Just thought I'd share the attached file regarding:

• King David's shameful behavior in Gath
• God's faithfulness to him
• the glory that God received from this
• and the blessing that it was to others

Our Fearfulness_God's Faithfulness.pdf

5 hours ago, Jerry said:

 

Numbers In The Bible Series
15 - God Gives Perfect Rest

 

Day 15 - God Gives Perfect Rest

For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee. (Isaiah 54:10) Doesn't this verse absolutely bless your socks off? God's promises are not temporary like those of man. His promises are forever, my friend. God's kindness toward us and His covenant of peace with us shall never be removed, even though the mountains and hills disappear! A promise such as this brings peace and rest. No longer does man have to fret or feel alone.

When I was first saved, one of the first passages I read was Matthew 11:28-30. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. (28) A promise of rest to all. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. (29) For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. (30) These verses have been imprinted on my heart and forever on my brain. Many times I have needed encouragement and have been able to encourage myself by reciting them. As I was meditating on what to write next in our series on Numbers In The Bible, these dear friends came to mind - more specifically, the phrase "I will give you (thee) rest." I wondered if God had given us a "number" for this phrase in His Word. I searched my Bible and discovered that this phrase appears three times! Three is the number for the Godhead, the Trinity! The only true rest which can be found is found in the Lord, God.

(1) The first phrase was found in Exodus 33:14, And he said, My presence shall go with thee, and I will give thee rest. God promised rest to Moses and his people for coming out of Egypt. As you know, Egypt is a "type" for the "world." It is only when we "come out of the world and separate ourselves," that we find rest. There is no rest for the unsaved. I remember before salvation feeling a void in my life - there was an emptiness that could not be filled. Coming out of Egypt and being born again, I found complete rest in Jesus Christ. It seemed as though a hundred pounds of burden came off my shoulders! When my eyes fell on Matthew 11:28-30, I was in tears because those words applied to me. God's Word showed me exactly what had happened to me. I came to Christ and He gave me rest. I am overwhelmed each time I think on my salvation day!

(2) Isaiah 14:3 says, And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve. God's rest was prophesied by Isaiah and a promise was given to Israel that one day they would receive this rest from all their sorrows, fears and bondage. Salvation begins with the Jewish people. Twice Paul stressed this:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. (Romans 1:16)

But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: (Romans 2:10)

God's plan included all His creation - Jew or Gentile. The Gentile's rest comes from the same Source as the Jew's - the Messiah, Jesus Christ. The old and new covenant were completed in Jesus Christ's work on the cross.

(3) And finally, Matthew 11:28 says, Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. A promise of rest is made in this verse to all that labour and are heavy laden. Jesus' promise is not just to the Jew. All who come to Him will be given rest.

My friend, the pleasures of this world can promise peace and rest, but they cannot truly do so. The best spa on earth can relax your poor, tired old body but it cannot provide the rest that your spirit needs. The Word says that what is in the heart of man (his spirit) will make its way to the surface (Matthew 12:34) You can be relaxed on the outside but the turmoils and trials of the day are still churning on the inside. Does God remove these turmoils and trials from a Christian's life? No. But He promises rest to those who come to Him. We have rest and comfort knowing that nothing happens to us by chance. God allows these trials to grow us, to teach us, and to bring glory to His Name.

We also have a rest which cannot be found in any other. We no longer have the burden of sin because Jesus has taken on our sin and we are free from sin (Romans 6:22). We no longer have the penalty hanging over us. Christ paid our sin debt and the Father sees Christ's righteousness, not ours. Praise the Lord! For our righteousness is like filthy rags in God's sight.

There is no true rest for the unsaved. But we, my friend, have a rest promised to us by God Himself. The Triune God has promised complete rest to all who come to Him. God has promised rest three times in His Word. We have the confidence that God does not break His covenant - we are children of the New Covenant through Jesus Christ. Because we are born again, we have a unique relationship with the Father. We are able to come to Him, sit at His feet and turn over all our troubles to Him. It is in Him that we find total solace.

Dear God...
None other can provide such rest
None other is so True
We boldly come because of Christ
To find that rest in You

Devotional by Kate Plourde

Great post, Jerry.  Thanks very much.

On 9/30/2021 at 1:52 PM, Jerry said:

Thanks Bruce. Your article was well worth the read. Passed it on to a couple friends, one of which really appreciated it.

Great.  One of the things that I value most when I study out a doctrine is "childlike faith".  I do not mean by this that I value naiveté or immature thinking.  I mean that I value simple trust in what God says and simple confidence in God himself.  Surely, this is a major principle taught by Jesus Christ himself in his word.

There was a remarkable man named Robert Dick Wilson who was a great scholar of the Old Testament and a great defender of its absolute accuracy.  Perhaps no one has ever been as qualified as he to defend the Old Testament from a linguistic and historical perspective.  He knew 45 languages. He was a Presbyterian (but I suppose that God has forgiven him of this :)).

Apparently he was also a man of simple faith, for it is reported that as he stood to give his conclusions after a life of study he began his address with these words: “Jesus loves me, this I know, for the Bible tells me so”.  Although I have studied the translation issue fairly extensively, that is the same kind of childlike faith that God has given me in the King James Version, and it has made a world of difference in my walk with Christ.

On 9/30/2021 at 1:52 PM, Jerry said:

Thanks Bruce. Your article was well worth the read. Passed it on to a couple friends, one of which really appreciated it.

I'm really happy to hear that.  I wrote it to be a blessing to others and I'm glad that it is.  All credit to my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

On 9/25/2021 at 4:28 AM, BrotherTony said:

My brother in law's birthday is today. When I sent him a "Happy Birthday" wish on FB, he sent me a Message saying my sister Michele in Augusta, GA was in the hospital. She had a very serious flare-up of her MS yesterday and went into convulsions. He was at work (he works as a Richmond County (Augusta) Sheriff's deputy. He couldn't get ahold of her when he called, so he asked a friend to go and check on her. The friend found her in serious condition and called Al at work. His supervisor sent him home. He got some meds into her, and she slept until 6 PM last night. When she got up, it had started all over again. So, he took her to the ER....They admitted her. Blood work has come back and the doctor told them that the drug gabapentin wasn't being excreted through her kidney's like it's supposed to be (the same reason I quit taking this drug about 10 weeks ago), and that he would need to keep her at least overnight, and if no improvement, with the tests she needs, until at least Tuesday. Al HAS to work today...plus it's his 68th birthday. He's stressed and needs your prayers as well. I'm not sure if he's told my mother yet or not. I'm going to try to call her in just a few minutes to make sure she knows. This whole situation could use some prayer...I know Al and Michele would appreciate it, and so would the rest of our family. This is the second worst MS episode Michele has had in the past six months. The disease is progressing.  Thank-you in advance.

Hi Brother Tony,

I'm sorry to hear about your sister's condition.  I have just prayed for her, you, Al, and your mom.  That's a tough situation for all of you.  May you all lean upon God's great grace.  I have prayed that the medical personnel would be given God's wisdom also.

19 hours ago, Jerry said:

Thanks Bruce. I just saved and emailed it to myself so I could read it in ibooks. Hey, do you know if you can just copy/paste a file into itunes to add it to ibooks? You can do that with music and videos.

Now, stepping away from the computer to read it on the couch.

Hi Jerry,

I'm sorry but I've never used ibooks so I don't have the answer to your question.  Perhaps someone else on this post can help.

Take care,

Bruce

On 9/22/2021 at 5:42 AM, Jerry said:

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2 Timothy 3:16

The Bible says God's Word IS inspired, is given by inspiration. No, God did not reinspire the KJV - BUT where does the Bible teach that it loses it's inspiration when someone copies or translates it?

If you look within the Bible itself, there are parts that were copied (such as Jeremiah recopying and rewriting the same scroll after it was originally destroyed, Ezekiel copying it out again after eating the original scroll, Hezekiah copying out the Proverbs of Solomon) and parts that were quoted by other writers (including NT writers speaking Greek but quoting the Hebrew OT, Luke writing Paul's conversion account and his Hebrew messages in the book of Acts - yet he wrote the book of Acts in Greek). Yet we find Paul, Jesus, Peter and other Bible writers declaring all these books and passages the inspired Word of God. Yes, I can give many specific verses where this is done in the Bible (ie. the copying/rewriting of Biblical texts, translating of other passages within the Bible itself) - and it is still the inspired Word of God. Not reinspired - but it never lost it's original inspiration!

And lastly, God never said His Word WAS inspired - but IS inspired! I have a faithful, accurate translation of His Word in English in my King James Bible.

That is excellent, Jerry.  I absolutely agree.  I can hold a KJV Bible in my hand and confidently say, "This is the word of God".  Years ago, I studied the Bible translation issue, fasted and prayed about it, and asked God to show me the truth.  The attached file is the story of how God led me through this amazing "journey" to a settled conclusion.  If you or anyone else wishes to read it, I hope that it is a blessing.  Your post is a blessing to me.

Take care my friend,

Brother Bruce

The Trial of God's Word.pdf

On 9/17/2021 at 11:39 AM, Pastor Scott Markle said:

I do apologize. Lately, for a week or more now, I have not been able to access Online Baptist at my home. I am now at someone else's house to read through what I have missed. Hard to stay up to date at the moment because of this, and even harder to engage in a lengthy discussion.

Pastor Markle,

I understand.  No problem.  When it works out for you to continue the conversation, just let me know.  It you end up having too many things on your plate and decide not to continue the conversation, I will respect and understand that also.

I have just prayed for you,

Brother Bruce

On 8/29/2021 at 7:55 PM, Hugh_Flower said:

Did not God divorce Israel after her fornication and lust for pursuing other 
gods.

Hi Hugh,

Thanks much for the question.  

Yes, it is clear in the following passage that God did divorce Israel.  It is also clear to me that, after God divorced her, he plainly said that he was still married to her:

“The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also. And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks. And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD. And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah. Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever. Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD. Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.”

       Jeremiah 3:6-15

This, for me, is one of the clearest passages stating that neither unfaithfulness nor divorce breaks the marriage bond in God’s eyes and that, furthermore, mercy is to be the guiding principle under these circumstances. In this passage, the door is left open for the offending spouse's repentance and return.  I see these same principles presented in the New Testament passages regarding divorce and remarriage.

FYI, I had also addressed your question in the PDF that I attached to my original post (which is a fairly comprehensive summary of my beliefs on the subject of divorce and remarriage and includes the scripture passages upon which I base these beliefs).  

Every time that I had confessed my own sins, fasted, prayed with supplication, diligently studied God's word, and committed myself to obeying whatever God would show me in the scriptures (refusing to lean unto my own understanding), I believe that he reinforced the beliefs stated in the PDF.

Hugh, I have prayed that God would bless you mightily today regardless of whether or not we are currently in disagreement on this subject.  Thank you again for engaging me on this important subject.

Brother Bruce

On 8/22/2021 at 6:47 PM, 1Timothy115 said:

When you looked at the following scripture how did you parse it with regard to divorce and or remarriage?

28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. ~ Mark 3:28-30

Hi 1Timothy115,

Thanks for the question and the conversation. I hope that you are doing well.

The following is how I understand Jesus’ statement that you referenced above....

I believe that Jesus made this statement in response to the saying of the scribes as recorded in the following verse:

And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. - Mark 3:22

I believe that, in this statement, they had committed the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (which is unforgiveable). Jesus had previously cast out unclean (demonic) spirits as recorded earlier in this chapter. The demons themselves had acknowledged that Jesus was the Son of God, thereby admitting that he was completely holy.  It seems to me that these scribes went beyond that which even the demons were willing to say and that this was evidence that their hearts were so thoroughly ruined by sin that they would never seek God’s forgiveness and therefore could never be forgiven.

Jesus also made the following statement in the passage that you referenced: “All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme”.  It is one of the most basic teachings of the Bible (as we all recognize) that those who reject Christ as Saviour will not be forgiven of their sins. I therefore believe that Jesus is telling us that all kinds of sins will be forgiven to those who receive him as their Saviour and that therefore the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost cannot be committed by saved people.  I also believe that those who continue in adultery with an unrepentant heart and life (not terminating the adulterous relationship as would result per any reasonable definition of repentance) are lost because God says that they will not inherit the kingdom of God:

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. - I Corinthians 6:9-10

I believe that a common error in the "christian" culture is that God's grace is somehow "great enough" to allow acceptance of unrepentant, continuous sin in his children.  I believe that this results from a complete misunderstanding of grace and forgiveness and that the scripture clearly exposes this foolishness:

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? - Romans 6:1-2

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; - Titus 2:11-12

It seems to me that the all-important question then becomes, "Does God consider those who are married (according to his standards) to a living spouse, but who are divorced and 'remarried' to be adulterers?"  I believe that the answer to this question is plainly stated in the following passage:

For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. - Romans 7:2-3

The only other plain passages that I find in the New Testament dealing with the termination of marriage also speak of the death of a spouse.  While I find the divorce-and-remarriage subject to be somewhat challenging to sort out Biblically, I just don't see any other way to interpret the scriptures if unbiased principles of Bible interpretation and simple childlike faith in God's word are employed. To me, other interpretations are dependent upon passages that are not straightforward, and these interpretations cannot be reconciled with the clear passages.

Regardless of whether we currently agree or disagree, my prayer is that God will bless you mightily.

Brother Bruce

2 minutes ago, BibleBruce said:

Hi Ukulelemike. 

 

Thank you for your response.  Sorry for my late response.  I hope that you are doing well.  

We just don't agree on the interpretation of the passage that you have cited.  I'm thinking that we probably won't agree on this subject and it might be best to simply leave it as it currently stands.  If you think otherwise just let me know.

May God bless you mightily.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Bruce, 

I am still here, and have not forgotten our planned discussion.  Good to know that you are also still here.

On 7/16/2021 at 3:18 PM, BibleBruce said:

Pastor Markle,

I think that's a great order for the conversation.  Please proceed whenever you wish.

 

Brother Bruce

Hi Pastor Markle,

Thanks for letting me know that you hadn't forgotten.  Whenever you are ready to proceed with the conversation, just let me know.

Have a blessed evening.

Brother Bruce

On 7/13/2021 at 11:13 AM, Ukulelemike said:

"Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you." (1Cor 7:27, 28)

Clearly here, it was Paul's opinion, and I firmly believe it was based on an excellent understanding of the mind of the Lord, that if a man is loosed from a wife, they ought not remarry, so they can set their mind on the things of God, BUT, if they remarry, they have NOT sinned. The term of being loosed from a wife clearly doesn't refer to being loosed by the death of the spouse, because that was earlier dealt with in some length-this clearly must speak of divorce. And this probably also has to do with having been married to an unbelieving spouse who has chosen to depart, and Paul says a brother or sister is not bound in such a case. Therefore, when my wife, (passed away now) and I married, both being believers, but both having been left by unbelieving spouses, neither of us were under bondage in such cases, and being properly loosed, we were free to remarry. And both our former spouses had committed adultery against us before the marriages ended, so there's that, as well. 

Hi Ukulelemike. 

Thank you for your response.  Sorry for my late response.  I hope that you are doing well.  

We just don't agree on the interpretation of the passage that you have cited.  I'm thinking that we probably won't agree on this subject and it might be best to simply leave it as it currently stands.  If you think otherwise just let me know.

May God bless you mightily.

2 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Bruce, 

I am still here, and have not forgotten our planned discussion.  Good to know that you are also still here.

On 7/6/2021 at 7:25 AM, Jordan Kurecki said:

https://www.amazon.com/Divorce-Remarriage-Christian-Spectrum-Multiview/dp/0830812830

I just recently finished reading this, I found it helpful. 

Hi Jordan,

I purchased the book that you recommended and read it through.  I found it helpful in the sense that it presented some angles to the issue that I had not heard before.  It didn't change my position but was helpful in understanding some of the contrary positions that are taken.

Thank you.

Hello,

I received the following from member "Fidelia".  Is this the scam email that others have reported receiving?

Hi Brother Tony,

Pastor Markle's tract looks really good.

You might want to consider the simple Gospel tract that I designed also.  It can be printed out, cut, and folded.

I have attached it in addition to a file which gives printing, cutting, and folding instructions.  I only have the tract file in MS Word format at this time.  I tried converting it to PDF but it didn't print correctly.  If you don't use MS Word, let me know and I'll try converting it again.

If you do print it out, I suggest that you print a single copy to start with (just to make sure it prints correctly before you print more).Gospel Tract (2).docx

I hope it's a help.

Brother Bruce

How to print the Gospel tract.pdf

Hi BaptistLady02,

I have bought cases of The Defined KJV and given them away.  I think they are very helpful for new Christians and for those whose second language is English.  There are some negatives:  There are errors in them (though not in the actual Bible text that I have found, but in the footnotes).  I also have found that there are quite a few cases where difficult to understand words are not defined while easily understood words are.  The last time I ordered them the shipping cost was extremely high.  Still, a very valuable type of Bible.

My main KJV Bible that I use was ordered from Local Church Bible Publishers:

Local Church Bible Publishers | A ministry of Parker Memorial Baptist Church

They sell their Bibles at their cost because this is a ministry of a local church, rather than a business.- I always give a love offering.

I like the wide margin.  The center column cross references are almost indispensable to me. I personally avoid Bibles with Scofield reference notes because some of his comments are sympathetic to the Wescott and Hort text (which is the basis for the modern versions which I am convinced are full of errors).  In my opinion these notes can cause new believers to doubt the faithfulness of the Bible that they hold in their hand - a very serious problem in my mind.

They don't appear to make the one that I bought anymore but the following one is similar:

    123E1B RL Mid Size Text Wide Margin Center Column Reference “Red Letter”

They have lots of other options including very inexpensive vinyl covered Bibles which I have bought in the past to give to homeless people and others.

Hope that helps.

Brother Bruce

On 7/13/2009 at 5:54 AM, PastorMatt said:

Inspiration through preservation. Not directly inspired.

I absolutely believe this also.

On 10/7/2018 at 7:55 PM, Donald said:

It is vitally important, that every Christian believes that the Bible that they hold in their hands is PERFECT.  But this is something that Satan just will not sit still for.

Therefore, lets establish what makes a Bible IMPERFECT!

I will start,
First of all, “typos don’t count”!  Half of the KJBs I own, have typos, but they are still perfect, because they don’t stop me searching “that which is Spiritual”(1 Cor. 2:13), and finding the truth.

What does count, in making a Bible imperfect, are those Bibles that have had verses or passages changed or removed, by some scholar: Who feels he has the authority to correct God’s Word.

I am open, for more suggestions.

 

Donald - thank you for your very important post.

Greetings to all in the precious name of Jesus Christ.

Over 20 years ago, and during a year’s period of time, I fasted, prayed, and studied about the Bible translation issue. This was the most intense and rewarding “Christian journey” that I have ever engaged in.  I desperately needed to be certain that I had a Bible that was perfect and that I could hold in my hands.

The attachment is the story that I wrote describing this journey and the settled conclusion that I arrived at.

I hope that it is a blessing.

Brother Bruce

The Trial of God's Word.pdf

9 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

What do you think about the order above?

Pastor Markle,

I think that's a great order for the conversation.  Please proceed whenever you wish.

Brother Bruce

On 7/13/2021 at 11:21 PM, BibleBruce said:

Pastor Markle,

I absolutely believe, as you do, that the KJV is completely accurate and in no way overrules or erases the Hebrew, Greek, (or Aramaic) texts from which it was translated.  I use Strong's Concordance for various purposes but when it comes to determining the meaning of Greek or Hebrew words I tend to rely more heavily on the ways that the KJV renders those words.  I also find that old English dictionaries can be helpful at times. 

I am in complete agreement regarding proceeding with grammatical, contextual, and Biblical precision.  I think that we both would like this conversation to be one of "iron sharpening iron" without contention.

Thanks much for being willing to continue the conversation.

I have prayed that God will bless you.

Brother Bruce

 

Pastor Markle,

Please proceed however you wish with our conversation.  I'll follow your lead.

Brother Bruce

3 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Bruce,

I would hold that the Lord our God divinely preserved His Holy Spirit inspired Word in the Masoretic text for the Old Testament Scriptures and in the Received text for the New Testament Scriptures.  I would further hold that the King James translation is a perfectly accurate translation in the English language of God's divinely preserved Word, and thus that the King James translation is the absolutely authoritative and holy Word of God for English speaking peoples.  However, I would NOT hold that the King James translation is somehow more inspired or authoritative than the divinely preserved Hebrew and Greek texts from which it was translated, or that it somehow supersedes them.

The Lord our God inspired His Holy Word by His Holy Spirit in Hebrew and Greek.  The Lord our God preserved His Holy Word by divine providence and power in Hebrew and Greek.  The Lord our God providentially worked so that His Holy Word might be translated with perfect accuracy from the Hebrew and Greek into the English language through the King James translation.  Even so, that English translation is perfectly reliable for English speaking peoples; but that English translation neither erases the inspired and preserved Hebrew and Greek, nor overrules the inspired and preserved Hebrew and Greek.

Indeed, I am quite comfortable continuing any discussion on the Biblical doctrine of divorce and of remarriage after divorce.  Just recognize that I will be quite driven toward grammatical, contextual, and Biblical precision within any such discussion.

Pastor Markle,

I absolutely believe, as you do, that the KJV is completely accurate and in no way overrules or erases the Hebrew, Greek, (or Aramaic) texts from which it was translated.  I use Strong's Concordance for various purposes but when it comes to determining the meaning of Greek or Hebrew words I tend to rely more heavily on the ways that the KJV renders those words.  I also find that old English dictionaries can be helpful at times. 

I am in complete agreement regarding proceeding with grammatical, contextual, and Biblical precision.  I think that we both would like this conversation to be one of "iron sharpening iron" without contention.

Thanks much for being willing to continue the conversation.

I have prayed that God will bless you.

Brother Bruce

5 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother Bruce,

Thus far I have not directly engaged your doctrinal position concerning the matters of divorce and of remarriage after divorce.  However, I have carefully followed the discussion to this point, and have carefully noted your responses throughout.  I have waited and watched in this manner specifically so that (as I expressed with my first posting in the thread discussion) I might approach this discussion with you from an appropriate perspective.

First, I would commend you for the spirit in which you have engaged those who have written in disagreement with you and with whom you obviously disagree.  Although you have expressed firm disagreement with them, you have also done so with a gracious spirit.

Second, I would express that I myself do indeed stand in disagreement with your originally posted position on a few points and with some of the arguments/evidences that you have presented in your responses to others.  I do not intend to handle each of these points of disagreement with you through this particular posting.  Rather, I wish to present the "highlights" of my own position on this matter, as follows:

1.  I believe that remarriage after divorce is always a sin against God.  However, in some cases I believe that God views such remarriage as the sin of adultery, whereas in other cases I believe that God views such remarriage simply as the sin of disobedience (sin nevertheless, but not the sin of adultery).

2.  I do NOT believe that in those cases where a remarriage after divorce is equivalent to the sin of adultery, the sin of adultery is to be viewed Biblically as "perpetual adultery" (as long as the remarriage remains in effect).

3.  I believe that most cases of divorce are a sin against God; however, I believe that Biblically divorce is not a sin against God within two possible cases - in the case of fornication and in the case wherein the unbelieving spouse chooses to pursue the divorcement.  (Note: My position as presented in this point would also indicate that I do not hold to the same definitional application for the word "fornication" in the Matthew passages as you do.)

(Further note: Yes, I have also spent a great deal of time in prayerful Bible study over this matter; and yes, I have payed some prices for the position that I hold.  However, I do not hold a doctrinal position in order to gain or retain friends.  Rather, I hold a doctrinal position because that is what I find through a diligent study of that which God's Holy Word precisely teaches on a matter, for God's Holy Word alone in its precise teaching on any matter is my absolute authority for all of belief and behavior.)

Pastor Markle,

Thank you for your thoughtful response.  If you believe that the KJV is God's Holy, inerrant Word in the English language then we have the same foundation upon which to continue the discussion (if you wish to do so).  Disagreement on the KJV would make things a bit more difficult but I'm willing to continue the discussion either way.  We could also simply disagree on the matter and not continue the discussion - I'll respect your decision either way.

1 hour ago, Ukulelemike said:

"Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you." (1Cor 7:27, 28)

Clearly here, it was Paul's opinion, and I firmly believe it was based on an excellent understanding of the mind of the Lord, that if a man is loosed from a wife, they ought not remarry, so they can set their mind on the things of God, BUT, if they remarry, they have NOT sinned. The term of being loosed from a wife clearly doesn't refer to being loosed by the death of the spouse, because that was earlier dealt with in some length-this clearly must speak of divorce. And this probably also has to do with having been married to an unbelieving spouse who has chosen to depart, and Paul says a brother or sister is not bound in such a case. Therefore, when my wife, (passed away now) and I married, both being believers, but both having been left by unbelieving spouses, neither of us were under bondage in such cases, and being properly loosed, we were free to remarry. And both our former spouses had committed adultery against us before the marriages ended, so there's that, as well. 

Hi Ukule

1 hour ago, Ukulelemike said:

"Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife. But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you." (1Cor 7:27, 28)

Clearly here, it was Paul's opinion, and I firmly believe it was based on an excellent understanding of the mind of the Lord, that if a man is loosed from a wife, they ought not remarry, so they can set their mind on the things of God, BUT, if they remarry, they have NOT sinned. The term of being loosed from a wife clearly doesn't refer to being loosed by the death of the spouse, because that was earlier dealt with in some length-this clearly must speak of divorce. And this probably also has to do with having been married to an unbelieving spouse who has chosen to depart, and Paul says a brother or sister is not bound in such a case. Therefore, when my wife, (passed away now) and I married, both being believers, but both having been left by unbelieving spouses, neither of us were under bondage in such cases, and being properly loosed, we were free to remarry. And both our former spouses had committed adultery against us before the marriages ended, so there's that, as well. 

Hi Ukulelemike,

Thanks again for your response.  We disagree on the meaning of I Corinthians 7:27 & 28.  No offense taken and none intended.  I appreciate the manner in which you have disagreed. 

Since we both firmly believe what we believe on this subject it may not be worthwhile to continue the conversation between us, but if you would like to do so I'm perfectly willing to continue.  I will submit to your decision.

I have prayed that God would bless you mightily,

Brother Bruce

On 7/7/2021 at 4:06 PM, Jordan Kurecki said:

Thank you Bruce, I appreciate the spirit and attitude that you are manifesting in your posts, even though I think we probably would disagree on this subject. 

Hi Jordan,

Thanks again for responding to my post.  I hope that you are doing well.

I'd like to address each of the issues associated with the underlined/highlighted portions of the scanned book in the order that they appear in your response:

1.    The author appears to believe that all who take the betrothal exception position also believe that marriage and the Jewish betrothal are equally binding. I believe that the exception almost certainly applies to the betrothal period but I do not believe that marriage and Jewish betrothal are equally binding. I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who believes that the two are equally binding.  So I don’t think that this particular point applies to me or to most people who believe as I do.

2.    Over 20 years ago I decided to dedicate myself to the study of the Bible translation issue. I did so diligently and with prayer and fasting, asking God to show me the truth.  As part of this study I researched some of the translators. I was amazed at the skill that the King James Version (KJV) translators possessed in languages. Some of them were truly geniuses.  They were also men who believed the Bible and believed God’s promises to preserve it throughout each generation.  I believe that the modern translators just can’t compare.  Also, a study of the history surrounding the KJV translation convinced me that God had his hand upon it in a mighty and miraculous way. Some of the enemies of the KJV have admitted that it is so accurate that it can be used as a lexicon for defining the Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic words that it has rendered in English. I came to the conclusion that there simply is nothing to compare with it in the English language and that it contains no errors. This is a belief based upon simple faith in God’s promises and an objective and careful analysis of historic facts. Because of this, I do not question the rendering of Greek, Hebrew, or Aramaic words into English within the KJV.  This would include the word “husband”.

3.    I do believe that it was wrong to break the Jewish betrothal except for fornication.  I believe that this is what the Bible teaches. I do not believe that marriage is forbidden after a Jewish betrothal is broken (and I don’t think that I have ever met anyone who believes this).

4.    Because I believe that the KJV contains no errors, I believe that the word “wife” is the proper rendering in the following verse:

To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.

Luke 2:5

If this is the proper rendering, then the word “wife” can refer to a woman who is in a Jewish betrothal process as well as to a woman who is married. Words often have multiple meanings and I believe that this is the case here.

I have the impression (and I may be wrong) that the author of this book used the “straw man” method of arguing in at least two instances.  To use the straw man method is to falsely claim that the opposing side is basing their belief on certain things that are easily proven to be wrong, demonstrating that they are wrong, and then falsely claiming to have won the argument.

I hope that none of my comments sound uncharitable - I do not mean them to be.  I am simply stating my beliefs and providing the reasons for them.  You might agree or disagree.  Regardless, I have prayed that God would bless you mightily.

Brother Bruce

On 7/6/2021 at 8:10 AM, Ukulelemike said:

I am not an advocate of divorce, I read the paper put forth, which lays out all the reasons in the typical manner, but I disagree with some of the interpretation, taking simple scriptures and putting a spin that isn't necessarily there. 

for instance, clearly, believers are NOT to marry unbelievers-but if we choose to ignore God's command there, and do so, does that mean that God just shifts His position on it, and blesses that unequally-yoked relationship, just because WE chose to marry outside of His will? Would not, then, that instance make acceptable the divorce from that unsaved person, particularly if they chose to leave, because we are not under bondage to that unsaved person, and make us free to marry within His will?

Hi Ukulelemike,

I am in complete agreement with you that it is against God’s will for believers to marry unbelievers (the Bible clearly says so).  I do believe that there are times when God will allow a commitment that is against his will to stand once it has been made.  It seems to me that an example of this is the unlawful commitment that Joshua made to the inhabitants of Gibeon (Joshua 9). It appears to me that some blessings resulted from this since God’s people got a lot of free labor J and the Gibeonites were exposed to the Gospel (as seen through the symbolism of the sacrificial system).  On the other hand, there are examples of where God requires that people disavow a commitment that is against his will, as was the case with the Jews who had married strange wives (Ezra 10).  If I am wrong about the situation with Joshua (and I can certainly be wrong at times – just ask my wife J), I still believe that the following passage describes God’s will under the circumstances that you have presented:

But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace. For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?  - I Corinthians 7:12-16

Since this instruction applies to “any brother” and “the woman” (which I believe is a general term meant to apply to any woman) I believe that this instruction is inclusive (not pertaining exclusively to those who are saved after having married an unsaved person but also pertaining to those who married in disobedience to God’s commandments regarding unequal yokes).

I believe that the word “bondage” in this passage has a distinctly different meaning than the meaning that you understand it to have and that this has caused us to draw opposing conclusions regarding whether or not God allows divorce and remarriage under the circumstances described in this passage.  I invite you to read the attachment which explains my understanding of this word in this context.

Regardless of whether you agree or disagree, I have prayed that God would bless you mightily.

Brother Bruce

I Cor 7 - Bondage.pdf

On 7/7/2021 at 3:59 PM, BibleBruce said:

Hi Ukulelemike,

Thanks for responding to my post.  I don't have time to respond to your comments in the detail that they deserve right now but plan to do so soon. BTW, I don't believe (and never have believed) that divorce and remarriage is an unforgiveable sin.  I do believe that repentance is required and I can explain what I believe repentance would entail for this sin.

Take care and may God bless you mightily.

Brother Bruce

On 7/7/2021 at 5:50 PM, wretched said:

Hey Brother, responses in bold above: Just to make sure you know, my post was not directed at anyone nor was it a critique of your posted study but my summarized take on the matter since this subject has been discussed many times on this forum. 

Hi Wretched,

Thanks for the clarification.  I would still like to respond to your comments.  I'll begin with the question of whether or not divorce and remarriage is "unforgiveable":

I do not believe (and never have believed) that divorce and remarriage is an unforgiveable sin. I do believe that it is a sin (the sin of adultery) and I believe that God requires us to repent of sin in order to receive his forgiveness.  I don't believe that this sin is an exception.  I believe that repentance is a change of heart and mind regarding sin and that it results in a turning away from sin rather than a continuing in it. The following verse states that this sin of adultery persists as long as the husband of the wife who has remarried is living. 

“So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.” -Romans 7:3

I am confident that the same principle would apply if the husband were the one who had remarried.

We know that verse 3 is used by the Holy Spirit to help us understand the “marriage relationship" between the believer and Christ. Some claim that we are not free to literally apply the statement in verse 3 to earthly marriages because it is only an example, not the subject of the passage.  I do not believe that God would use a faulty earthly example to help us understand a faultless spiritual truth. 

To summarize my position on this particular portion of the divorce and remarriage issue, I would say that I believe that the Bible clearly teaches that:

• Divorce and remarriage is adultery
• Adultery is sin
• Forgiveness requires repentance
• Repentance results in a forsaking of sin
• Continuance in a lifestyle of sin does not result in forgiveness

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" - Romans 6:1-2