is ordained. This is why a young man such as myself will preach the gospel to the lost, preach in area churches, and preach in nursing homes, but I will not be ordained as a preacher until I am sent for a particular purpose, be it pastor, missionary, or evangelist. Such ones should live of the gospel.

The word preach of itself carries no such denotation. It simply means "to proclaim." In the NT, preaching typically applies particularly to the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ. That is in the purview of every believer.

[speerjp1]

Amen Seth and bzmom!!