Jump to content
Online Baptist Community

LYDIA WESTERN

Members
  • Posts

    27
  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    1

Posts posted by LYDIA WESTERN

  1. 13 minutes ago, LYDIA WESTERN said:

    lol It sounds like you still have Christians there in America; "Christians" anyway. We NEVER get those sort of questions whilst knocking doors here. It's so funny. Australians don't have near the amount of Christian influence. I also worked out that America has about 20-30 times the amount of IB churches in Australia. Tasmania has about 2 or 3 churches. Northern Territory has about 1. Victoria might have 10. South Australia has about 5. Most of them are in New south wales and Queensland. The other three states I cant remember but probably not more than 10. Anyway, all up we have about 250 maybe. And most of them are churches of about 30-70 people. 70 is big. 40 is very very common. And most are seperated by hundreds and thousands of km from each other. Actually, it's lonely.

    actually its more like 150 all up, 200 max. I cant figure out how to edit a post ive already posted?

  2. On 2/3/2018 at 11:28 AM, PastorMatt said:

    This is a question I get asked ALL the time when knocking on doors...... My current answer is I'm a Biblicist in which they usually say that was not one of the answers, and I say they did not give me enough choices. Then we get into the Bible.

    My question is how do you answer this question?

    lol It sounds like you still have Christians there in America; "Christians" anyway. We NEVER get those sort of questions whilst knocking doors here. It's so funny. Australians don't have near the amount of Christian influence. I also worked out that America has about 20-30 times the amount of IB churches in Australia. Tasmania has about 2 or 3 churches. Northern Territory has about 1. Victoria might have 10. South Australia has about 5. Most of them are in New south wales and Queensland. The other three states I cant remember but probably not more than 10. Anyway, all up we have about 250 maybe. And most of them are churches of about 30-70 people. 70 is big. 40 is very very common. And most are seperated by hundreds and thousands of km from each other. Actually, it's lonely.

  3. 2 hours ago, gracelife said:

    Calvinism must be avoided, period! It is heresy, a false gospel that is damning many many people to hell!!!

    Ive noticed that young pele who grow up in calvinist homes very very often struggle with whether they are saved or not. Also, people like David Brainard had some very aweful, heart-rending struggles until he finally came to rest. He said that he couldnt u derstand how a merciful could be just in damning some to hell, and concequently him. He thought he was probablg damned. Its laborious to read pages and pages of this before finally getting to the salvation bit.

  4. On 5/18/2020 at 2:50 AM, DaChaser said:

    I am just saying that one can be saved and be either a calvinist or not, and while cam make for inyeresting discussions, not an issue to divide over! To me, thnose issues are like Deity of Jesus, Trinity, Bible inspration etc!

    Excuse the words of a young woman coming in here, but I think the question is...What kind of beliefs do you want your children to have? What kind of friends? God doesn't ask us to seperate over things just because. He is quite practical and logical, and he knows that we become what we hang around. It pays to ask the same questions the Lord would to himself (if that were possible)..."Now what will happen if I don't tell my children to stay away from this and this and this? Not good. Better include that in the rules".

  5. THE MISTY FLATS
    Wilt thou stumble, O blinded man?
    For shadowed mists about thy feet,
    That wrap around thy head and sweep,
    The darkness of thy mistful land.

    The enemy robs thee of thy whelps,
    Wrapped in tranquil ashen o'er thy sleep,
    And never mourns thy sunless head nor sees,
    Such vulpine robbers by thee knelt.

    Nor heeds alarm from higher ground,
    When from some clearer hill is seen,
    The outline of an enemy,
    That mocked thy denial and plundering,found.

    How terrifying more thy misty paths!
    When stumbling at some darkened tree,
    Wist not it was thine enemy,
    But crushed some frightening sense of harm.

    And thou, O Christian, blissful ignorance,
    Stumbles at each sinful fall,
    Denies was stricken there at all,
    But keeps thy spurious innocence.

    Sin that once was viewed as such,
    Now nestles in a cloke of grey,
    And strikes thy blind, denying face,
    That full denies its bruising touch.

    Sins bitter cup that once abhorred,
    And deadly foe that once was feared,
    Denied through misty conscience years,
    But harms thy beauty as before.

    Now all is pure? I thought it sinful!
    This blindness, light? I thought it dark!
    We float upon a helmless bark,
    Some frightening trance of peaceful.

    Behold the enemy! All around,
    But seems to thee as darkened trees,
    Behold a mire but placid seas,
    And stumbling, as thy level ground.

    Men are mad! I hold it true,
    The lost and saved alike.
    Content to wander in their night,
    And veil the Holy that once they knew.

    Wilt thou dare, O blinded man,
    To lift thy cloke of sin?
    And view thy Holy God within,
    Whom thou hast covered with thy hand?

    A gentle Dove, within thee dwells,
    And grieves such blindness to His hurt!
    Such disregarding of the cursed!
    That threatened thee with hell.

    No more forgive thy blinded state,
    That parades a shallow evenness,
    And steals thy clear and holiness.
    This peaceful trance of pervading grey.

    I pray Thy Spirit, O God, to blow!
    And breath away all blinding mist,
    That hides the truer face of sin,
    And unifies our Christian low.

     

    For thou art pure and thou art holy.
    We know not Thee for we are blind,
    But stumble at each law Divine,
    And disregard as common folly.

    Thy purest estate, thy wretchedness,
    Thy finest coverings are thy nakedness.
    And pious workings are thy pride,
    But know ye not that thou art blind?

    Thy happiest estate is still thy misery!
    Thy richest place is still thy poverty!
    Thy misty flats, a devils mind.
    O know ye not that thou art blind?

    Heaven o'er gazes, wisely and vast.
    And what of our contentment?
    Our happy states of condescension,
    To lower views, unholy paths.

    The Spirit grieveth in our breasts.
    So tragic are His Holy thoughts!
    That we have counted Him for nought,
    And shamed His holiness for less!

     

    A darker view of Holy God,
    More as to a man than He.
    And foolish, we assume to be,
    Accepted in our misty sod.

    For lower views of purest God,
    Bring lower views of what He grieves,
    'Till wandering there in misty seas,
    Our forms of He and sin forgot.

    Blow, O Spirit of God upon our dim!
    And breath away satanic mist,
    That settles on our souls and kissed,
    Like serpent venom across the wind.

    So make our air as Thy pure air,
    And sereph's blush of Thee our own,
    Until one day thou take us home,
    And blindless view Thee perfect there.

    L.J.W

  6. JORDAN

    As I stand in Jordan’s claven depths,

    Make, O Lord, my death another’s spring

    That they might live and joyful sing

    Of Canaan’s shore and deeper rest.

     

    Waters of Adam piled on an heap,

    Whilst prayers upon my slurring lips

    And tears upon my baby cheeks

    Wet rocks beneath my tired feet.

     

    Standing still, no place to go?

    O Lord, a dead man cannot move,

    But waits thy blessings yet to prove 

    And prays though emptied of my flow.

     

    Dry as the rocks beneath my feet

    But praying as the priests beneath the ark,

    Though caring naught but to depart

    When standing ‘side my Jordan heap.

     

    A blessing I have come to be.

    ‘Twas hard to see the glory in my death

    When struggling, O, but for a breath

    God made me water there for thee.

     

    Poured out upon impossible and holy ground,

    Is death such a miracle that in my heart

    Another’s sorrow can depart

    For Spirit’s working through my nothing?

     

    Blessed be the ties that bind me

    In the love of God, my glory,

    That writes my new and deeper story

    And whispers, “Thou art yet to be.”

     

    L.W

  7. Surrender  
    Askest Thou me, "Stretch forth thy knife"?
    Slay my friend and take from me this precious life?
    Laid still and bound on altar of stone,
    She there, and I upon a mountain top alone.
    For this dear friend I prayed,
    And now my God must take away?
    Stretch forth my hand and slay?
    Beloved friend upon this altar laid?

    Surrender, what does it mean?
    A terrible, unjust thing it seems,
    To human eyes who only now sees pain,
    Of human hearts now rent in twain.
    I cannot slay! No strength in me remains,
    For here I am upon his mountain top again.
    A well worn path of many years,
    This track of dust and tears.
    It seems I've felt that every path,
    I've trod here whether near or far,
    Must somehow lead back to this place.
    This place of death, and now to face.


    Now standing still and trembling with Thy words,
    Transfixed with pain my heart astirred,
    I raise my hand though trembling weak,
    Trusting Love though all is bleak.
    Clouds, grey and dim o'r shadow the sky.
    A mountain's wind is rushing by.
    The valleys all around I see.
    But still my face looks up to Thee.
    Thee who too died here for me.
    Thou gavest all, gave all thou couldst.
    Unquestioning I can trust to give this love. I should.

    Unforeseen the Hand that caught,
    Restrained this trembling hand that sort,
    To slay this friend at Thy command,
    Bewildered at Love's harsh demand
    Now standing, knife still in my grip,
    Hands of strength restrain each wrist,
    Reach out and take a vice like hold.
    Unable to move within this arms enfold.
    Now looking up with tear-stained face,
    Bewilderment, now confusion in its place.
    Gazed up with clouded vision and saw,
    Love. His face filled with delight and soft,
    The gaze that met my eyes upon that mountain top.
    "My child, now I know thou lovest me.
    More, yes more, than ought of these.
    All thy dearest must come to this place,
    And to my hands surrender to take."

    Every road of hope, desire, leads up to Calvary's hill.
    High and lofty visions too lead up this mountain, still.
    Here, all that is strongly claimed,
    Is brought and on the altar lain.
    Not the things we care not for,
    But all the things we love, adore.
    To own, surrender not; to keep,
    Will only cause our hearts to weep,
    Distract when disappointment,need,
    Cause us to reel like boats on drunken sea.
    Things of earth will move,
    Our trust in earthly things do prove.
    Merciful the Hand that takes away,
    Then lends to us from day to day.
    And meters out what's best and perfect,
    The gifts we gave Him yesterday.

     

    But still it hurts to lay all down,
    To gaze upon a lover bound.
    Not knowing if this time I must,
    Goodbye this precious friend, and trust,
    My God knows best,
    And in Him rest.
    O how hard it is to die!
    In Him to dwell though crucified.
    Yet clinging tight to Calvary's love.
    We hear, "All is well" from heaven above.
    To slay or to keep, all things work for good.
    Why should I fret? Why should I weep? For look,
    Love is here.

  8. My Anchor Holds

    Where troubled sea and billow form,

    There is a Rock within thy storm.

    When lovers fall as each new tear,

    The moments taken and stolen years,

    There is a cleft below thy waves,

    A love secure with each new day.

     

    When upon life's changing waves,

    We fear our ship might drift away,

    An anchor is caste behind thy bow,

    So little, and no strength. But now,

    It sinks below a mighty storm,

    Tossing,betrayal, weariness formed.

    And finds its rest within a cleft,

    This riven Rock, and there to rest.

     

    Faith,like lonely little anchors. Caste,

    But knows this Rock to hold them fast.

    'Tis not to fear what strength of faith,

    But What it grips, this Rock of grace.

    My anchor holds!

     

    These, our ships upon life's sea,

    Toss and mourn our sorrows to be freed.

    But rest is found when through the storm,

    We come. And night, it flees our breaking dawn.

    Sorrow endures, but for a night,

    And joy, it comes with each new light.

    And sweetly from the ground there springs,

    New flowers our God will kindly bring.

     

    As mournful sparrow upon the ground,

    Bereft of song and happy sounds,

    Thy God will see then gently bring,

    And heal thy songbird's broken wing.

     

    Here my cry O God; attend unto my prayer.

    From the ends of the earth will I cry unto thee.

    When my heart is overwhelmed, lead me,

    To the rock that is higher than I.

    L.J.W

  9. Deliver Us, O Lord
    Deliver us, O Lord, from the snare of the fowler,
    And silence every noisome pestilence.
    Quench each fiery dart and take us hence,
    To deeper rest from hour to hour.

    Deliver us from fleshly strivings,
    The torment of our restless souls,
    That drives away our peace in God,
    And leaves a soldier's sense of numbing.

    Deliver us from hardened hearts,
    That prides a stoic creed,
    That numbly fights and numbly bleeds,
    Away each Spirit's sense of love.

    We would with Thee within the fight,
    Rest within Thy Spirit, Lord Jesus.
    Strength to soften, not to harden,
    The heart that numbed through human might.

    We would with Thee within the yoke,
    Tread each mile patiently,
    And never there assume to be,
    Some mighty force by will envoked.

    The wrath of man no righteousness envoked,
    Though heaped the proof of words upon words.
    Icy truth precisely incurred,
    Upon the heart that wept and broke.

    Keep us in Thy love, Lord Jesus,
    Mingle truth and mercy there,
    For our hearts, they proudly dared,
    To fight for truth in carnal fever.

    Teach us the mystery of resting fight,
    Thy tender Spirit in our hearts,
    That softens every numbing part,
    And turns to rest our bitter might.

    L.J.W

  10. On 2/23/2020 at 1:46 PM, TomB said:

    All Israel will he saved yes. But who is Israel. A political nation? A nation with borders? Romans says a Jew is not one outwardly but inwardly. All believers are part of the nation of Israel. In another place it says the Israel of God. Moses said to circumcise the foreskins of your heart and be no more stiffnecked. That is more important than the physical act.  Jesus praised strangers with faith more than many Israelites. These are the true Israel of God and they will all be saved. There will be sheep and goats at the last day from the beginning of creation to the last day.  The rapture is at the last day. There will be no millennium on this sin cursed earth. Christ will come back with power and great glory, every eye shall see him. This is the last day, Judgement Day and the rapture all in the same day.  The next life will be the new heavens and the new earth.  I wouldn’t be so concerned about confusing tribulation and “the” tribulation, etc.  Jesus said immediately after “the” tribulation in those days the sun shall be darkened. He is speaking to his people that they will still be here and he commanded to remember lots wife. She looked back at the destruction and became a pillar of salt. Our hearts should be in heaven, not the world.   

    When Jesus says, “And they shall look upon me whom they have pierced,” is he talking to Christians or to that particular group of people living between the walls of Jerusalem across from the Mt. of Olives?

    Second question. If the people he’s referring to are that particular group living between those four walls, then is that the same group that the Russian/Muslim invasion is going to march against and then God will destroy 1/6 of their armies and “in that day shall all Israel be saved, and they shall know that I am the Lord”? Because if those people (whoever they are) between those four walls are saved then please WHO are the people standing at the base of the Mt of Olives when Jesus appears who had pierced him? Presumably the last lot living between those four walls got Raptured because they all got saved before the mid-rapture.

     

  11. 15 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

    I would love to come to Australia and have the opportunity to serve the Lord...that's one of my personal dreams!

    By the way...I already have personal and first-hand knowledge of Emus (long story)! 🤣

    However, my wife is afraid that one of those evil Australian spiders will bite her (or one of us)...so she would rather us move to Florida...where alligators and boa constrictors help themselves to people's backyards and swimming pools. 🤔  😮

    lol don’t worry. No one has died from a spider bite since 1979.

    There are roughly about 3000 snake bites per year in Australia but on average only one or two fatalities. 

  12. Do American’s love Australians too? I wish we had more churches like you do.

    I’m a pastor’s daughter. Number eight in a line of nine children, A.C.E homeschooled, had to flee the state we lived in because child protection services were after us kids (ever heard of that? My sister put us in. Nice girl), I.B conservative Baptist, the whole bit. I love Andrew Murray, F.B Meyer, Francis Schaffer, my parents have been around for three hundred and ninety-five years (actually Dad’s in his seventies), been through every kind of church problem you can think of and met every kind of Christian nut imaginable (Pharisees included). Don’t you love those people that think even sugar’s sinful. 

    Anyway, There are about 180 I.B churches in Australia. Most are in NSW, QLD and VIC. There are about 3 in Tasmania and 1 in Northern Territory. There are about 9 in South Australia (where I was born), 5 of which are in Adelaide city. My Dad started the first I.B church in South Australia about forty some years ago after coming back from bible college in Springfield Massouri (sorry can’t spell). He was actually raised church of Christ and had never heard of the I.Bs because there were hardly any in Australia back then. Actually there was one church called Calvary Baptist in S.A that had been going a year before he started his but he was almost the first anyway. Might aswell have been, there wasn’t anyone around. It was called Northside Baptist Church. Now my brother Simeon Western pastors the church. It wasn’t planned. There have been other pastors between Dad and him but that’s what ended up happening. We actually live in Bathurst, N.S.W now. 

    The churches here are typically between 60-80 people. A hundred or more is considered big. Churches of 30-50 are very common also. Apart from the cities, churches are typically hundreds of KM apart. America has about 25 times the number of I.B churches as Australia. I believe you have around 9,200 or something like that. Australia has about 180 - 200 maybe that any one directory is aware of. Certainly not thousands anyway. It’s really lonely, actually. There are some hidden flowers growing in this desert. Good ones too. The sort of people that you look at and say, “Wow, why hasn’t anyone found you yet?” But Ill be honest and say that Americans are better looking than Australians I think (not that looks are everything. I’m just half asleep and thought I’d say it). Anyway, off topic.

    So if anyone wants to be a missionary to Australia, you can come and you can meet my family too. We’re in Bathurst, N.S.W and have about fourty-fifty people in our country church. But we have a really nice home and we’re normal by the way. The sort of people that you could talk for hours with about church problems over a cup of tea? Great isn’t it. 

    Anyway, I hope some Americans will love Australians and I’ll be sure to love you back if you ever come. 

    God bless.

     

    •  
  13. On 12/27/2019 at 6:28 AM, PastorMatt said:

    I have come to the same conclusion that the context of this passage is talking about worshiping idols.  While I respect those that hold to a no tree conviction, I disagree with it. I hear a lot about the paganism of it and that part I get, but I have yet to see someone not have tree because of its pagan background and hold that same conviction with our current calendar.... and don't get me started on the cross. 😂

    Lol Yes, I think I agree. Although, maybe Jeremiah was just saying that gold covered Christmas trees were not acceptable for the Christmas celebration. I wonder if they had turkey for Christmas dinner or maybe it was goat as a sort of middle eastern adaption to the Roman Catholic version of Christmas, or the American version of Christmas.

  14. On 2/1/2020 at 5:28 AM, PastorMatt said:

    100% agree.

    My father is an I.B Pastor here in Australia. I’ll just throw my ten cents worth in. My Dad attended a Bible College in Springfield Massouri. That’s how he became an I.B. He thinks that Bible College is good for giving a man a balanced view from different pastors, rather than only ever hearing their Dad preach, for instance. America has about 20-25 times the amount of I.B churches as in Australia. We are typically small isolated churches with hundreds and thousands of km between us. Actually, it’s very lonely. Two churches in one town is unheard of. Sydney has the most all in one place. Maybe 10-15. Typical church size is maybe 60. Small is 20 or 30, and there are a lot of those. Big is a hundred or more.

    Anyway, all that to say, when a man grows up in a church of thirty people and only gets to hear another preacher once a year at a conference, and rarely visits another church, the chances of going a bit wacko is more possible because it’s just him and his brain. Isolation is not always gold. I know some good boys coming up the line (precious few), but I do have some real concerns. There’s so so much they don’t know. My Dad has pastored three churches and is in his seventies (I’m number 8 in a line of 9 children. All homeschooled ACE), so I have so much to draw on with him. And I also went to college for a year. 

    Anyway, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of the child protection services targeting homeschoolers, but that happened to us through my backslidden older siblings. Out of the blue we had to flee the state and leave everything behind. It was really scary but God just used it for good in the end. My Dad started the first I.B church in South Australia (actually there was one other going for about a year before Northside though). We’ve got about 150 I.B churches in Australia maybe. There’s about one in the Northern Territory, maybe two in W.A, three in Tasmania? Most are N.S.W, QLD and VIC. South australia has maybe five good ones all up and they’re mostly in Adelaide where my brother Simeon’s church is. Australia is only about 7 square km smaller than the States. But we have less people because only about 10% of Australia is habitable. America has about 30,500 people to every one church. We’ve got more like a couple hundred thousand per one church or more.

  15. On 2/21/2020 at 8:26 PM, TomB said:

    At the LAST trump the Bible teaches. And they are the ones that came out of great tribulation it says in Revelation.  Jesus doesn’t come back twice to get his people.  He that shall endure unto the end the same shall be saved.  But the good news is that he will never leave us nor forsake us.  He said look up for your redemption draws nigh.  Though the mountains and hills be cast into the sea we will not be moved. He is our Rock and salvation.    Most people are deceived in this matter not understanding the nature of the tribulation or the book of Revelation.  We look for a new heavens and a new earth as it states in Isaiah and 2nd Peter; not a millennial rule on this sin cursed earth. 

    I’m sorry, but there’s no good news for the Christian during the tribulation. A multitude from all kindreds and tongues and nations are going to be beheaded. And just on the side? Try this.

    Second seal - a great world war.

    Third - begins the suffering of famine and inflation (the aftermath of war).

    Fourth seal - war results in death, but in this case it totals one-fourth of the people and living creatures. By today’s population standards, that would amount to ONE AND A HALF BILLION PEOPLE. Whoops daysy.

    Fifth - so many Christians slain that they can’t be numbered. 

    Sixth - mighty earthquake, the like of which has never been experienced. It is so severe that people call on the rocks to fall on them.

    Seventh - introduces the Seven Trumpet Judgments, ending the first quarter of the Tribulation period and preparing for an even worse period called the “day of His [God’s] wrath.”

    First trumpet - one-THIRD of all trees and green grass being burned up by hail, fire, and blood cast upon the earth. 

    Second trumpet - a great mountain of sulfur falling into the sea and destroying a THIRD-part of the sea and all living creatures in it and a third of the shipping vessels.

    Third - causes a great star (or meteor) called Wormword (or “bitter”) to fall on the fountains of water and a THIRD of rivers to turn bitter, resulting in the deaths of millions.

    Fourth - one-THIRD less sun, moonlight, and stars, extending the darkness of night.

    Fifth trumpet - introduces hideous demon-like creatures such as scorpions and locusts out of the bottomless pit. Not able to kill men, they torture them so badly that they “will seek death and will not find it.”

    Sixth trumpet - introduces two hundred million horsemen (demon spirit-like death angels), who kill one-THIRD of the people. This will occur between the fortieth and forty-second month of the first part of the Tribulation, which brings to 50 PERCENT the population that is destroyed by God before the midpoint of the Tribulation. These individuals have taken the mark of the Beast and are considered incorrigibles.

    Since estimates of upwards of a quarter of those living at that time still be saved under the preaching of the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation 7:9, it is possible that 75 PERCENT  of the population 25 PERCENT by martyrdom) will have been destroyed during the first half of the Tribulation period.

    So horrendous, so terrible that we can’t even imagine. And all in the space of three years. No wonder God said that unless he came again that there would be no flesh left on earth. Imagine at the end of all this saying....but this isn’t God’s wrath. It’s ALL God’s wrath. No WONDER the angel said. “These are they that have come out of [THE] great tribulation”. Greek Word definite article. 

    A mark of false doctrine is when they take a few verses and then wrench everything else in to fit. The last trump referring to the last trumpet judgment, for example. Didn’t anyone think that Revelation hadn’t even been written yet when Paul wrote that? John hadn’t had the vision yet, so how could Paul be referring to it?

    Revelation was A.D 96. 1 Corinthians was A.D 59. The revelation was to John for the first time. This was all completely new to John because he asked questions throughout. Thus “The Revelation”. Wouldn’t be a Revelation if he already knew about it all from Paul.

  16. 2 hours ago, TomB said:

    Etc.We are appointed to tribulation but not wrath.  Don’t confuse the Scriptures with many different last trumps or throne judgements.  The sun will be darkened when they shall say “peace and safety”.  I look for that new heavens and a new earth.  The Day of the Lord is at hand when he shall give a shout. The greatest earthquake ever will also commence.  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with him to meet the Lord in the air.  It’s really not complicated.    

    Revelation 7:9,14
    After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; ...These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. greek Word is “THE great tribulation”. And this is still in the first half. 

    And yes, there will be multitudes of Christians on earth during the tribulation who will be converted. And these same multitudes will be beheaded. Write down on a piece of paper all the things “us Christians” will go through. If the first half of the tribulation isn’t wrath, then what is it? 

    You cant hang your hat on one assumption that the trumpet Paul was referring to in Thessalonians is the last trumpet judgement. The last trump was sounded when it was time to move camp. The first trumpet got everyone packing their tents up and then there were some other calls and then the last trump was when everyone left. Paul is using a picture like he often does. Anyway, it’s not clear enough to hang a whole doctrine on. Actually, Revelation was A.D 96. 1 Corinthians was A.D 59. How could Paul be referring to the last trump of a vision that hadn’t happened yet?

    When the Lord said “and then shall be great tribulation”, in the Greek there is not the definite article “THE great tribulation” as present in the other tribulation mentions. Things will ramp up, yes, but once again, you can’t hang a whole doctrine on it and then try to wrench all the other scriptures around to fit it.

    And besides, if the rapture happened at the mid-point, all of Israel would be raptured because they’re saved by that point at the time of the Russian-Muslim invasion. There would not BE an Israel. Because the Bible says that ALL Israel will be saved in that day when the Lord defends them. Israel as a nation wouldn’t exist anymore for when the Lord comes again. 

    Also, would there be any sheep left to divide from the goats at the end? Nothing but goats left on earth, right? For the last half?

  17. Yes, I was actually thinking the same thing. David Cloud has done an extremely good job of trying to correct them, but they’re Arabs and it’s hard to change their mind. It’s a shame really. I know that Mr. Cloud and I both enjoyed the meetings that they had with him a few months ago. We had some good chats together. Actually, it was my brother, Simeon, who found out about it and let Mr. Cloud know. They’ve been back and forwards about it.

    I was just interested to hear what anyone else had to add. I think you’re right though. They didn’t have a good understanding of pre-trib to start with. But false doctrine is also leaven and there is something appealing about it. It’s strange. 

    I saw one of their “study sheets” that they had done up. They took Matthew 24 and ran it down the page chronologically and then added to the right all the verses from Thessalonians and Corinthians etc. One of the older men in their church is an old pastor and prophecy is his sweet spot. But they just kept the doctrinal “study” as a secret from him and the other older men of the faith and then came out with it after a year of studying it in the closet. But they actually had let a post-trib man onto membership and that’s how it started. The pastor said that he didn’t want to see books or charts and that “David Cloud’s books aren’t inspired”. But then he wants everyone to read the charts that he comes up with. 

    He’s coming out super heated and reactive. It’s really really shocking to see. So weird. He and his two right hand men are Arabs. Not that I have anything against Arabs, but it’s a hot blooded mix. It’s either very good or very bad.

  18. Thankyou Mr. Young and Allan.

    The funny thing is they have kept the distinction between church and Israel.

    That’s interesting about your friend deputising for Australia. There are about 180 I.B churches in Australia. Most are in NSW, QLD and VIC. There are about 3 in Tasmania and 1 in Northern Territory. There are about 9 in South Australia (where I was born), 5 of which are in Adelaide city. My Dad started the first I.B church in South Australia about forty some years ago after coming back from bible college in Springfield Massouri (sorry can’t spell). He was actually raised church of Christ and had never heard of the I.Bs because there were hardly any in Australia back then. Actually there was one church called Calvary Baptist in S.A that had been going a year before he started his but he was almost the first anyway. Might aswell have been, there wasn’t anyone around. It was called Northside Baptist Church. Now my brother Simeon Western pastors the church. It wasn’t planned. There have been other pastors between Dad and him but that’s what ended up happening. We actually live in Bathurst, N.S.W now. 

    The churches here are typically between 60-80 people. A hundred or more is considered big. Churches of 30-50 are very common also. Apart from the cities, churches are typically hundreds of KM apart. America has about 25 times the number of I.B churches as Australia. I believe you have around 9,200 or something like that. Australia has about 180 - 200 maybe that any one directory is aware of. Certainly not thousands anyway. 

    There is not the same “circulation of the saints” over here, so the people you keep are those you win. Church growth here is quite slow and it is not because the pastors are necessarily doing anything wrong. So your brother in the Lord needn’t feel discouraged if it is not a fast growth. I know American missionaries that have been pastoring a flock of about twenty to thirty for years. Others have more but most churches are under a hundred. 

    When Dad came back from the States, he did what he was taught to do when doing soul winning. But he couldn’t understand why people would pray and then not be interested and not come back. It worked well in the States. He eventually worked out that the Australians don’t have the Biblical background that Americans do. Aussies are serious but there is a greater risk of “picking green fruit” over here. Also, getting them to come forward at an invitation often scared them off too. So he ended up getting them to just stand where they were f they had prayed and then sit back down. He focussed a bit more on getting them to come to church a bit and doing some home visits rather than pushing them all through too quickly. Unless they seemed really ready of course. That’s just something to watch out for. I’m very pleased with his desire to come, however. I hope we will get a chance to meet him sometime. It’s not too far fetched because like i said, there aren’t a lot of us.

    anyway, sorry I’m off topic. Maybe I should repost this as “evangelism in Australia” lol

    I’ll ask my questions in the post trib thing in a little bit. I have to run and teach piano for now.

  19. This is my first time on here. I’m an Australian IB Pastor’s daughter. There’s smoke everywhere over here, just by the way. My friends house burnt down the other day.

    One of the churches that we have had an interface with have suddenly come out as Post-Trib. If anyone knows David Cloud, he was out here just recently and did a full series of meetings with them and then found out AFTERWARDS (from my pastor brother) that they’ve been “studying” the subject of prophecy all year, and hey presto! The church is in for the guillotein. I’ve got friends in that church, and now they’re telling me they’re post-trib. It’s a bit lonely here in Australia. Most of our churches are hundreds of km apart. Apparently the States sometimes has more than one IB church in a big town! I can’t believe it! They must have more friends too then to make up for any losses.

    I was just wondering if anyone has any helpful thoughts on a post-trib view (or pre-trib view, depending how you look at it).

    As far as I can see, we are not appointed to wrath (and that meaning the whole 7 year tribulation). God will keep us “from the hour of temptation” that will come upon the whole earth”. 

     

     

×
×
  • Create New...