Is Wine Good for You?

[HappyChristian]

Instead of just using Proverbs, could you post all the verses in the NT that talk about wine and explain them?

so if it's OT we can do away with it?

[Crushmaster]

Amazing what the liquor business will claim to get people to buy their products, many will fall for it, even many Christians, they rather trust man, than God, the old devil is very sneaky. If the old devil can get many well meaning Christians to fall for it, they will be many who will be influence by them and wine will be their downfall destroying their life and their families.

Pr 20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

Pr 23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.

Pr 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.

Gregg your right, its destroyed many families, and sad to say many Christians will let the stuff flow down their throats while their influence will be leading some to destruction.

Sir, and all who hold to the belief that wine, rather, all alcohol is wrong to consume, even in moderation, please take note of what I have bolded.

(Proverbs 20:1) - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

Deceived thereby? That means drunkenness.

(Proverbs 23:29-35) - "Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? {30} They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. {31} Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. {32} At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. {33} Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. {34} Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. {35} They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again."

Woe? Sorrow? Contentions? Babbling? Wounds without cause? Redness of eyes? Tarrying long at the wine? Beholding strange women? Heart uttering perverse things? They've stricken you, and you're not sick? They've beaten you, and you felt it not? When shall I awake, I will seek it yet again?

What is the continuing line here? Drunkenness. Not consuming wine in moderation.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[amblivion]

I don't buy the "wine in the Bible was actually water and a little bit of wine" argument. It doesn't make sense historically or Biblically. Look up the history of wine and see if there is anyone out there except ultra-conservative Christians who would make that same argument.

If wine was actually 8 parts water, there would be no reason to warn against it. You couldn't get drunk if you tried. You would be dead of taking in too much water before you would get drunk. Why would Paul warn against bishops being drinkers of "much wine" if you couldn't get drunk off of it? "Bishops shouldn't be drinkers of much wine because they'll spend too much time in the bathroom instead of serving the church."

I believe it does fit into Scripture quite well. When the Bible speaks of wine we have to make three different distinctions. There is wine that people could get drunk off of. There is their everyday wine that was watered down, and then there is just plain old grape juice. The watered down theory makes sense to me. Now the question is which wine is the Bible written about in different places? Also, if you read the article the author named historical evidence as to wine being watered down. I think you should take a better look.

Instead, wine mixed with water was seen as impurity in the Bible. Take a look at Isaiah 1:22:
Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water.

Interesting that you will use the Old Testament when it leans in your favor, but when it does not you reject it.

[Crushmaster]

I believe it does fit into Scripture quite well. When the Bible speaks of wine we have to make three different distinctions. There is wine that people could get drunk off of. There is their everyday wine that was watered down' date=' and then there is just plain old grape juice. The watered down theory makes sense to me. Now the question is which wine is the Bible written about in different places? Also, if you read the article the author named historical evidence as to wine being watered down. I think you should take a better look. [/quote']
Woah, woah, woah. Wine is wine. Grape juice is not wine. Non-alcoholic wine is not wine...it's grape juice.

If they meant grape juice, either in the Old or the New Testaments, the Lord would have lead them to write that. But He didn't, because it was literally and fully wine.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[kevinmiller]

@Kevin, I drink tea and soda mostly. Tea cost 3 tea bags and some splenda for a whole pitcher. Soda cost .25 a can if you buy on sale, so a 10 dollar bottle of wine is expensive, as is a 1.25 dollar beer.

That's true. When I was in China, you could get a 20 oz. bottle of beer for 50 cents, though. lol

[Crushmaster]

I don't buy the "wine in the Bible was actually water and a little bit of wine" argument. It doesn't make sense historically or Biblically. Look up the history of wine and see if there is anyone out there except ultra-conservative Christians who would make that same argument.

Just for the record, Kevin, this has nothing to do with being conservative or liberal. At all. Just the opposite, I would daresay.
(Sorry - I was going to edit this into my most recent post, but editing is disabled).
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[kevinmiller]

so if it's OT we can do away with it?

No, but let's face it, a lot of the OT IS done away with. I'm just saying that it's easy to post verses from Proverbs that at face value seem to be discouraging wine, which as Joel has pointed out, are discouraging drunkeness, while the NT is much more clear on the intake of wine in moderation.

[HappyChristian]

You need to do some studying as to what the words are, Crush. You are very wrong. Check out the Hebrew and Greek words and you'll see.

[kevinmiller]

Sir, and all who hold to the belief that wine, rather, all alcohol is wrong to consume, even in moderation, please take note of what I have bolded.

(Proverbs 20:1) - "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."

Deceived thereby? That means drunkenness.

(Proverbs 23:29-35) - "Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? {30} They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. {31} Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. {32} At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. {33} Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. {34} Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. {35} They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again."

Woe? Sorrow? Contentions? Babbling? Wounds without cause? Redness of eyes? Tarrying long at the wine? Beholding strange women? Heart uttering perverse things? They've stricken you, and you're not sick? They've beaten you, and you felt it not? When shall I awake, I will seek it yet again?

What is the continuing line here? Drunkenness. Not consuming wine in moderation.
God bless,
Crushmaster.

[HappyChristian]

No, but let's face it, a lot of the OT IS done away with. I'm just saying that it's easy to post verses from Proverbs that at face value seem to be discouraging wine, which as Joel has pointed out, are discouraging drunkeness, while the NT is much more clear on the intake of wine in moderation.

No -the only thing done away with in the OT is the ceremonial law which pointed people to Christ. The principles found within the OT are still good.

[kevinmiller]

I believe it does fit into Scripture quite well. When the Bible speaks of wine we have to make three different distinctions. There is wine that people could get drunk off of. There is their everyday wine that was watered down, and then there is just plain old grape juice. The watered down theory makes sense to me. Now the question is which wine is the Bible written about in different places? Also, if you read the article the author named historical evidence as to wine being watered down. I think you should take a better look.

Take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bramwell_Welch

He invented the method for preventing the fermentation of grape juice. I'm sure all of us would recognize the name. Everyone knows Welch's grape juice, after all. Guess what was used in communion before that time? Wine. Guess what they used in the Bible? Wine.

Unless they drank it fresh off the vine,which would've been at only a certain period of time during the year, it was wine. You can't pick and choose what is wine and what is grape juice in the Bible. Unless it says "new wine," we are safe to assume that wine is wine is wine.

[kevinmiller]

No -the only thing done away with in the OT is the ceremonial law which pointed people to Christ. The principles found within the OT are still good.

The principles, perhaps, yes, but the law is done away with, Christ made that clear.

[Crushmaster]

You need to do some studying as to what the words are, Crush. You are very wrong. Check out the Hebrew and Greek words and you'll see.

"G3631
???????
oinos
oy'-nos
A primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin [H3196]);

[amblivion]

No -the only thing done away with in the OT is the ceremonial law which pointed people to Christ. The principles found within the OT are still good.

I am going to give you a good hearty Amen (so be it)!!

Anyways I do want to point out that it is not fair to tell them to study from a non-IFB perspective. I have not been an IFB for nine years and have come to the same conclusion as them. After going to college I started leaning towards drinking in moderation, but after studying and talking with a former Greek professor at my church, I decided it wasn't a good thing.

[HappyChristian]

Take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Bramwell_Welch

He invented the method for preventing the fermentation of grape juice. I'm sure all of us would recognize the name. Everyone knows Welch's grape juice, after all. Guess what was used in communion before that time? Wine. Guess what they used in the Bible? Wine.

Unless they drank it fresh off the vine,which would've been at only a certain period of time during the year, it was wine. You can't pick and choose what is wine and what is grape juice in the Bible. Unless it says "new wine," we are safe to assume that wine is wine is wine.

Not necessarily, Kevin. Wine meant different things. And the fermenting process wasn't quite the same as that used with wine nowadays. Now we use yeast to create alcohol. Grapes naturally ferment - they rot. As it sits longer, it becomes very sour, hence the Bible referring to what they gave Christ as vinegar. There is a VERY little natural alcohol in grapes.

BTW - vinegar is really good for digestive prOBlems too.