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You consistently post about certain parties catching up with another group but don't back this up with solid, variable statistics. I agree with some of your points on discernment, especially when it comes to those on tithing and the pastors knowledge of who does and doesn't di so. Also on the voting on issues concerning the church. We are members of a church that will change business meetings around when it comes to his not having the votes though a quorum is there. It's happened to us several times in the past seven years. This is one of the many reasons we have been searching for a new church home. Many churches here in the Bible Belt are swaying, sad to say, but there are some that are still standing firm. Some need to be sure that the "discernment" that they're using is of God and not just because of conflicted and confused personal opinions.

Discernment is the ability to perceive, understand, and judge things clearly, especially those that are not obvious or straightforward. I love those pastors that have the ability to preach and serve correctly. I can immediately tell when there’s a pastor that controls not just the church, but it’s members and everything that is happening in the church. example, if the pastor of the church knows which members are tithing and which ones are not, this is a flag. Another example if you attend the church members meeting and they ask you to vote for something, but your vote really doesn’t count, for the decision was already made. This is a flag. The biggest example will pprobably be those members that are chosen or there’s favoritism on their behalf from the leader, for the members that are yes sir, away, even if it is not correct. These are blind Christians, with no discernment. A good pastor can not be a show off, but humble, and he admits that he’s not perfect and counts on the body of Christ, for their assistance. there’s some good news. There are many good pastors out there, but the bad ones are rapidly catching up.

I was doing informal bible college with an independent missionary Baptist church. The idea was to make it official.. but in the end the pastor running it left to plant another church before it was official. Anyway.. I learned key doctrine and which scripture backs it up... like the church being local, eternal security, the Triune God, local church ordinances of tithing and the Lords Supper and the premillineal return of Christ.

I have never agreed with the Baptist church that removes 10 percent from their employee's salary. I do support the local church and their employees should tithe, if they want to do so. This is just my opinion, you can tell this is being done, for they (employees) never put anything in the offering plate, when it passed by. ?

I've never heard of a church taking tithing out of staffs salary...but I'm sure it does happen in churches like Seventh Day Adventists where Old Testament tithing is still emphasized. I know I've noticed over the years exactly what you are talking about. I would notice how a deacon or other member would not put anything in the offering plate weekly. I realized later that instead of paying weekly they would often just write one check that included the entire months tithes. There is a non baptist church I used to attend occasionally and in that church they didn't believe in Pastors being a paid position. When I did visit I almost always sat in the same row as the Pastor and several times when I would get the offering plate the Pastors check would be laying in it opened and I couldn't help but noticed that he always gave 80$ a week despite not being paid for his role. I was impressed by his generosity. I've never been to an IFB that practiced tithing. I remember one of the deacons talking to me about it one time and in his view it was a free will offering of each member and in many cases they would give even more than if they followed a ten percent tithe. As for the staff...other than the Pastor, Associate Pastor, and the Secretary all the other positions were just part time roles each week while they held employment elsewhere...but in most cases the church staff would also work at the K-12 school in some capacity so they could make a living with in the "ministry" of the church.

The principle for tithing is there for all, including pastors. But let's be nitpicky for a minute... do you tithe on the amount of time you have each day, week, month, or year? For ever day alone that's a minimum of 2.4 hours. Do you spend 2.4 hours a day doing the Lord's work...just the Lord's work, nobody else's? It's highly doubtful that most people who name the name of Christ do this. Pastors are on call 24 hours a day seven days a week. Let's go a bit further...some are provided with housing for little or no cost. What's it valued at? How much would their housing payments be, not to mention that some congregations provide utilities and car allowances, and some even car and health insurance. So, Morales, how are you going to guage all that and decide what they owe in tithe? To be honest, friend, you seem to worry about other people's money and tithing habits than anyone I know. The Bible gives us an example of someone in Christs own circle named Judas...he was in control of the money, and he was reprimanded by Christ for raising a ruckus when someone was using expensive ointment to wipe Jesus feet with her hair. The Bible tells us that he didn't care about the poor people he mentioned, but was worried about that money because he controlled the purse strings and was a thief. I'm not saying that you're a thief, but, I am saying you worry far too much about what other people do with their money.

Tithing on the last days. I know that some here will not agree. Churches that do not manage their tithing and offering well, members should stop supporting there. Give to those who manage it correctly. For example, a church putting a new sign in front. It cost, 10 times more, than the one already there. This is not helping Jesus at all, or His ministry. Don't feel you have to support all the bad decisions that they make. Just don't give ? Help is needed everywhere, give wisely

As the end times are getting much closer, is it really necessary to give all the tithe to the church. I know that there are bills to be paid, in the church. But when there is so much need around us, is it a sin to give a brother in need part of your tithe. I don't think Jesus, would get mad for you helping someone in need. Am I lost christian, by doing this? Some churches have shown down completely with this COVID, on there out reach ministry's. Tithe and offerings not being put to work. P.S Don't tell your pastor, he might get mad.

Many preachers these days won't preach on tithing. For many of them it is a "touchy subject" as it's been put to me. Do you believe that the Bible teaches that Christians should tithe? If so, why? If NOT, why? Just a word on the experiences that my wife and I have had with tithing, and the many blessings we've received by doing so. When we were younger we didn't tithe, and our paychecks never seemed to cover all of our needs. We always seemed to have too much month at the end of the money! My wife and I started talking about tithing one Sunday afternoon, and we agreed that we would follow the preachers advice from that Sunday. He made a very good case for tithing from the Scriptures. We've been tithing for many years now, and even when things seem like they're going to be touch, and that we might not have enough money coming in, the Lord always provides. God has kept us and supplied for all of our needs..and without a paycheck for four weeks, and with the company holding up my wifes short-term disability payments while she had Covid, we thought we were going to have to dip into savings or take out an emergency withdrawal from her 401K. That didn't happen, and we're pretty much back on track without the STD check. God has been faithful to His word!

I'm not sure how paid Pastors typically pay tithing. In the case of the lead Pastor especially....I'm not even sure it would be necessary for him to tithe in the way we think of it for the people in the pews In many ways the Pastor and his family sacrifice a far greater price when serving a local church. A Pastor is many things...like having the role as a "counselor" to listen to members personal problems and give them guidance. In ordinary circumstances someone could charge nearly a 100$ a session for the same kind of guidance. Not only the Pastor but his entire family are generally expected to live and act in ways that members wouldn't because of the scrutiny that comes with it. Many Pastors or their children have been unable to live up to those expectations causing them to fall away from their faith altogether. I personally would believe that when it comes to financial giving of a Pastor it would be up to the Pastors own discretion and whether he does or doesn't shouldn't be the concern of others. If it were mandatory then the church itself would be doing the very thing you mentioned by taking his "tithe" directly out of his income without his permission. I wouldn't hold a position either way

If you cannot tithe where you are going then why in the world are you still going there? One should be tithing where they are attending.

Our church lets people designate where their tithing dollars go. A majority of the churches in this country have less than 100 people. Rural churches typically run between 45-75. Most of these churches are doing their desd level best to be accountable for the dispersion of the funds. I've only been a member of one church (Baptist Church) that didn't hold their leaders accountable for how funds were allocated. After it was discovered that over $45k was unaccounted for and missing, the church ended up in a huge split, and many people were hurt, families divided, and trust in the leaders was permanently lost. The two churches because of the split still fight and hate each other, and both have become seeker sensitive, this is your day to be rich and healed type of churches. They're no longer Baptist but instead have become charismatic leaning non denominational churches. We never hear of people being saved or lives changed because of Christ. It breaks my heart.

These are your opinions. Some churches NEED new signage. And how do you know it's not helping the ministry of the church or Jesus? If one is in a church that the Lord wants them in, I believe they should be tithing where they attend. One can always direct what their tithe is to be used for. Putting an emoticon with a halo doesn't make it any the less disconcerting to some of us who see this constant worrying about other people's churches.

It is a package now, it looks like. All in one, disciple, membership, baptism, tithing, serving. This can take 2 months?

I can’t say what my church does and does not do. Tithing has been abused in many churches, that I visited throughout my thirty-plus years. I seen Members being faithful in their giving, not all. I have also noticed that some churches have not been good stewards of the tithe. Theyare more Self Center, where they don't even support mission personality. Just everything the pastor wants, spending only on themself and the property. No Fear

I believe tithing is applicable to believers today. One of the big arguments against tithing is that it is part of the Law - however, Genesis 14 predates the Law by over 430 years. I have personally claimed all the tithing promises and have seen God do His part by fulfilling the tithing promises. Would He do that if it was not for us today? We don't see Him consuming our sacrifices with fire from Heaven every time we lay them on the altar (hypothetical - I have not actually sacrificed any sheep in my backyard lately). Malachi 3:8-11 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts. Notice it says "bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse" (not just some or part of the tithes). Also: 1 Corinthians 16:1-2 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. Seems to be applying the OT storehouse to the NT church. Paul also refers to eating from the altar, using OT laws and principles to support taking care of the NT leaders of the church. 1 Corinthians 9:13-14 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. Proverbs 3:9-10 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. I have always applied this to seeking God on the FIRST day of the week, FIRST part of the day, giving Him my FIRSTFRUITS, as well as of course giving Him FIRST priority (not always successful, but that is what I believe I should be doing). Yes, there were both freewill offerings and tithing under the Law, and we can see both referred to in the NT for the NT believer. For example, 2 Corinthians 8-9; Philippians 4. One other thing worth considering for those who are not sure if the tithing applies today: Here is a challenge for you. Read all the way through the book of Proverbs, and make a list of things that don't apply to you today (ie. don't apply to the NT believer). There is nothing that does not directly apply to us. Yes, there are references to sacrifices - but it is in reference to the sacrifices of the wicked, nothing about the righteous needing to offer animal sacrifices, nothing else ceremonial in that book - and nothing else that has been done away with or fulfilled in Christ - except for tithing (for the sake of this argument). However, if every other Proverb in the whole book applies to every believer today, perhaps tithing does too!

I personally compare for the new Christians, when it comes to tithing and baptisms, this is in the same category. The new Christian does it when they’re ready, not by force. What true church will want money from someone that does not want to really give it? Blessings come from cheerful givers who give gladly.

I have also learned that the faith assembly, might be practicing this too. My wife mentioned seeing it in a local neighborhood paper, that they fired one of the cooks, for not tithing. This didn't sound right to me if it is true?

I wouldn't work at a church that felt it had the right to tax my paycheck. Show me where it's biblical. I don't think it's that common, but I do know of a church that takes people out of ministry for not tithing (happened to our son, when he didn't even have a job - but nobody wanted to hear that). There may be more than one, but I don't know. Also know of a church that had a young man who interned for a whole year for no pay...young man was presented with a bill for his tithe for the year, based on what they would have paid him. He had to work another 2-3 weeks for free before he could go on to the ministry God was calling him to. Where is that in the Bible? I don't know how common it actually is, but if the employee of the church accepts the job and that's the way they do it, well, the employee has no recourse but to put up with it. IMO, it's making tithe a tax...income tax is unconstitutional, and IMO, forced tithe is unbiblical.

It’s not so much the BBQ on the church property. It’s who is paying for it. The tithing and offering is for the Lords work. If we don’t manage it well, this fall’s under robbing God. The church is not a business where we do what ever it takes, by spending the tithing, to get more people to visit. Now, I know you and most here will agree.

Now, the funds of tithing is being used to paid out all these services. Is it okay, or the tithing and offering should be used for evangelize and paid the building bills. Utilities only.

TGL.... nobody is forcing you to tithe here on earth. To be honest, you seem to have a fixation on money and tithing.

I will attend a Mega Heaven out of this world someday, Lord willing. No sickness, No pain, No cash, No tithing. ?

In the years since I joined OB, I have seen the subject of tithing beaten to death on this forum. I would respectfully suggest that a search of this forum would turn up multitudes of information on this subject. As an "aside", I would also like to submit that I have no desire to make this subject a "hobby horse" subject. I am into preaching and teaching the whole counsel of God and have no wish to get bogged down with a single subject. The original subject was in regard to tithing, which I attempted to answer. But then things got more complicated when I mentioned replacement theology and Bro. Tony asked about that. Perhaps what made things more complicated was when I used the example of tithing as an example of replacement theology. Before things get even more complicated. I would just like to state as plainly as I can, that I am not against tithing IN ITS PLACE. And I am certainly not against New Testament Giving, which is how our churches are financed today. Although I could go on and on in regard to replacement theology as well as tithing, I would prefer not to. Anyone interested in these subjects can, and should do their own study. After all, what really counts is what the Bible says about these subjects, not any one individuals interpretation of what it says.

I'm sorry to tell you this TGL...there is nothing wrong with a preacher/pastor having money. If they're tithing, giving money to the poor and programs in the church, then what they earn and can use to invest and help to increase their own wealth isn't necessarily anti-scriptural. I see you harping on mega-churches all the time, and again, there is nothing wrong with being in a megachurch, nor being a pastor of a megachurch. You act like those who are pastors of megachurches or who have saved and increased their wealth while serving the Lord aren't "humble." This, my friend, isn't necessarily the case. I know that @Jim_Alaska believes we shouldn't listen to anyone but our pastor...that's his opinion, and he's definitely welcome to it. He's not necessarily wrong, and that's his conviction. But, there are others here who believe that yes, they should listen to their pastor's preaching and teaching, but who also glean from other pastors. I don't see anything anti-scriptural or incorrect about this, either. It's a matter of personal preference and one's ability to keep a Godly perspective in their life while gleaning from these people. From your post you make it seem that anyone who is involved with/attends a megachurch is on the wrong side of the "Lord's Army." Sorry...but, that's just plain wrong, and again, YOUR opinion. Peace to you. BT