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29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. This is the most often used passage I see for people to try and prove that the rapture takes place after the 7 years of tribulation. However this is impossible and I will show how. Many people will say that vs 31 refers to the Rapture, I argue that God is gathering his elect Jews back into the land of Israel, for further study you can see this in mutiple places, especially the latter portions of the book of Ezekiel. But there is a more serious reason and problem with a Post Tribulation Rapture. Premise #1 at the Rapture, believers are given new glorified bodies 1 Th 4: 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1st Corinthians 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. Premise 2 No lost person will enter into the 1,000 year reign of Christ at it's beginning Matthew 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. 41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. Premise 3 Children will be born during the Millennial reign Ezekiel 47: 22 And it shall come to pass, that ye shall divide it by lot for an inheritance unto you, and to the strangers that sojourn among you, which shall beget children among you: and they shall be unto you as born in the country among the children of Israel; they shall have inheritance with you among the tribes of Israel. Premise 4 Glorified bodies do not reproduce children Matthew 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Conclusion If the Post Trib Rapture theory were correct, this would mean that at the end of the 7 year tribulation period when Christ returns, all of his Saints will receive glorified bodies because they claim this is also when the rapture takes place, after this the separation of the sheep and goats takes place all those who are lost and unbelievers in Christ will be cast away to hell at this time, That would leave us with not a single person left on earth in a natural body, and therefore it would be impossible for children to be born. the Post Tribulation Rapture theory makes children being born in the Millenial Kingdom an impossibility.
JEREMIAH 49... I don't see a lot of eschatology being discussed here (other than the millennial kingdom) recently... so I decided to go out on a limb and start a discussion about Jeremiah 49. I wanted to focus on the specific passages of 35-39, and most specifically upon verse 36. "And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come." SOMETHING is going to happen in Iran (specifically where Elam used to be which is in what is now Iran). It is an area ***"stretching from the lowlands of what is now Khuzestan and Ilam Province as well as a small part of southern Iraq." (*** land description taken from wikipedia... see also map below) I realize that Persia is also listed in Ezekiel 38-39 as one of the nations which is included in the confederacy against Israel. I do not think it is likely that is part of Ezekiel's prophecy in ch. 38-39, but I do think it COULD precede it, and possibly be a factor in why Persia is listed in the Ezekiel 38-39 confederacy (although the reasons for Ez. 38-39 are more about "taking a spoil") So back to Jeremiah 49 SOMETHING will happen to cause THIS: "... I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come." My thought is that it's possible that Iran will attempt to attack Israel. Israel will defend herself and isn't it amazing that the Bushehr site in Iran (the very site the nuclear reactor is located) is smack dab in the area where Elam was? Not saying it HAS TO happen that way... and I'm not saying the event HAS to be nuclear... I am just that it COULD happen that way. Whatever happens the Lord will be in control of the situation. It does not have to be nuclear, it could be any number of events...and it will be of God's will. Whatever happens (nuclear or not) will cause these things to happen (which have not YET happened to a total fulfillment in history): 1. The Lord "will bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven," 2. "and will scatter them toward all those winds;" 3. "and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come." History tells us that Elam was conquered by the Assyrian empire and then later by the Medo-Persian empire.However, that did not drive out all of those people who lived there, but instead they were then under the control of the Medo-Persian empires control, but most continued to live in that same area of land (even though under the rulership of the Medo-Persian empire). So I do not believe that being conquered by the Medo-Persian empire fulfills this prophecy since they were not driven off the land, they were not scattered to the 4 quarters, and they haven't (yet) been scattered to all nations. Elam is now a part of modern-day Iran. (and in that part of Iran there is a nuclear reactor as well as current plans for the Iranians to build more) I conclude these verses are future events (possibly soon). I also would further conclude that verses 38-39 will be fulfilled at an even later time (the millennial reign) because there certainly is NOT a throne of the Lord in Elam, nor has there ever been in past history. The only other place in the Bible that a (future) earthly throne of the Lord is mentioned is in reference to Jerusalem. So while I do not claim to have any idea exactly what the throne of the Lord in Elam will be... nor the reason why... I do believe it is true, because the word of God IS true! Every past prophecy which was fulfilled was fulfilled exactly as prophecied, to the letter, Which means all future prophecy will also be fulfilled exactly as prophecied. I am only giving my opinion of what COULD cause them to be scattered to the 4 quarters, and scattered unto every nation. That said... God cannot be boxed into "logical human reasoning" because His ways are far above our ways. So I am not stating it HAS to be a nuclear event... it is just a possibility of what could occur to cause such a scattering. 35 "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Behold, I will break the bow of Elam, the chief of their might. 36 "And upon Elam will I bring the four winds from the four quarters of heaven, and will scatter them toward all those winds; and there shall be no nation whither the outcasts of Elam shall not come. 37 "For I will cause Elam to be dismayed before their enemies, and before them that seek their life: and I will bring evil upon them, even my fierce anger, saith the Lord; and I will send the sword after them, till I have consumed them: 38 "And I will set my throne in Elam, and will destroy from thence the king and the princes, saith the Lord. 39 "But it shall come to pass in the latter days, that I will bring again the captivity of Elam, saith the Lord. map image (taken from wikipedia) for the location of where Elam was: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elam#/media/File:Elam_Map.jpg What say ye all?