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Bouncing Bill

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News Comments posted by Bouncing Bill

  1. 2 minutes ago, PastorMatt said:

    Brother, you must be confused. We're talking about the verses you copied and pasted regarding liberal voting which leads to government control when voting. That my friend is right on topic. 

    You quoted Matt 25 and I asked who that chapter was referring to (because that is important in voting decisions) in which you said that chapter has no bearing on this topic. Soooooo.......

     Please don't create a problem and then try to be the solution.

    The problem is, as I see it, the continued refusal of answer questions and the continued finding ways to ignore the real topic. 

    By the way, I am quite busy indexing a book with a short turn-around time. So I will not be replying quickly.  In case you are curious the title of the book is, Basic Audiometric Learning Manual. 3rd edition. 

  2. 1 minute ago, PastorMatt said:

    Would not make sense to me to refer to the verses you were quoting, where I quoted you? In all sincerity, do you know what verses you are copying and pasting? 

    I would appreciate it if you would answer my questions instead of finding new rabbit tracks to misdirect the discussion. 

  3. 5 minutes ago, PastorMatt said:

    With all due respect, sometimes I wonder if all you do is google answers then copy and paste. Are your reply's you or someone else on the internet? You are telling me that Matt 25 has nothing to do with this topic when you are the one who quoted from Matt 25. 

    When I asked for you to expound on your statement, you then quoted Matthew 25:35-36. Then I ask you who Matthew 25 is referring to, and your reply was you don't see that Matt 25 has any bearing with this topic?

    I'm curious, are you aware what you are copying and pasting?  I'm asking in all honesty and sincerity as it will help me in the future to understand your replies.

    I was going to get into that after he answers why he said that the Bible verse he quoted has no bearing in topic.  I'm very confused.

    I beg to differ on the government.  Show me where in the Bible it says we should not collectively, through our government, help the poor, the ill, etc., etc.

    On Matt. 25, I thought you were referring to the ten virgins. Please let me know what verses you are wanting to know about. 

    I can give you my opinion, but I do not think you would accept it, thus I show backup. I wish you and others would do the same. Why do you think as you do? Where do your ideas come from.

    On social issues mine come from the example I see in Christ's the things I saw Christ do for others and his teachings.

    I realize that much of what Christ did and taught go against current USA culture.  

  4. 1 hour ago, PastorMatt said:

    @Bouncing BillWho is Jesus talking to in Matt 25?

     

     

     

     

     

    Please remove formatting when copying and pasting. Hopefully you still have the instructions  in your inbox.

    I do not see that Matt. 25 has any bearing on this topic. Enlighten me. But, I see it that the ten wise virgins were prepared to meet Christ the unwise ones were not. It has nothing, IMHO, about material possessions. It is a parable and oil is a metaphor for being prepared. 

    Also, I realized I should have said that a person could write an article entitled, "You Cannot Serve God and the Democratic Party." It would be a different article with different points. That is why I say I do not owe allegiance to a particular political party. I look at the candidates and select the one that seems to be closest to the teachings of Christ.

    Do you agree?

  5. 8 hours ago, PastorMatt said:

    Please expound

     35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’

    Conservatives politicians almost always oppose any new or the improvement of programs in any of these areas. 

    Trump budget proposals threatened to take away nutrition services for poor women and their children.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/mar/16/trump-budget-wic-women-infants-children-nutrition

    Once they had control of Congress Republicans made cuts to WIC.

    In 2020 Republican politicians opposed improvements to the Food Stamp Program.

    https://www.businessinsider.com/gop-lawmaker-conaway-republicans-food-stamps-coronavirus-government-dependency-2020-5

    A number of GOP controlled states cut emergency food assistance programs making it harder for the people in need to receive services.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/06/18/republican-states-restrict-snap-food-assistance-usda/

    I agree with the title of the article entitled, "Christians Cannot Serve Both God and the GOP

    https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/459296-christians-cannot-serve-both-god-and-the-gop

    I won't quote from the article but believe you will ead the entire article. As Matther 2:26 says a Christian cannot serve God and mammon.

    We cannot serve to masters, God and the GOP. We serve one or the other as they are incompatible in their goals concerning people. 

    Scripture on serving two masters,

    https://biblereasons.com/serving-two-masters/

    And, remember the story of the rich man and Lazarus. 

    The examples above are not exhaustive, but representative. 

    Now, I am not saying that the Democrats are shining lights of virtue. But their policies on helping people come closer to Christ's teachings than the GOP stances. And, I am not saying that people do not abuse the system. That will always happen. But, in my own personal life if I help someone and they abuse that help that is on their head, not mine. 

    I also realize that is preachers began preaching God over mammon, really preaching it they would be fired. This puts the pastor in a very difficult position. An extremely wise preacher might be able to gradually move his congregation away from mammon. It would be very difficult and would take a long time. 

    So, I do not necessarily vote for a party. I vote for the person whom I believe will most likely support programs that help people as taught by Jesus. I know many will disagree with me.

     

  6. 1 hour ago, heartstrings said:

    A Christian may vote for a "conservative" candidate and he may also do things like driving a car, eating pizza and putting his pants on one leg at a time. Just because a "Conservative" does the same things(which he does), doesn't make him a Christian. The question was "can a Christian be a liberal voter?" and I still say "no"; not if he is in his right mind he can't.

    Of course a Christian can vote liberal. I cannot see how a Christian can vote for some who call themselves conservative and take stances that do not help people and actually often will harm the average person. 

    If you look at the Final Judgment you see that what is advocated are those ideas which conservatives oppose as liberal. So, if the Final Judgment is liberal, then count me in with Christ. 

  7. 11 hours ago, heartstrings said:

    We are to do those 9 things but that's not all:

     

    Psalm 2 1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

     

    3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

    Why do the heathen want to "break our bands asunder" and "cast away" our cords? Remember a man named Stephen? When he preached to some "raging heathens" they became so enraged that they violently murdered him. And he was full of the Spirit of God. We are also here to be filled with the Holy Ghost as Stephen was and what is one thing the Holy Ghost does? He "reproves the World of sin, righteousness and judgement to come". We are to call sin sin. For example: murdering babies in the womb. Democrats or anyone else who advocates for that by voting or otherwise is a member of the wicked "raging heathen" crowd. That is NOT "liberal": the Bible speaks well of "liberal souls" but the Bible word "liberal" appears to mean something way different from what we call "liberal" today.

     A liberal soul that practices the teaching of Christ will be considered a liberal person by conservatives as they will not do those things. Just look at what the GOP preaches. There is little or nothing of Christ's teaching in their stances.

     

  8. What did Jesus teach?

    1. Go the second mile.
    2. Give the coat off your back to someone in need.
    3. Visit the sick.
    4. Give to the hungry.
    5. Give drink to the thirsty.
    6. Visit those in prison.
    7. Love your enemies.
    8. Do good to those who persecute you.
    9. Do to others as you want them to do to you.

    Pretty liberal as opposed to what conservatives stances on how we treat others.

  9. Where I live the large majority of folk see the words 'Southern Baptist' and they think intolerant, bigoted and racist. Just the work Baptist is a negative. We have struggled with this for years and have considered dropping the word 'Baptist' from our church title. We haven't and I doubt we will. There are some Baptist churches who have given us a hard time as we are very diverse racially. We welcome all as we believe all need Christ. 

  10. On 10/15/2020 at 6:03 PM, 1Timothy115 said:

    Bill, I hope you are old enough to understand that socialism is the precursor to communism. No more reply to you, so you may as well stop contacting me. Communism 'the form of government' not some obscure situation you may have personally encountered is godless. People living under communism who desire Christianity want to leave their country for that reason.  I reject your left wing ideas out of hand. You on the other hand, although deceived, may very well be a nice guy.

    P.S. I voted for Donald Trump and Mike Pence already.

    I am saddened that our society has degrades and forgotten the art of conversation. People can disagree and still be friends and can learn from each other. 

  11. 9 hours ago, 1Timothy115 said:

    Bill, I honestly answered you. I could never associate with politicians who have divorced God from their party platform and move toward a Godless America. Communism is a Godless form of government. This forum for discussion would not be here if the socialist-communist preference of the liberal-progressive agenda were to come to fruition.  Bill, I hope you're not in their camp, I'm not. Psalms 34:21 + Psalms 7:16 + Romans 1:28 (these verses are meant for those who espouse the liberal-progressive-socialist-communist agenda NOT you, I pray).

    I respectfully disagree with most of your reply. Yes, Communism is philosophically a Godless philosophy and most, but not all members are godless in their belief ... or lack there of. I met a young woman in China in 1995. She was a party member, but had accepted Christ while studying in Germany. She was in a quandary about what to do. Her job depended on being a party member and her mother and father were party members. We had a long talk over several days. My final advice to her was that is was possible that she was exactly where God wanted her to be. In that job she would be able to influence positions and policy in ways that would be impossible if she was in another job. I told her to wait, continue to do her job with her Christian beliefs leading how she worked. In other words, to wait until God told her to move on. This seemed satisfactory to her. She returned to her home. Several years later she did move on to another job, one not dependent on her being a party member. 

    I assume you do know there is a difference between Socialism and Communism. Socialism, unlike Communism, is not a godless philosophy.  The two philosophies are not one and the same, though there are some tenets that are the same. I do not see either the right or the left pushing for Socialism. Neither are saying the government should determine prices or production levels. 

    The central tenets of Communism are;

    • Central banking system.
    • Government controlled education.
    • Government controlled labor.
    • Government ownership of transportation and communication vehicles.
    • Government ownership of agricultural means and factories.
    • Total abolition of private property.

    I do not see the right or the left pushing for these policies. Thus I reject the right-wings statement as you stated above. Please do not buy into either the propaganda of the far-right or the far-left.

    All that aside, thought I think this is an interesting topic I fear it is a fruitless one to discuss. The waters have been so muddies and people have bought into the extreme ideas that a rational discussion is almost impossible. I have been saddened as our society has lost the art of conversation. I hope we can rediscover that ability. I remember a time when it was possible. Below it is expressed fairly well.

    Image may contain: 2 people, text that says 'When real Democrats and Republicans were running our country; we didn't hate each other. We didn't vote for parties. We voted for ideas that came form both parties that made us better as country. We didn't label ideas or parties as racist, sexist or un-American. We did what we thought was best for "WE THE PEOPLE" And accepted the winner as a united country!!!'

  12. 4 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

    This statement is a misrepresentation of my position, and as such is a false accusation.  I have indeed indicated that those who WILL NOT work (that is -- the "unworthy lazy") "should not be given food."  However, I have also indicated that welfare is "supposed to be FOR those who CANNOT work."  Consider the following:

     

    When Paul made the statement about being given food, who was he directly speaking to?

  13. 15 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

     

    Could you demonstrate where in his interpretation that he used a “liberal” interpretation, you seem to be the one using loose and “liberal” interpretations of scripture.

    Scott has actually exegeted the biblical texts you have attempted to proof text and rather than actually giving any kind of substantial interaction with the text or his exegesis of it you just dismiss it as being a “liberal” interpretation. That is true classic proof texting.

    Yes, he takes the verse out of context and to me implies that this is a universal statement saying that anyone who "will not" or "cannot work" should not be given food. Proof-texting is dangerous. We can prove anything by taking verses out of their contest. Also, by taking this one verse out of context multiple passages in the Bible are ignored at best or implied to be meaningless at worst. I am neither impressed nor pleased with proof-texting. [All this very gently said.] 

    I could show the logical conclusion this out-of-context verse leads to but I do not want to infuriate some on the board. 

  14. 33 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

    Ah, I see. Then I must contend that you are falsely accusing me. A "liberal" interpretation" would be one wherein the Scriptures can be handled "fluidly," allowing for the redefining of terminology and for an allegorical understanding of passages.  In Webster's New World College Dictionary 4th edition, the #4 definition for "liberal" is as follows -- "not restricted to the literal meaning; not strict [a "liberal" interpretation of the Bible]."  (Politically, such is the manner with which liberals are handling the Constitution of the United States.) 

    Whereas, a "literal" interpretation would be one wherein the Scriptures are taken with grammatical and contextual precision, such that the precise wording of Scripture is honored as that which God the Holy Spirit precisely intended.

    Now, the PRECISE wording that the Holy Spirit inspired in Matthew 25:40 is as follows -- "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."  Again, the PRECISE wording that the Holy Spirit inspired in Matthew 25:45 is as follows -- "Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me."

     The precise wording that the Holy Spirit inspired includes the phrase "of these MY BRETHREN" in Matthew 25:40 and the phrase "of these" (a demonstrative pronoun pointing back to the previous group mentioned) in Matthew 25:45.  I did not add those phrases.  The HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD precisely inspired those phrases.  It is only for me to literally and precisely take the Holy Spirit at His word on the matter.  Such is "rightly dividing the word of truth."  Even so, the passage and the judgement about which is prophecies concerns how we treat the Lord's BRETHREN (not any one else).

    I was thinking more of your take on the passage in 2 Thessalonians 3:10. To pull that out of context as a proof text is to take a liberal interpretation or at least imply one. 

  15. 3 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

    Matthew 25:31-46 -- "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: and before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: and he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the leftThen shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.  Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?  When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?  Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?  And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye [personally] have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren [note that the specific recipients here are not just any poor and needy, but are specifically the Lord's own BRETHREN], ye have done it unto me.  Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: for I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.  Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?  Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these [the word "these" is a demonstrative pronoun grammatically indicated the same ones mentioned earlier], ye did it not to me.  And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal."  

    Helping any poor and needy is NOT the relevant factor in this judgment.  Rather, helping the poor and needy OF THE LORD'S BRETHREN is the relevant factor in this judgment.  (Now, the question does remain whether in this context the Lord was speaking concerning His Jewish brethren, or His Christian brethren.  In either case, whether one does or does not help unsaved, non-Jewish poor and needy, it has NO bearing on THIS particular judgment.)  

    I see you take a liberal interpretation of this. I respectfully disagree. 

  16. Do you think God would put many more references into feeding the hungry if he did not mean it? 

    The final judgement says nothing about being judged because you fed and took care of people. Rather judgement is against those who did not feed the hungry. Was God serious about this or just jesting?

  17. 7 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

    In relation to my own God-given responsibility of stewardship over the material wealth that the Lord our God has entrusted to me, I must determine the answer to that matter for each case through the entire body of principles in God's Word concerning work ethic versus laziness, as well as through prayerful submission to the guidance of the indwelling Holy Spirit.

    Tell me about the 'entire body of God's Word' word. What is the criteria for determining whether an individual would be allowed to have food or not? What would you look at in  making such a determination.

  18. 22 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

    Actually, it is best to seek obedience unto God's Holy Word in ALL matters, both in helping the genuine needy, as well as in confronting the unworthy lazy.  The precepts and principles of God's Holy Word are not to be compromised either on the right hand or on the left.  When God's Word states -- "If any WOULD NOT work, NEITHER SHOULD he eat," God's Word is providing a clear instruction concerning our behavior toward the unworthy lazy.  Any individual, group, or program that does not seek a legitimate application of this Biblical principle in its giving policies toward the poor and need is not following God's own standard in the matter.  Obedience to God's Word matters!!

    Just curious, who determines how much or little work meet the criteria for no food?

  19. 18 hours ago, heartstrings said:

    2 Thessalonians 3:10............ if any would not work, neither should he eat................

    And our country is rich enough that no one who is ill or going hungry should be neglected. Yes, there will be some fraud. It is better to err on the side of feeding and aiding people than to let innocent go hungry or to die. 

  20. 2 hours ago, Bouncing Bill said:

    What is said in the final judgement? So it is true you shall be judges on how you treat others and feeding them is one of the criteria in the judgement. 

    Matthew 25:35 

    For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,

    Proverbs 19:17 

    Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

    Proverbs 22:9 

    Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor.

    Proverbs 28:27 

    Whoever gives to the poor will not want, but he who hides his eyes will get many a curse.

    Isaiah 58:10 

    If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday.

    Luke 3:11 

    And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”

     

  21. I agree. There were no programs such as WIC or food stamps when I was a kid. I went to school with kids who were almost always hungry. When I was preschool a person had to have ration stamps to buy many items. I never saw a candy bar or chewing gum until WW II ended.

    We are who we were when and where we grew up. There were poor houses where people were sent. Those days and experiences probably influence my view of helping others through government programs. Yes, there is inefficiency and fraud. That would be true of non-government programs also. I do not see that as an argument against helping others.

    I also believe that churches, synagogues  should cooperate with each other. The church I attend is part of a consortium of 6 churches and synagogues. Together we run a food bank. There is government surplus food as well as food bought by the churches. We also cooperate together housing homeless people during the winter. 

    I find it sad that suddenly a trillion dollars can be found to help business, but not 100 million to help people. I am not saying that businesses do not need help during this time of Covid-19 ... but so do many people caught innocently during this time of pandemic. I have little sympathy for companies who money from the pay protection program (PPP) to repurchase their own stock. I also have no sympathy for companies who gave their executives large bonuses with this money that was supposed to protect workers pay. 

    Our country is rich enough that no one should go to sleep hungry cold. Our country is rich enough that no one should die needlessly for want of medications or surgeries. But it happens. I've seen it at the free clinic where I volunteered for a number of years. 

    We Christians should work hard to help others both materially and spiritually. 

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