The economy and the church

[Pastor Matt]

Has the bad economy had a major impact on your church? Have you had to cut back on things? If so, what are you doing to overcome that?

[JerryNumbers]

Has the bad economy had a major impact on your church? Have you had to cut back on things? If so, what are you doing to overcome that?

It has not. So far, thankfully, around our area we have not been hit hard.

But I noticed something that I've never seen before, on the front parking lot of the bank I use, as we passed it coming home from church, they had 5 pickup trucks which had been repossessed with for sale signs on them. That is highly usual.

We've only had one business shut down, they made dump truck beds, that I know of. But they had been on rocky ground for some time. I think it was a jOB loss of about 100 to 200, but seems they were up to over 300 at one time.

A business that I think is called : ELECTROLUX HOME PRODUCTS, they've changed names a time of 2, they had operations in a city about 36 miles west of us, shut it down and moved it to our town and their home plant for economic reasons. I heard that was 150 plus jOBs

I might add, other towns around us that are about our size to a bit larger has not done so good.

All of that said, if it things stay on this course, I don't believe it will be long before we start feeling it quite hard.

My opinion only, but most people around here do not seemed to have slowed down on buying houses, cars, and such, I fear some of these are going to get in over their neck.

[pastorrvbc]

I don't know if it was the economy or the fact we had one of those years in 2009. We saw a couple of families leave, families who were great givers. Not over anything controversial, just for one reason or another.

I know that I've heard time and time again, that the only surefire way to increase finances in a church is to increase membership (easier said than done, I know). That is the focus we are taking this year. I am entering my third year as the pastor, by the grace of God, and we are making even more of a concerted effort to reach out to the community, witness, see people trust Christ, and Lord-willing, join our church. That is the only thing I know to do to fix things financially. We've already cut back on every possible thing we can.

And, prayer, of course. Prayer is the most important thing in this regard. But it is tough. I know many of our families are having a lot of difficulty because of the economy. But our God is greater than the economy and can give/supply our needs far greater than we can ever provide for ourselves. I think we ought to make it a point this year to increase our giving to the Lord.

(Malachi 3:10) Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

Let's prove God; let's put Him to the test this year and show others that the economy is nothing compared to the provision of God!

[Anon]

We've had a few financial struggles but I don't think it was so much the economy as much as it was other things.

[chev1958]

We didn't have much to start with, so the economy has had no impact.

[king of grace baptist]

here in las Vegas we have been hit hard by the low economy,

we have only just began to start our church about 4 months now in that time we have lead many individuals to the Lord. a few of which who where coming faithful and would have made a good church member but had to leave town because of no work, these where the construction type of people.

one family also (single woman raising a family) who came by loved the church but by the time she found us was already one her way out of town because of the economy here in las Vegas...

with our type of ministry, (which reaches out to mostly reaches to the poor lame and halt, those that have been chewed up and spit out because of sin) we see some souls that truly get saved, but oft times the individuals have for so long cultivated a life of no character and avoiding responsibility, that they get in a little and then continue to drift, because being unstable has been a part of them for so long.

therefor when people who have not come off the streets get saved and leave town because of the economy. it has an effect on us especially be cause we are just beginning this work.

on the other side a good church in town good friends of ours, (or you might say some what of a sister church) bible baptist church has lost about 3 families, yet in there last mission conference there faith promise giving increased exceedingly.

also there is another church in Virgina (spring city baptist church) that recently had a church spit 1 week before the mission conference, lost 10 families yet still increased it's giving exceedingly.
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I personally think that the Lord may be preparing the church in the USA to learn to walk by faith. the Lord loves his churches in the USA and after he turns the heat up and she comes through these trials and sees that the Lord's hand is able to provide, she will love her Lord more, especially when some of the dross is removed from her heart. then by faith we will please the Lord better (hebrews 11:6)

just a thought: why wouldn't the Lord purify his church (in the USA) by trials of faith before he takes her home ?

i'm thinking of a couple scriptures right now:
1cor 5:5 that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
luke 8:18 ..Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
2Tim 4:22 The Lord Jesus Christ be with thy spirit. Grace be with you. Amen.

could it be that weakened faith in Christians in the USA is a leaven that has arisen be comes of much prosperity?

and if so would it not be a blessing to suffer a while in order to glorify God with more pure faith?

1pet 5:10-11 But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you. To him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. context: resiting the devil by being stead fast in the faith

maybe as a whole not individually, but as a whole we are laking "this grace" wail we stand in "the faith"

2Cor 8:7-8 Therefore, as ye abound in every thing, in faith, and utterance, and knowledge, and in all diligence, and in your love to us, see that ye abound in this grace also... to prove the sincerity of your love.context: the grace of God bestowed on the church of Macedonia

think about it what was the econemy of the church of Macedonia like? and are not they our example of "this Grace" ?

Eph 6:24Grace be with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen.

what if God choose to prove the sincerity of our love in the church in the USA

if we are not careful we will get to looking at the works of our church as fruit instead of the fruits of the grace of our hearts. God looks at the whole, the big picture, at the heart, sometimes we tend to miss the forest for the trees, here under the sun.

just a few thought i had here, you don't mind do you ? lol i did not intend to post all that but maybe it will be a blessing to someone out there...

Edited November 9, 2010 by king of grace baptist

[king of grace baptist]

i hope you will enjoy this short article from brother Sutek


HARD TIMES VS GOD’S ECONOMY

I first traveled to Europe in 1991 and since then have lived here for a total of nine years. In Europe in ’91 there were as many different currencies and economies as there were countries. This meant that if you traveled any significant distance you would run into money complications with each change of economy. This is still largely true in Eastern Europe. I have traveled recently with four different currencies in my pocket. This is nothing less than confusion (1Cor. 14:33).

WORLD’S ECONOMIES NOT SIMPLE
My support comes mainly in U.S. dollars, but I pay my rent in Euros. We buy our groceries with Romanian Lei. When I travel to Hungary I exchange for Florint, to Moldova for Lei, to Slovakia for Koruny, to Great Britain for Pounds, to the Philippines for Pesos (are you confused yet?). I have to exchange for each of these currencies in order to function under each country’s economy. It is neither simple nor cheap to exchange money and you lose money EVERY TIME.

GOD’S ECONOMY IS SECURE
Well, I have good news for Christians who trust God (Pr. 3:5,6). God has His own economy, and anyone desiring to exchange the world’s economy for God’s economy only stands to gain. Like all things associated with God, the exchange is Simple, Stable and Substantive (Pr. 8:21).

The world’s economy is summed up in a few words, “Get all you can; keep all you get”. But many years ago I made the switch from Hagai 1:6 to Luke 6:38 (go ahead and look them up). God’s economy makes absolutely no sense to the world; but then the world’s economy makes absolutely no sense to God.

FIRST ESSENTIAL…GIVING
There are three basic, but essential components that must be in place in order for God’s people to operate on God’s economy.

1. 1. BOUNTIFUL BENEVOLENCE
2. 2. BLACK INK
3. 3. BEING CONTENT
   

Pardon me, I must use my family as an example because I know no other’s personal finances. I learned to tithe while serving under Dr. BOB Gray back in 1969. On my particular jOB, I got paid in cash about every hour (this would be both difficult and needless to explain). This made it easy to spend but I found it hard to find any tithe left on Sunday. So I disciplined myself to put a tenth of my hourly pay into a jar every hour and set it aside. It was an extra trouble, but in doing this I found a treasure, that being Philippians 4:19. This verse is not a magical verse for everyone in any circumstance and for all occasions. It worked, rather, for those who were faithful to supply Paul’s needs as a missionary; read verse fifteen in the context. Soon, after learning the basic of tithing, I learned to give to missions above my tithe. Our family’s missions giving has only grown and has never diminished through the years, so that although we, too, are missionaries on the foreign field our family missions giving would rival some small churches’ missions giving.

When the good Lord directed us to serve Him as missionaries in Northern Ireland, we had the lowest income of any missionary on our mission board. We tithed first and promised to remain faithful in our committed support of many missionaries. Northern Ireland was a very expensive place to live: e.g., when we exchanged our dollars into pounds we cut our income in half. Then, when we went to the grocery store, we cut it in half again. Gas prices in NI in 1991 equaled five dollars a gallon. We never went hungry, we had all that we needed, and we never were short on gas for the ministry. We traveled throughout the entire island and also traveled to some extent on mainland Europe, preaching publickly the glorious gospel. Luke 6:38 works!

Missions giving is very much a Bible principle and is very much blessed by the Lord. The good Lord also has very much to say in His Black Book about benevolence to the “poor”, “widows”, and “the fatherless”. We struggled with finding the “poor” as we served the Lord in America, i.e., just who are the poor and how can you really tell if their requests are genuine? This dilemma was quickly solved when we traveled to the Philippines, Mexico, and Eastern Europe. In these areas, the poor are much easier to distinguish. We asked the Lord to show us who was truly poor, and when He did, we gave. We were faithful to support the widows of graduated missionaries who were on our list. We faithfully support orphans in two different third world countries. These important ingredients add much nutrition to those in subjection to God’s economy.
Pro 10:4 He becometh poor that dealeth with a slack hand: but the hand of the diligent maketh rich.


BLACK INK
God’s economy does not mix with the world’s economy. You must choose one or the other. You cannot use the world’s economy to tickle your fancies by using credit, then turn to God and expect Him to pay off your credit cards with interest. For example, the next time you want to buy something on credit, walk into the loan office and give the loan officer your Christian testimony first. Then tell him you are a Bible believer and that you know Philippians 4:19 works and that Heb. 13:8 is true…butttttt then say, “Would you please loan me the money for this item, because evidently the Lord doesn’t want me to have it now. He may not want me to have it at all, but I don’t care. I want it now, and I will agree to pay you any amount of interest that you demand.” You might as well be honest about it. After all, if you lie to them, or to yourself, you will just have that much more to answer for at the judgment seat of Christ. God pays sin debts, but He is not OBligated to pay for presumptuous violations of His economy. Many Bible verses deal with the violations of His economic rules and the dangers of indebtedness, but Romans 13:8 settles the matter.

GOD’S ECONOMY SIMPLY WILL NOT WORK…
if you leave out the vitally important ingredient of contentment. The world’s economy is generated by the constant frustration of discontentment. Every advertisement is a malicious, aggressive act of war against contentment (Hebrews 13:8, Philippians 4:11, 1 Tim. 6:6-8). The battle rages as the relentless enemy routs weak, adulterous (James 4:4) Christians who are continuously, and willingly, deceived by a world that is never satisfied. Discontentment with what a loving, all-knowing, and all caring Master and Saviour has freely provided is nothing short of a self-imposed addiction. Most Christians could not sing the hymn, I AM SATISFIED without lying, even if their salvation depended on it.

GOD’S STABLE ECONOMY
Prudential Life Insurance Company advertised by showing a picture of the Rock of Gibraltar. The caption read, “Get a piece of the Rock for your car…home…etc.” Well, one of the best advertisements for God’s economy is that it is built upon the Solid Rock --and the world’s rock is not Our Rock (Dt. 32:31). God’s economy has always been, and will always be, stable.

Missionaries are always concerned about the exchange rates. Americans are paranoid about gas prices. Worldly investors check daily on the price of gold and the Dow Jones Average (whatever that is). Yet the Lord’s fingernails remain unmarred in the midst of any oil catastrophe, political wrangling, hurricane, or earthquake. Did you ever wonder why the stock market suddenly goes down because there is a recall of widgets or another uprising in Tibet? Where is the connection? Don’t you realize that the Mafia manipulates the stock market, inflating and dropping values as it profits them? Who can possibly understand the decisions of the Federal Regulatory Commission? Don’t fool yourself; their machinations and manufactured confusions are beyond the understanding of a graduate economist and are designed to play a vital part in the coming One World Economy. If you think that any government or investment company has your best economic interest at heart, you are not loving the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ. Maybe if you had your investments in God’s economy, you might read His reports and check on the price of God’s gold first thing every morning just as you read the news for the Dow report.

ZERO UNEMPLOYMENT
Who ever heard of zero unemployment? God! God is an equal opportunity employer and has a permanent sign outside His office reading, “NOW HIRING”. I hear there is double digit unemployment in the good ole’ USA. In some areas the unemployment has soared upwards to 20%. Oh, my! What will we do? Even Christians are having a hard time finding a jOB. So you are out of a jOB and you have looked everywhere. God has a solution for you, if you want it. Go to the good Lord and tell Him your plight. Be honest, and convince Him that you have sincerely tried to find work, but it simply doesn’t exist close to where your good church is located. Then get a box of tracts and hop on your teenager’s mountain bike (that he doesn’t use anymore) and go pass out tracts with the same work ethic with which you served the world. Do you really think God is going to use your services without giving you proper wages? You’re nuts! Man is the one who violates clear scripture…not God.
Jer 22:13 Woe unto him that buildeth his house by unrighteousness, and his chambers by wrong; that useth his neighbour's service without wages, and giveth him not for his work;

Written by Gerald Sutek Th.D., Ph.D.
A foreign missionary serving the good Lord by faith.
www.streetpreaching.com